Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Moderators: cupcakesnake, Domejandro, infinite11285, Harry Garris, ken6199, Dirk, bisme37, KingDavid, zimpy27, bwgood77
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
- SelfishPlayer
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,459
- And1: 2,793
- Joined: May 23, 2014
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
If Hakeem played with HOF players earlier in his career, he would be in the mix.
SelfishPlayer wrote:The Mavs won playoff games without Luka
The Mavs missed the playoffs without Brunson.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Starter
- Posts: 2,352
- And1: 2,206
- Joined: Dec 01, 2016
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
I don't really think this but Curry's combination of playmaking, scoring, as well as off the ball movement and spacing make him the best player to build around that's ever played, and as a team game, the player who you'd stick on the best ever team is a GOAT candidate. being the best player on arguably the actual greatest team that's ever played helps his case. He is also clearly the GOAT in a major skillset of the game too and you could argue his 2016 season was the greatest ever and that while longevity is nice, the real greatest player should be someone that actually peaked the greatest. His impact in taking the game into the 3-point era also means he's one of the most important players to play the game from a historical context.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Rookie
- Posts: 1,053
- And1: 1,437
- Joined: Mar 14, 2015
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
If you are being honest with no bias, Jordan, Lebron & Kareem are the only ones with an argument for GOAT.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 39,519
- And1: 26,316
- Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Red Auerbach.
He was the top executive for 16 championship teams, across 3 eras, or 4 eras if you account for the fact that the ONLY person on all Russell championship teams was Russell. He also did more to integrate the league than any other executive.
As a coach, he won 9 championships in an era when coaches had zero assistants. He also presided over the first strongly successful uses of transition offense and shotblocking defense.
He was the top executive for 16 championship teams, across 3 eras, or 4 eras if you account for the fact that the ONLY person on all Russell championship teams was Russell. He also did more to integrate the league than any other executive.
As a coach, he won 9 championships in an era when coaches had zero assistants. He also presided over the first strongly successful uses of transition offense and shotblocking defense.
Banned temporarily for, among other sins, being "Extremely Deviant".
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,150
- And1: 7,828
- Joined: Nov 08, 2009
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
bmurph128 wrote:Shaq is the easiest.
Since it's a tough and odd argument to make, I'll go this route:
If he and Kobe liked each other, he would have been the best player on the only fourpete in league history.
The only thing that stopped him is that they didn't get along. Not really basketball related.
Shaq was also the most unstoppable player in his prime in NBA history IMO.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app
I agree that Shaq would be the only argument that makes sense, but to me it would sound like : Shaq is the greatest player of all-time, he just didn't have the work ethic to have the long term impact to back it up, especially in the RS. If he cared at all the time, he he would have the best career, because he was naturally the best player of all-time.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 15,108
- And1: 2,718
- Joined: Jun 24, 2001
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
If the warriors get Giannis or draft 2 stars Curry becomes the Russell to LeBron's Wilt and it becomes the Curry Era in history.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,728
- And1: 1,883
- Joined: Nov 18, 2017
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Shaq has a legitimate case
For a large part of his career he simply cruised by on talent alone
Lord knows what he could have achieved if he had MJ's drive
For a large part of his career he simply cruised by on talent alone
Lord knows what he could have achieved if he had MJ's drive
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
- Lalouie
- RealGM
- Posts: 19,870
- And1: 10,334
- Joined: May 12, 2017
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
their stats are unassailable so why bother.
instead i'll go by legacy and choose the player who has a legacy equal to theirs,,,,,doctor j. the doctor gave the game the dunk and by doing so gave each following generation of players THEIR platform for self expression. there is no play more hilited, no play that allows the players to express themselves more than the dunk. the game since has had the doctor's watermark
instead i'll go by legacy and choose the player who has a legacy equal to theirs,,,,,doctor j. the doctor gave the game the dunk and by doing so gave each following generation of players THEIR platform for self expression. there is no play more hilited, no play that allows the players to express themselves more than the dunk. the game since has had the doctor's watermark
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 907
- And1: 297
- Joined: Apr 12, 2019
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
if lebron plays better than jordan(and kareem) from 36-40 then he will be the goat
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,834
- And1: 3,721
- Joined: Aug 19, 2017
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Stephen Curry
Led the team with the best playoffs record of all-time
Led the team with the best regular season record of all-time.
Led the team with three consecutive 67+ win seasons.
Made 5 straight finals with the same team in the modern era.
Has the most efficient statistical season of all-time.
Has the record playoffs +/- since it has been recorded.
Has the highest +/- over a five year period since it has been recorded.
Most efficient high-volume scorer of all-time.
Greatest playmaker of all-time.
Greatest off-ball player of all-time.
Greatest shooter of all-time.
Changed the game.
Led the team with the best playoffs record of all-time
Led the team with the best regular season record of all-time.
Led the team with three consecutive 67+ win seasons.
Made 5 straight finals with the same team in the modern era.
Has the most efficient statistical season of all-time.
Has the record playoffs +/- since it has been recorded.
Has the highest +/- over a five year period since it has been recorded.
Most efficient high-volume scorer of all-time.
Greatest playmaker of all-time.
Greatest off-ball player of all-time.
Greatest shooter of all-time.
Changed the game.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
- Roddy
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,010
- And1: 10,807
- Joined: Jun 19, 2010
- Location: France
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Larry Bird.
Most complete player ever.
Most complete player ever.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 28,714
- And1: 15,210
- Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
I think you could make a case for Shaq or Hakeem based on them having arguably the greatest peaks of all time.
I personally don’t see it with Duncan because I think he was clearly a level below those two and his longevity isn’t that much better, but to each their own.
Magic and Bird don’t have the longevity.
I personally don’t see it with Duncan because I think he was clearly a level below those two and his longevity isn’t that much better, but to each their own.
Magic and Bird don’t have the longevity.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Starter
- Posts: 2,301
- And1: 1,455
- Joined: May 29, 2018
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
It's pretty remarkable how little dispute there is about the top 10, even if there's a lot of dispute about the order. In roughly chronological order:
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Some may argue to include Kobe or Garnett (or project that a current player will eventually get there), but there aren't 20 or 25 players in the discussion for top 10. At most 15 even in the conversation.
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Some may argue to include Kobe or Garnett (or project that a current player will eventually get there), but there aren't 20 or 25 players in the discussion for top 10. At most 15 even in the conversation.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 12,845
- And1: 8,926
- Joined: May 25, 2016
- Location: Paris
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Rookie
- Posts: 1,116
- And1: 997
- Joined: Aug 20, 2018
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Bird in an era with as much competition as there wass, Bird was the greatest player of the 80's 3straight MVPs, 3 rings in the decade against some all time great team's, surpassing prime magic and Jordan,, can play in any era, is a much better floor raiser than lebron
Tbh those Celtic's have no business winning if not for bird he made them great.
Tbh those Celtic's have no business winning if not for bird he made them great.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Sophomore
- Posts: 172
- And1: 202
- Joined: Jun 10, 2017
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
The real answer is that you can't. IMO, the only players with meaningful GOAT arguments are MJ, Lebron, Kareem, and Russell. Wilt is personally too much of a stretch for me, but I get it. No one else has a reasonable argument.
Nevertheless, to answer in the spirit of the thread, could it be argued that if you leaned overwhelmingly on a "compared to peers" and difference between the player and his closest peers standard, that George Mikan reigned supreme?
On a title team almost every year from 1947 to 1954.
1st or 2nd in points and rebounds per game almost every year from 1947 to 1954 (under a few reasonable assumptions)
Would probably have about five MVPs and a comparable number of Finals MVPs if the awards existed in his day.
All accomplished from ages 22 to 29.
Nevertheless, to answer in the spirit of the thread, could it be argued that if you leaned overwhelmingly on a "compared to peers" and difference between the player and his closest peers standard, that George Mikan reigned supreme?
On a title team almost every year from 1947 to 1954.
1st or 2nd in points and rebounds per game almost every year from 1947 to 1954 (under a few reasonable assumptions)
Would probably have about five MVPs and a comparable number of Finals MVPs if the awards existed in his day.
All accomplished from ages 22 to 29.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
- PMONSTER
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,400
- And1: 1,301
- Joined: Nov 28, 2009
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Magic has a case for GOAT and that's WITH EVERYONE included.
NBA Playoffs.... I can never wait!
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
- OdomFan
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,250
- And1: 6,673
- Joined: Jan 07, 2017
- Location: Maryland
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Topofthekey wrote:Shaq has a legitimate case
For a large part of his career he simply cruised by on talent alone
Lord knows what he could have achieved if he had MJ's drive
He's definitely one of the greatest ever, but not so sure he has a shot at being number 1 overall. Like for one he spent most of his career cruising because of his size advantage, He had great foot work sure, but if you ask me Hakeem's was far better along with better ability to shoot the ball, make free throws, and play elite defense more consistently.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 49,259
- And1: 41,424
- Joined: Feb 06, 2007
- Location: Clearing space in the trophy case.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
Bush4Ever wrote:The real answer is that you can't.
Yup. I know this is a thought exercise, but I couldn't even fake it if I wanted to. Those are pretty much the only guys.
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
-
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 4,029
- And1: 3,261
- Joined: Jul 20, 2010
- Location: Schenectady, NY
Re: Make a GOAT case for someone other than Jordan/LeBron/Kareem/Wilt/Russell
funny at all the MJ haters in here. great thread op. sucks that some people have Mj living in their head so bad. acting like scottie would somehow be the 6th in the list. lol what bums.
politics
to many 3s
to many 3s