Blaming "the others" is for *please use a better term to describe your displeasure*

[HurricaneDij25]

Wants to bring up team success but wants to ignore teammates. Well, we now have the all time winner in illogical arguments.

No one said anything about ignoring teammates. Quite the contrary, actually. If basketball is such a team sport, then one guy should not be able to get by with taking all the credit and not taking any of the blame.

Cry me a river.

In the deciding Game 5 against Seattle in the 1998 playoffs, Kevin Garnett had seven points and ten turnovers, but I guess we're supposed to blame everyone except him that the T'Wolves blew a double-digit first half lead in that game.

Props to KG for looking to purchase the Timberwolves, though.

[Metallikid]

I’ll be so happy when LeBron is retired. I’ve never been more sick of hearing about 1 person.

You're going to be waiting at least 6-8 more seasons before that happens.

[dhsilv2]

Wants to bring up team success but wants to ignore teammates. Well, we now have the all time winner in illogical arguments.

No one said anything about ignoring teammates. Quite the contrary, actually. If basketball is such a team sport, then one guy should not be able to get by with taking all the credit and not taking any of the blame.

Cry me a river.

In the deciding Game 5 against Seattle in the 1998 playoffs, Kevin Garnett had seven points and ten turnovers, but I guess we're supposed to blame everyone except him that the T'Wolves blew a double-digit first half lead in that game.

Props to KG for looking to purchase the Timberwolves, though.

The whole concept of "blame" is just odd. But 1998? Who even cares? That was before KG had even made it to the all nba level as a player.

The best players will always get more credit for winning losing than they deserve. That's just the nature of fans simply being dumb. If you want me to support people acting irrational and illogically, well not going to happen. If you want that, youtube comments on ESPN videos is your place.

[KrAzY3]

Throwback toxic masculinity.

We're talking about toxic masculinity on a forum for a male sport.

What do you want them to do? Not be competitive? Not be masculine? May be they show up and just give each other hugs and stop keeping score. Would that be good enough?

[nikster]

Throwback toxic masculinity.

We're talking about toxic masculinity on a forum for a male sport.

What do you want them to do? Not be competitive? Not be masculine? May be they show up and just give each other hugs and stop keeping score. Would that be good enough?

......wow

[NBA Sheady]

Throwback toxic masculinity.

We're talking about toxic masculinity on a forum for a male sport.

What do you want them to do? Not be competitive? Not be masculine? May be they show up and just give each other hugs and stop keeping score. Would that be good enough?

A person can be competitive without toxic masculinity.

A person can be masculine without toxic masculinity.

I don't think you actually know that toxic masculinity is. It's a concept from social science and if you're not interested in social science and you're not reading about it then you probably don't understand it. Much like I don't understand particle physics.

[JRoy]

Was hoping this thread was about Lost and John Locke. Oh well.

That is damn funny.

Wish I could upvote more than once.

[The_Hater]

u know what u just said applies to Pau right?
and even Draymond green.

Since I wasn’t comparing any of those players directly to Dirk, only KG, I’m not exactly sure what your point is? Or even if I agree with it.

Draymond is a better rebounder, a much better passer, and a significantly better defender than Dirk was. Using your faulty criteria, apparently Draymond is the better player.

And here comes some strawman out of nowhere....

[Sabas11]

Throwback toxic masculinity.

We're talking about toxic masculinity on a forum for a male sport.

What do you want them to do? Not be competitive? Not be masculine? May be they show up and just give each other hugs and stop keeping score. Would that be good enough?

There are countries where women can play basketball too. In some places they can even vote. Krazy I know

[ballup]

My two biggest pet peeves on the matter:

1) Most would rank Kevin Garnett ahead of Dirk Nowitzki on the all-time list, with the primary argument being that "KG simply didn't have the supporting cast in Minnesota", and this argument is shameful. For all purposes, there need to be something to be said for winning your one title with the team your entered the league with. One ought to google the one time Dirk and KG faced off in the playoffs, in 2002, and the series wasn't all that close.

2) If LeBron is given all the credit for for bring the Cavs as far as they got during his first tenure with them, he should also be given all the blame for them losing to teams with lesser records (Orlando in 2009 and Boston in 2010).

Blaming the others may get you to the second round of the playoffs, but if you can't make guys around you better and have to "blame the others", you don't deserve to win titles. Kids today are glossing over team concept, and it's sickening. The whole concept of "As long as we have Player A, everything else will take care of itself" will not bode well for the next generation of NBA players after LeBron retires. Plain and simple.

Shallow and contradictory. Hit the double whammy there.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Wallace_Wallace]

Was hoping this thread was about Lost and John Locke. Oh well.

Don’t tell me who I can’t blame!

[ReasonablySober]

I would agree with the OP that if your primary reason for saying KG is better than Dirk is his teammates were worse that is a bad argument.

The problem is that's essentially nobody's argument for why KG is better than Dirk. That is their explanation when Dirk supporters want to talk about KG's playoff record in Minnesota. I get tired of it too, but I also get tired of people saying KG can't win when his Boston days should have forever erased that nonsense.

KG has a strong argument to be ranked ahead of Dirk. This is generally how he is ranked. Not by everyone, but by a solid majority. I personally think Dirk has a strong argument to be ranked ahead of KG. I also understand I have a pro-Dirk bias I have to account for.

It's also a dumb straw-man argument I don't see many people ever making.

[G35]

Sissies = LMFAO

Throwback toxic masculinity.

This is how you talk online argument or in your social science class.

Its the equivalent of referencing TS% in a discussion at the bar...who talks like that.......

[celticfan42487]

This is how I feel about people who consistently complain about refs

Yeah if there's one thing I wish we could enact is a no complaining about the refs rules.

Some announcers waste half the game doing it, and it's almost always a 100% waste of time in any game thread when a post is made about it.

24/7, every single play no matter what can lead these people to complain about the refs instead of looking at the game and making any judgments about the play. It's just such a tiresome waste of everyone's time.

[Texas Chuck]

I would agree with the OP that if your primary reason for saying KG is better than Dirk is his teammates were worse that is a bad argument.

The problem is that's essentially nobody's argument for why KG is better than Dirk. That is their explanation when Dirk supporters want to talk about KG's playoff record in Minnesota. I get tired of it too, but I also get tired of people saying KG can't win when his Boston days should have forever erased that nonsense.

KG has a strong argument to be ranked ahead of Dirk. This is generally how he is ranked. Not by everyone, but by a solid majority. I personally think Dirk has a strong argument to be ranked ahead of KG. I also understand I have a pro-Dirk bias I have to account for.

It's also a dumb straw-man argument I don't see many people ever making.

You've never visited the player comparisons board then because literally every single KG/Dirk thread(and there have been dozens) eventually devolves into just that.

KG has lots of really smart supporters who make very compelling arguments for him as a great player. He also has a lot of supporters who think Ricky Davis was his teammate his entire Minny career and that he never played with a single good player. And even when forced to acknowledge he had some really good teammates, they can't even bring themselves to do that. If you listened to them, you'd think Sam Cassell's real name was 34-year old Sam Cassell. Because saying 2nd team all-NBA Sam Cassell doesn't fit their narrative but calling him old does.


It's incredibly stupid but trust me it happens over and over and over.

[ReasonablySober]

I would agree with the OP that if your primary reason for saying KG is better than Dirk is his teammates were worse that is a bad argument.

The problem is that's essentially nobody's argument for why KG is better than Dirk. That is their explanation when Dirk supporters want to talk about KG's playoff record in Minnesota. I get tired of it too, but I also get tired of people saying KG can't win when his Boston days should have forever erased that nonsense.

KG has a strong argument to be ranked ahead of Dirk. This is generally how he is ranked. Not by everyone, but by a solid majority. I personally think Dirk has a strong argument to be ranked ahead of KG. I also understand I have a pro-Dirk bias I have to account for.

It's also a dumb straw-man argument I don't see many people ever making.

You've never visited the player comparisons board then because literally every single KG/Dirk thread(and there have been dozens) eventually devolves into just that.

KG has lots of really smart supporters who make very compelling arguments for him as a great player. He also has a lot of supporters who think Ricky Davis was his teammate his entire Minny career and that he never played with a single good player. And even when forced to acknowledge he had some really good teammates, they can't even bring themselves to do that. If you listened to them, you'd think Sam Cassell's real name was 34-year old Sam Cassell. Because saying 2nd team all-NBA Sam Cassell doesn't fit their narrative but calling him old does.


It's incredibly stupid but trust me it happens over and over and over.

What do his teammates have to do with his greatness as a player? He's a generational, zero-doubt Hall of Famer. Who he played with has nothing to do with whether or not he was better than Dirk (he was).

[Texas Chuck]

It's also a dumb straw-man argument I don't see many people ever making.

You've never visited the player comparisons board then because literally every single KG/Dirk thread(and there have been dozens) eventually devolves into just that.

KG has lots of really smart supporters who make very compelling arguments for him as a great player. He also has a lot of supporters who think Ricky Davis was his teammate his entire Minny career and that he never played with a single good player. And even when forced to acknowledge he had some really good teammates, they can't even bring themselves to do that. If you listened to them, you'd think Sam Cassell's real name was 34-year old Sam Cassell. Because saying 2nd team all-NBA Sam Cassell doesn't fit their narrative but calling him old does.


It's incredibly stupid but trust me it happens over and over and over.

What do his teammates have to do with his greatness as a player? He's a generational, zero-doubt Hall of Famer. Who he played with has nothing to do with whether or not he was better than Dirk (he was).

This was exactly my original point in what you quoted to start this back and forth. Confused now.

[dhsilv2]

Sissies = LMFAO

Throwback toxic masculinity.

This is how you talk online argument or in your social science class.

Its the equivalent of referencing TS% in a discussion at the bar...who talks like that.......

You talk basketball when drinking and don't reference TS%? Drinking and sports/politics always turns into nothing but a drunking good time of talking numbers, stats, and how to interpret them. Hell, that's why we drink in public, to talk numbers!

[KqWIN]

It’s funny how our idea of greatness comes from movie plots where our “hero” must prevail no matter what difficult obstacles he must face.

[Stillwater]

name calling on the internet is for you op lol