Is Michael Jordan the Greatest Team Sports Athlete of All Time?

[Pg81]

He is not even the greatest team sport athlete in basketball.

[J___Av]

The gap between Gretzky and every other hockey player is greater than any other GOAT in any other team sport.

True, but in terms of global impact and culture he’s not as high as Jordan, Pele and Ruth.

Gretzky statistically blows the 2nd greatest hockey player out of the water, but just like Wilt we shouldn’t focus only on the numbers. Gretzky is the greatest hockey player of all time, but Lemieux, Orr, & Howe aren’t far behind in terms of dominance and impact on the game.

Totally agree with your take. I'm actually one of those people who loved mario lemieux and he will always be the best hockey player to me.

If we went by stats only then Kareem/wilt could be considered better than jordan.

Wilt is more a Howie Morenz than Wayne. Dominate in an era where the sport is and league is still new. Wilts playoff stats also drop drastically. Jordan is tied for highest PPG ever and is 11 PPG higher than Wilt in the playoffs. Jordan's stats are just as impressive as Wilts and Kareem's are more because of longevity. Gretzky was winning scoring titles by 80 plus **** points. He has 9 heart trophies. 4 more than Howe and and 5 more than Mario. He is the only player to break 200 points and he did it 4 freaking times. He has more assists than the next highest guy has points. He also undeniably had a much bigger impact on Hockey than Mario or Howe combined. Him getting traded to LA completely changed the NHL forever. Wilt is in no way close to the statistical dominance that Gretzky had. Hell Bill Russell won more MVPs than Wilt did in that era.

Mario and Howe are VERY far behind Gretzky in dominance and impact and its not even close. We saw prime Mario on the same team and line as Gretzky and as great as Mario was, Gretzky was clearly the better player. The only player that is close to Gretzky's dominance in Hockey is Bobby Orr (and MAYBE Dominik Hasek) but he had his career cut short

You are really downplaying the impact Gretzky had in Hockey. He didn't have the global and culture impact as Jordan, Pele and Ruth because Hockey is not as popular as baseball, basketball and soccer. But he easily meant as much to Hockey as those three did to there sports, but he was way more dominate

[Pg81]

True, but in terms of global impact and culture he’s not as high as Jordan, Pele and Ruth.

Gretzky statistically blows the 2nd greatest hockey player out of the water, but just like Wilt we shouldn’t focus only on the numbers. Gretzky is the greatest hockey player of all time, but Lemieux, Orr, & Howe aren’t far behind in terms of dominance and impact on the game.

Totally agree with your take. I'm actually one of those people who loved mario lemieux and he will always be the best hockey player to me.

If we went by stats only then Kareem/wilt could be considered better than jordan.

Wilt is more a Howie Morenz than Wayne. Dominate in an era where the sport is and league is still new. Wilts playoff stats also drop drastically. Jordan is tied for highest PPG ever and is 11 PPG higher than Wilt in the playoffs. Jordan's stats are just as impressive as Wilts and Kareem's are more because of longevity. Gretzky was winning scoring titles by 80 plus **** points. He has 9 heart trophies. 4 more than Howe and and 5 more than Mario. He is the only player to break 200 points and he did it 4 freaking times. He has more assists than the next highest guy has points. He also undeniably had a much bigger impact on Hockey than Mario or Howe combined. Him getting traded to LA completely changed the NHL forever. Wilt is in no way close to the statistical dominance that Gretzky had. Hell Bill Russell won more MVPs than Wilt did in that era.

Mario and Howe are VERY far behind Gretzky in dominance and impact and its not even close. We saw prime Mario on the same team and line as Gretzky and as great as Mario was, Gretzky was clearly the better player. The only player that is close to Gretzky's dominance in Hockey is Bobby Orr (and MAYBE Dominik Hasek) but he had his career cut short

You are really downplaying the impact Gretzky had in Hockey. He didn't have the global and culture impact as Jordan, Pele and Ruth because Hockey is not as popular as baseball, basketball and soccer. But he easily meant as much to Hockey as those three did to there sports, but he was way more dominate

[J___Av]

Also, MJ was an all time defender, while Gretzky was not known for defense at all.

Yeah...its not like he was a penalty killing specialist or the all time leader in shorthanded goals and takeaways or anything..

Oh wait, he was. Gretzky was an amazing defender who never got credit for it because people focused on his ridiculous offensive dominance. The guys defensive stick work was second to none

[J___Av]

The gap between Gretzky and every other hockey player is greater than any other GOAT in any other team sport.

Hasek is every bit as great a goalie as Gretzky is a forward and his 98 Olympics is greater than any single Gretzky accomplishment

Hasek would get a lot more credit if he was Canadian. He is easily the best goalie ever. But getting ridiculously hot in a few one game eliminations is not as impressive as winning the scoring title by 80 points

[Air Apparent]

cristiano ronaldo has dominated all 3 different major leagues in europe and has won 2 national trophies with sub-par teammates comparatively to the competition (internationally speaking, not domestically)

along with getting robbed of one ballon d'or

most of those guys on the list i assume played in one system in one league on one team their entire careers

[tanuki1031]

It's 1) Jordan 2) Gretzky in terms of skill, achievement, sport impact, and global impact.

NBA basketball is the only professional sport that has global penetration of any significance. That alone would default Jordan as the perceived sports GOAT.

Gretzky set and still owns the majority of NHL records and single-handedly brought hockey into the US when he was traded to the LA Kings. You wouldn't have USA hockey if the trade didn't happen. This was a clear cultural impact that had an equivalent financial impact (NHL league avg revenues tripled to around $1.5B during this time while NBA revenues were still ~400M).

People wear shoes, not skates everyday and basketball is much more accessible than hockey. Simple as that.
Every hockey player in the world knows Gretzky and every athlete knows #99. When you have players from other sports donning #23 and #99, it's clear what they symbolize.

The Messi/Pele/Ronaldo didn't play or dominate in the best leagues nor at global stages. Do you know who the GOAT international scorer is? It's Christine Sinclair (CAN) who overtook Abby Wombach (US) over a year ago. No man is even close to their goal totals.

BPL/La Liga, NFL, MLB no one from any of these leagues even comes to Jordan and Gretzky.

[Kobe187]

Also, MJ was an all time defender, while Gretzky was not known for defense at all.

Yeah...its not like he was a penalty killing specialist or the all time leader in shorthanded goals and takeaways or anything..

Oh wait, he was. Gretzky was an amazing defender who never got credit for it because people focused on his ridiculous offensive dominance. The guys defensive stick work was second to none

Gretzky actually was a bit weak defensively; he was poor in board battles and overall checking. Craig MacTavish & Mark Messier had to take the important face-offs for the Oilers. Still the Greatest hockey player ever, but to say he was elite defensively is a bit of a stretch.

[jinxed]

There was a study done on this once by scientists. They didn't take 'cultural impact' into account. Just your accomplishments in the game.

The winner was Don Bradman.

For a reason why, here is the all-time top ten in batting average in cricket. He is so far above any other player, it's comical.

Completed Test career batting averages
1.Don Bradman (AUS) 99.94
2Adam Voges (AUS) 61.87
3.Graeme Pollock (RSA) 60.97
4.George Headley (WI) 60.83
5.Herbert Sutcliffe (ENG) 60.73
6.Eddie Paynter (ENG) 59.23
7.Ken Barrington (ENG) 58.67
8.Everton Weekes (WI) 58.61
9.Wally Hammond (ENG) 58.45
10.Garfield Sobers (WI) 57.78

[jinxed]

As European and big sports fan i don't even really know half the people you listed.

Babe Ruth -> no idea who he is and what sport he played
Wayne Gretzky -> i've heard of him, hockey player. But hockey ain't that big globally
Joe Montana -> heard of him before, QB, but nobody outside of the hardcore football fans in Europe / Germany would know him
Jerry Rice -> don't know him
Jim Brown -> heard of him, because Lebron greeted him once at a Cavs game. Is he football?
Bo Jackson -> never heard of him

You guys with your obesession for GOATs is pretty ridiculous. My favorit sports is football (soccer) and i have never once discussed with someone else for longer then 2min about some GOAT.

You seriously say you havent heard of Babe Ruth? I havent seen a second of Baseball, but I heard of Babe Ruth, He is legendary name, just like Joe DiMaggio, those are 2 Baseball names that everyone heard of, even if you havent heard anything about the sport. they Define time period, when you think of early 1900s, its Babe Ruth, its Al Capone, its Charlie Chaplin, you dont even need to be aware of their work you know these people.

I'm a European citizen (dual with US). Europeans don't know who Babe Ruth is. Think of it like this, how many Americans could name a single cricket player? Can you?

And cricket is much larger worldwide than baseball. Perhaps even more popular than basketball. Some say it's the second most popular sport in the world.

[twyzted]

He is not even the greatest team sport athlete in basketball.

[Pg81]

He is not even the greatest team sport athlete in basketball.

Yeah you will have to live with the fact that not everybody subscribes to what the media tells you over and over.

[Bergmaniac]

Hockey is nowhere near popular enough globally for Gretzky to be on top if we take cultural impact/popularity into account. Barely anyone knows who he is in Asia, Africa and South America.

[twyzted]

cristiano ronaldo has dominated all 3 different major leagues in europe and has won 2 national trophies with sub-par teammates comparatively to the competition (internationally speaking, not domestically)

along with getting robbed of one ballon d'or

most of those guys on the list i assume played in one system in one league on one team their entire careers

What ballon d'or was he robbed off?
i would say that messi dominated la liga more than ronaldo. Not that ronaldo didnt dominate la liga. The only reason i would pick messi over ronaldo is homerism. But ronaldo dominated cl with madrid and any other team hes played with. The way he handled atletico last year is legendary.

[twyzted]

He is not even the greatest team sport athlete in basketball.

Yeah you will have to live with the fact that not everybody subscribes to what the media tells you over and over.

i dont care what media says. He is absolutly the best basketball player ever and there is no other athlete who comes close to how he made nba a global game watched by people around the world.

[MoochieNorris]

Also, MJ was an all time defender, while Gretzky was not known for defense at all.

Yeah...its not like he was a penalty killing specialist or the all time leader in shorthanded goals and takeaways or anything..

Oh wait, he was. Gretzky was an amazing defender who never got credit for it because people focused on his ridiculous offensive dominance. The guys defensive stick work was second to none

Gretzky actually was a bit weak defensively; he was poor in board battles and overall checking. Kevin Lowe & Mark Messier had to take the important face-offs for the Oilers. Still the Greatest hockey player ever, but to say he was elite defensively is a bit of a stretch.

kevin lowe took important faceoffs? my initial instinct is to berate you, but why don't you try it again?

you prolly meant craig mactavish

[The4thHorseman]

The thing about Gretzky is, once he evolved as the face of the league, you basically weren't allowed to touch him. He was protected back then.

Obviously w/o seeing all his games, lm sure the were plenty of times guys had opportunities to check Wayne into next week when his head was down controlling the puck, but knew the consequences for doing so. Lemieux was never given such the luxury

[Kobe187]

Yeah...its not like he was a penalty killing specialist or the all time leader in shorthanded goals and takeaways or anything..

Oh wait, he was. Gretzky was an amazing defender who never got credit for it because people focused on his ridiculous offensive dominance. The guys defensive stick work was second to none

Gretzky actually was a bit weak defensively; he was poor in board battles and overall checking. Kevin Lowe & Mark Messier had to take the important face-offs for the Oilers. Still the Greatest hockey player ever, but to say he was elite defensively is a bit of a stretch.

kevin lowe took important faceoffs? my initial instinct is to berate you, but why don't you try it again?

you prolly meant craig mactavish

Lol. Yes Messier and MacTavish.

[Kobe187]

Agree with the poster above that said it’s relative to geography in terms of cultural impact. Jordan & Ruth in the US, Gretzky in Canada, Don Bradman in Aus etc. Pele & Maradona were probably the most universally recognized followed by MJ simply due to soccer being the #1 sport world wide, but I could be wrong.

[kinste]

As European and big sports fan i don't even really know half the people you listed.

Babe Ruth -> no idea who he is and what sport he played
Wayne Gretzky -> i've heard of him, hockey player. But hockey ain't that big globally
Joe Montana -> heard of him before, QB, but nobody outside of the hardcore football fans in Europe / Germany would know him
Jerry Rice -> don't know him
Jim Brown -> heard of him, because Lebron greeted him once at a Cavs game. Is he football?
Bo Jackson -> never heard of him

You guys with your obesession for GOATs is pretty ridiculous. My favorit sports is football (soccer) and i have never once discussed with someone else for longer then 2min about some GOAT.

You seriously say you havent heard of Babe Ruth? I havent seen a second of Baseball, but I heard of Babe Ruth, He is legendary name, just like Joe DiMaggio, those are 2 Baseball names that everyone heard of, even if you havent heard anything about the sport. they Define time period, when you think of early 1900s, its Babe Ruth, its Al Capone, its Charlie Chaplin, you dont even need to be aware of their work you know these people.

Jep, i am seriously saying that. Absolutly noboby knows Babe Ruth in Germany (maybe some hardcore baseball fans). The avarage sports fan can not tell you 5 current baseball players or even 5 all timers. Joe DiMaggio? Never heard of him.

It's always stunning to me how Americans think there sports are that popular. i have read an article a few weeks ago. The order of popular sports was like this:
Soccer
Cricket
Hockey (not ice hockey, real hockey)
Tennis
volleyball

Basketball for sure was top 10, but i am not sure about baseball.