MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[limbo]

Davis is a much better defender and rebounder than LeBron.

Lebron is a much better offensive player than Davis.

If the Lakers has the best record in the league, they might give MVP to Lebron and DPOY to davis.

Other than that, they will still votes from each other.

Agree, but if i was Davis, and i win the DPOY award, WHILE also averaging almost 30 ppg on solid efficiency, i should be winning the MVP award as well, otherwise i feel it's a travesty.

[igorbianch]

Davis is a much better defender and rebounder than LeBron.

Lebron is a much better offensive player than Davis.

If the Lakers has the best record in the league, they might give MVP to Lebron and DPOY to davis.

Other than that, they will still votes from each other.

Agree, but if i was Davis, and i win the DPOY award, WHILE also averaging almost 30 ppg on solid efficiency, i should be winning the MVP award as well, otherwise i feel it's a travesty.

I dont think its a travesty.

Looking at ppg is a bit off because the majority of DAvis points are assisted. He isnt elite creating his own shot.

Im not saying he doesnt have a merit in those points, he does, but its completely different than LeBron attacking the rim like a running back and putting an absurd amount of pressure on the defense.

Although Davis deserves the MVP over LeBron right now because its the defense whats winning them games.

[limbo]

Like i said, i agree, but you gotta realize that 99% of the people don't view basketball in that way, including voters and players themselves.

If you are someone like Davis, and people crown you as the best defensive player in the league + you're the best scorer on your team on top of that, averaging close to 30 ppg... you'd feel like you deserve MVP regardless of what analysis people would try to spin...

[JN61]

Too early to have meaningful discussion. I'll wait 10-20% of the season before looking into these things.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Karl Anthony Towns was my frontrunner, and then he got into a fight with Joel Embiid. His numbers right now doesn't really separate themselves from the other candidates, but the game he got suspended in brought down his averages. Before that he was putting up:

32ppg, 13.3rpg, 5apg, 2.7spg, 2bpg on .659TS% shooting. On top of that he's doing all that on much improved defense. If he can keep that up while continuing to lead his team to wins then he'll be in the thick of the conversation.

I don't think it is sustainable but he is a damn good player. I think the second part will disqualify him. Don't see the Wolves getting HCA or even top 6. Unless he puts up historical numbers it will be hard to justify on a team that low in the standings with Emiid/Giannis wrecking havoc on 55+ win teams.

[JN61]

Davis is a much better defender and rebounder than LeBron.

Lebron is a much better offensive player than Davis.

If the Lakers has the best record in the league, they might give MVP to Lebron and DPOY to davis.

Other than that, they will still votes from each other.

Agree, but if i was Davis, and i win the DPOY award, WHILE also averaging almost 30 ppg on solid efficiency, i should be winning the MVP award as well, otherwise i feel it's a travesty.

I dont think its a travesty.

Looking at ppg is a bit off because the majority of DAvis points are assisted. He isnt elite creating his own shot.

Im not saying he doesnt have a merit in those points, he does, but its completely different than LeBron attacking the rim like a running back and putting an absurd amount of pressure on the defense.

Although Davis deserves the MVP over LeBron right now because its the defense whats winning them games.

Lets get this right. Regardless who the player is; if they manage to average ~30 points, take team to high seed and be DPOY on top of that it would be straight robbery for him not to win it... That is Hercules of an effort on both sides of the floor and should be awarded rightfully in such case.

[JordansBulls]

With Lebron and AD numbers it will be more like Kobe/Shaq from 2001-2003 where they both had elite numbers but neither won mvp unless they are winning like 67 games or something, but still tough to decide who would be MVP. Does it make sense to give it to Lebron if AD's numbers are just as good and the Lakers failed to make the playoffs the year before?

[Gooner]

Put Kyrie in the poll. If KAT and Doncic belong there, then he definitely does.

[Yuri36]

Put Kyrie in the poll. If KAT and Doncic belong there, then he definitely does.

Agree

[Forte IV]

If we're going by PER Kawhi and Giannis have been the best two so far. But obviously there's more than PER

[LikeABosh]

Giannis can't hit a 3 or a FT but his per36 stats are absurd:

31.5 pts | 15.9 rbd | 8.4 ast | 1.3 stl | 1.8 blk | .639 TS%

Lots of turnovers and fouls though

[therealbig3]

Agree, but if i was Davis, and i win the DPOY award, WHILE also averaging almost 30 ppg on solid efficiency, i should be winning the MVP award as well, otherwise i feel it's a travesty.

I dont think its a travesty.

Looking at ppg is a bit off because the majority of DAvis points are assisted. He isnt elite creating his own shot.

Im not saying he doesnt have a merit in those points, he does, but its completely different than LeBron attacking the rim like a running back and putting an absurd amount of pressure on the defense.

Although Davis deserves the MVP over LeBron right now because its the defense whats winning them games.

Lets get this right. Regardless who the player is; if they manage to average ~30 points, take team to high seed and be DPOY on top of that it would be straight robbery for him not to win it... That is Hercules of an effort on both sides of the floor and should be awarded rightfully in such case.

Yeah, but the 30ppg is the result of LeBron's creation (primarily), it's a byproduct of LeBron.

It's offense vs defense. Davis is their best defensive player, LeBron is their best offensive player. Davis is a good offensive player, and LeBron is a good defensive player. How are we quantifying how good? I'm not sure, but I think the Lakers would be worse off without LeBron right now than without Davis.

And you can argue that Davis hasn't even been the best defender on his own team.

[Wilber85]

Throw Booker on that .

Take off Harden.

Dude is playing like crap and only scoring because he avg 20 + Free Throws a game.

I can see a future stat

Harden : 40 points / 10 assists / 5 rebounds

0/10 FG 0/10 3 pt 40/40 Free Throw.

Ruining the game.

[Joey Wheeler]

I dont think its a travesty.

Looking at ppg is a bit off because the majority of DAvis points are assisted. He isnt elite creating his own shot.

Im not saying he doesnt have a merit in those points, he does, but its completely different than LeBron attacking the rim like a running back and putting an absurd amount of pressure on the defense.

Although Davis deserves the MVP over LeBron right now because its the defense whats winning them games.

Lets get this right. Regardless who the player is; if they manage to average ~30 points, take team to high seed and be DPOY on top of that it would be straight robbery for him not to win it... That is Hercules of an effort on both sides of the floor and should be awarded rightfully in such case.

Yeah, but the 30ppg is the result of LeBron's creation (primarily), it's a byproduct of LeBron.

It's offense vs defense. Davis is their best defensive player, LeBron is their best offensive player. Davis is a good offensive player, and LeBron is a good defensive player. How are we quantifying how good? I'm not sure, but I think the Lakers would be worse off without LeBron right now than without Davis.

And you can argue that Davis hasn't even been the best defender on his own team.

He scored 30 while surrounded by trash in New Orleans too. Davis isn't just a "good" offensive player, he's the best offensive big ever in the context of today's game; he can do his damage and get his 30 points mostly off the ball, thus allowing the offense to run through his guards and wings (which has proven to be ideal). His ability to score an efficient 30 off cuts to the basket, spotting up, offensive rebounding, etc... ensures there's no diminishing returns with a guy like Lebron. He can also take over in isolation if needed, though he's at his most dangerous working off the ball.

Lebron GOAT tier on offense, very good on defense; Davis GOAT tier on defense, great on offense paints a better picture. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean Davis is better as Lebron's ability to anchor an elite offense is more valuable than the ability to anchor an elite defense.

The Lakers as currently constructed would be worse off without Lebron because they don't really have any other good offensive creators.

[Zummba]

Season stats:

Fantasy PPG:
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo 59.7
2. Andre Drummond 57.2
3. Anthony Davis 55.3
4. LeBron James 54.2
5. Luka Doncic 53.7

EFF:
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo 37
2. Andre Drummond 34.8
3. Kyrie Irving 32
3. Luka Doncic 32
5. Anthony Davis 31.7

[iggymcfrack]

I feel like this stretch where Paul George is injured could actually really help Kawhi’s chances. Instead of the narrative being that the overlapping of superstar talent overpowered the league, it will be that Kawhi made the Clippers the best team because he’s the best player and PG is just the cherry on top. Will help his numbers too. Kinda feels like he’s the front runner right now actually.

[zimpy27]

LeBron or AD right now.

Both dominating on both sides of the court.

[Jadoogar]

I would say LeBron, AD, Embiid, Giannis and KAT are the front runners, not necessarily in that order.

LeBron and AD even if they keep up this rate of play for the whole season (or improve) are unlikely to win mvp because they'll steal votes from each other. Unless the Lakers are really dominant and end up being the only 60 win team. In that case, I think LeBron would win it based on a lifetime achievement type of vote. Hasn't won MVP since 2013, despite being the best player in almost all the seasons since.

No Kawhi? leading arguably the best team in the league?

[Crives]

Why is Booker not in this list?

27.4 pts (per 36)
50% from 3 on 5.7 attempts
65.1% TS%
5.2 assists (per 36)

Best player on the team with the team with the best point differential, only top 10 offense and defense, while playing one of the toughest schedules. Was super clutch leading to wins against the best projected team in each conference.

Oh and he plays defense now that he doesn’t have to do everything on offense.

[Benedict_Boozer]

I feel like this stretch where Paul George is injured could actually really help Kawhi’s chances. Instead of the narrative being that the overlapping of superstar talent overpowered the league, it will be that Kawhi made the Clippers the best team because he’s the best player and PG is just the cherry on top. Will help his numbers too. Kinda feels like he’s the front runner right now actually.

Kawhi is the front runner but with load management, don't think he plays enough games. I could see him sitting out 15+ games easily. If he didn't it might be his to lose.