Which Teams Got Better, Worse Or Remained Neutral

[Que Rico]

Anyone saying worse for the Pels need to remember one thing, no more Alvin Gentry. That’s worth 5 more victories by itself.

[Catchall]

FWIW, I think the Bucks are just as well off without Bogdan Bogdanovic.

[Pachinko_]

LOL @ the Lakers staying neutral. They essentially won the offseason after winning the chip, which is extremely rare. They replaced Rondo (34 yrs old), Howard (34 yrs yrs old), Green (33 yrs old), and McGee (33 yrs old) with Harrell (27 yrs old), Shroeder (27 yrs old), Matthews and Gasol.

TBH, as an opponent, the combination of AD/Howard/McGee was terrifying when playing the Lakers. Just too much length and athleticism near the basket, even Giannis had issues. Especially Howard, ever since he decided he was fine with being a role player off the bench he added a lot of value, and a lot of toughness in an era when guys didn't really expect to get an elbow in the ribs. Hate to see him on the Sixers.

Harrell is the most interesting piece coming in, he's very easy to mistake for an energy guy but he's actually a great decision maker on the floor. But make no mistake all that length coming out is a relief for anyone playing the Lakers.

Matthews and Gasol, it wouldn't surprise many people if they gave up basketball after last year, they're kinda done. Might make a difference in 1-2 games in the POs, but so could the guys going out. Schroeder Vs Rondo is a bit of a wash, both great at different things but both have limitations.

Another puzzle for Vogel, same difficulty, different pieces.

[dshearn]

When Hayward played well for Boston, he definitely helped them. Problem is that most of the time he was either injured, or coming back from an injury, so he really didn't help them very much (especially in the playoffs). On the other hand, The C's addressed two of their biggest weakness this off-season by picking up a much tougher inside presence at Center with Triston Thompson, and adding much needed scoring off the bench with Nesmith. They also got a more reliable backup PG with Teague.
I don't think the Celtics hit a home-run this off-season, but I do think they got better (besides the fact that both Tatum and Brown should actually benefit from Haywards absence.)

The idea of Gordon Hayward was great, but think of that game planning and practice and reps that go into getting him to his spots only to have him not play...or come in and out of the game.

I think its addition by subtraction.

I also think Nesmith is super legit.

Unless KD returns to form, Boston with home court is still the scariest team in the East.

[Pachinko_]

FWIW, I think the Bucks are just as well off without Bogdan Bogdanovic.

Unpopular opinion but I agree, I never saw the fit on the Bucks. He got a lot of usage and buzzer beaters in Sacto because they didn't have many options and that made him look good, but on the Bucks he'd be spending 90% of his time at the corner waiting for Giannis/Khris/Jrue to finish whatever they're doing. And I'm not even sure Budenholzer could live with his slow feet on defense when he has the option of Divicenzo and Connaughton who can actually run around screens and put a hand in the face of even the most athletic guards. I could see the guy getting really frustrated after a few games. I mean the Bucks would eventually find the way to get some value out of him for sure, but for himself I think he's much better off in Atlanta.

[BNM]

The Jazz are better if they get the bubble version of Mitchell, who was shooting lights out and making good reads, but I think your appraisal might be a tad optimistic. I think the Jazz are the 3rd best team in the west, behind the LA teams, unless everything just clicks for Portland or Denver.

Portland has shooters everywhere with Dame, CJ, Trent Jr., Simons, Covington, and Melo. I think they'll actually miss Whiteside, but they could have nights where they just run over teams offensively.

I guarantee POR will not miss Whiteside and his empty stats. He is horrible defending in space, against the pick and roll, and he does not box out his man.

With Whiteside, POR had the 3rd best offense, but was 28th in both defensive efficiency and defensive rebounding percentage. With Nurkic back, plus their addtions at the forward spots, they will be a top 10 defensive team (they were top 6 with Nurk, Aminu and Harkless in 2017-18).

Add in getting Collins and Hood back, plus Kanter, Covington, Jones, Melo coming off the bench, and the emergence of Trent and POR will be one of the most improved teams in the league this season. They will be way better defensively and have gone from one of the worst benches in the league to one of the best.

Whiteside was a deterrent at the rim and an underrated rebounder. Kanter is like a checkered flag guarding in pick-and-roll. I haven't seen Collins guard at the 5, but maybe he helps in the paint. Covington and Derrick Jones Jr. help on the perimeter for sure.

If the defense clicks, I think Portland could pass Dallas and possibly Denver this year to be a top-4 seed in the west.

Nurkic, Collins, Covington and Giles are all deterrents around the rim, without Whiteside's horrible pick and roll defense and lack of boxing out.

Kanter is bad defending the pick and roll, but Whiteside is worse. But, Kanter won't be starting and won't be relied on for starter's minutes. What he gives you off the bench is reliable inside scoring, good screens and most of all, he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the history of the game. His 15.0 career ORB% would be 8th on the all time list, but he's even better at cleaning up the offensive glass when coming off the bench against other teams' back up bigs (18.3 ORB% in POR in 2019, 18.0 in BOS and 21.2 in the playoffs for BOS in 2020). To put that in perspective, Dennis Rodman is the all time career leader on ORB% at 17.21. Those extra possessions are huge for the second unit. Sure, you wish Kanter was a better defender, but if he was he'd be starting somewhere else and making a LOT more money. His defense is less of a problem on the second unit, given the other things he does well, and when the matchup doesn't favor him, you go with Collins or Giles as your back up 5. He also gives you a second big body behind Nurk when going against bigger, slower centers like Jokic, Steven Adams and Marc Gasol. Remember, just over 18 months ago, POR advanced to the WCF with Kanter starting at center against Adams and Jokic (while playing with an injured shoulder).

Last year, with Nurk and Collins both missing most of the season, Whiteside was the only legitimate center on their roster for the vast majority of the season. They even had to start 6'8" Anthony Tolliver at center for a few games. With Nurk and Collins back, plus the additions of Kanter and Giles, POR isn't just much better at center, they are also much deeper and more versatile.

Same at the 4, where Covington will start. POR can go big with Collins or Giles as the back up 4 next to Kanter. Melo will also back up either the 4 or the 3, depending on matchups, with Hood and occasionally Trent backing up the 3. POR now has lots of depth and versatility at the 3, 4 and 5 spots. Instead of being forced to play guys like Hezonja, Tolliver and Bazemore big minutes, they will actually have players like Collins and Giles and Hood and Trent battling each other for those minutes. POR now has the flexibility to play everything from HOU style micro ball (RoCo, Jones, Trent, C.J., Dame) to huge lineups with Nurk and Collins/Giles up front, Melo or RoCo at the 3 and Hood or Trent at the 2. All of those variations offer a good combination of offense and defense, with plenty of shooting to space the floor.

[JXL]

How the hell did the Pistons get better at? Unless you mean at PG, Hayes is talented, but he has significant flaws in his game to work on. Despite still having Blake Griffin on their roster, he's on the downward trend. Pistons did exactly the same moves the Hornets did this season, overpay to fail to compete for a 7th or 8th seed. Jerami Grant for $60 million? He was a 3rd/4th option on that Nuggets team. I seriously didn't like their offseason FA signings, but I did like their draft.

[GaryDags]

LOL @ the Lakers staying neutral. They essentially won the offseason after winning the chip, which is extremely rare. They replaced Rondo (34 yrs old), Howard (34 yrs yrs old), Green (33 yrs old), and McGee (33 yrs old) with Harrell (27 yrs old), Shroeder (27 yrs old), Matthews and Gasol.

TBH, as an opponent, the combination of AD/Howard/McGee was terrifying when playing the Lakers. Just too much length and athleticism near the basket, even Giannis had issues. Especially Howard, ever since he decided he was fine with being a role player off the bench he added a lot of value, and a lot of toughness in an era when guys didn't really expect to get an elbow in the ribs. Hate to see him on the Sixers.

Harrell is the most interesting piece coming in, he's very easy to mistake for an energy guy but he's actually a great decision maker on the floor. But make no mistake all that length coming out is a relief for anyone playing the Lakers.

Matthews and Gasol, it wouldn't surprise many people if they gave up basketball after last year, they're kinda done. Might make a difference in 1-2 games in the POs, but so could the guys going out. Schroeder Vs Rondo is a bit of a wash, both great at different things but both have limitations.

Another puzzle for Vogel, same difficulty, different pieces.

As a fan, I acknowledge I am not objective when it relates to the Lakers. My thought is that A. Davis is the engine that made big lineups work in 2020. A similar situation as to Curry and the Warriors position less and 3-point heavily weighted basketball. The team and style must match the roster. I don’t think big basketball is back. I think the Lakers played a brand of basketball best suited for their roster last season. In part because they lost roster flexibility waiting on Kawai last offseason.

The 2020-21 roster has improved compared to the 2019-20 roster. Kuzma was our targeted 3rd option on offense; this season there are four role players ranked in ESPN’s top 100 and Kuzma isn’t one of the four. We don’t all agree with the rankings but they aren’t off by that much. As far as judging players simply by their bubble performance, let’s see how Gasol and Trez play when next to AD.

[HotRocks34]

I like what Dallas has done.

It's not just that they improved their defense. It's that they improved their perimeter defense, including by adding size and athleticism and length.

Just watching tonight's game against the Bucks in spurts, it looks like Carlisle had Luka guarding the center spot. Starters were Luka (PG), Richardson (SG), Hardaway (SF), Finney-Smith (PF) and Powell (C). Luka guarding center, Powell guarding PF (Giannis), and I think your best defenders (JR and DFS) guarding the PG/SG to stop the ball.

Because Luka has bulk and size, you can put him on PF's/C's for defense. This lets Finney-Smith and Richardson stop the ball (something the Mavs could not do at all last year) at the point of attack. This should drastically help Dallas' overall defense. And the offense and depth are looking to be solid, as well.

My guess is that (if the Mavs stay healthy) the teams that will trouble the Mavs on defense (Mavs on defense) this year will be big teams with major bulk/size. Do you want Luka guarding Anthony Davis? Or guarding Marc Gasol? That won't work. But if Luka is forced back to perimeter defense then you may be able to get past him off the dribble. Similar issue with Finney-Smith trying to guard Davis. Those huge teams (not many of them in the NBA now) may bother Dallas as much as any this year. Particularly when Porzi is out.

Still, I like the improvements and the versatility and the depth of the team. And Carlisle will maximize things.

If I were Giannis, I would be looking hard at Dallas as a landing spot. Only health, IMO, can stop their ascension.

[DroseReturnChi]

How would Bulls get worse. They just added PW literally the best player in the draft.

[BNM]

LOL @ the Lakers staying neutral. They essentially won the offseason after winning the chip, which is extremely rare. They replaced Rondo (34 yrs old), Howard (34 yrs yrs old), Green (33 yrs old), and McGee (33 yrs old) with Harrell (27 yrs old), Shroeder (27 yrs old), Matthews and Gasol.

It's pretty funny that you very specifically listed the ages of every outgoing player over 30, and then completely neglected to mention that Matthews is 34 and Gasol almost 36. That right there is the definition of being a fan!

[gottamakeit]

Denver was bottom-tier defensively last year. Gary Harris being healthy will make a difference, for sure, but they lost some size and athleticism defensively with Plumlee, Grant and Craig leaving. If Porter, Murray and Jokic are on the floor, teams are going to get to the rim.

They lost so much depth, I think their overall record and seeding will take a hit. Plus all the extra mileage on their starters might cause issues late in the season/post-season.

[gottamakeit]

How would Bulls get worse. They just added PW literally the best player in the draft.

Hold the damn horses!
Patrick Williams is an excellent player for a winning team, with a good team culture. Bulls got the wrong guy with where they are in their roster construction.

[Patsfan1081]

Many teams became better.

Atlanta Hawks: Much Better
Boston Celtics: Neutral
Brooklyn Nets: Much Better
Charlotte Hornets: Slightly Better
Chicago Bulls: Worse
Cleveland Cavaliers: Neutral
Dallas Mavericks: Better
Denver Nuggets: Worse
Detroit Pistons: Slightly Better
Golden State Warriors: Much Better
Houston Rockets: Worse
Indiana Pacers: Better
Los Angeles Clippers: Slightly Worse
Los Angeles Lakers: Better
Memphis Grizzlies: Better
Miami Heat: Better
Milwaukee Bucks: Neutral
Minnesota Timberwolves: Slightly Better
New Orleans Pelicans: Better
New York Knicks: Worse Slightly Better
OKC Thunder: Much Worse
Orlando Magic: Worse
Philadelphia 76ers: Slightly Worse
Phoenix Suns: Better
Portland Trailblazers: Much Better
Sacramento Kings: Neutral
San Antonio Spurs: Neutral
Toronto Raptors: Worse
Utah Jazz: Neutral Slightly Better
Washington Wizards: Better

The Sixers got wayyy better, shows how well you know about the Sixers/basketball

This is why these threads are so silly, we won’t know about any of these teams until the season starts. There are always different contributions and jumps from young players and we never know how new players will mesh. Its a pretty safe bet that everyone believed Philly made a significant upgrade last offseason when they signed Horford and could see a potentially healthy Zaire play........So give people a break with the “you don’t know our team stick .

[Dnt hate]

Many teams became better.

Atlanta Hawks: Much Better
Boston Celtics: Neutral
Brooklyn Nets: Much Better
Charlotte Hornets: Slightly Better
Chicago Bulls: Worse
Cleveland Cavaliers: Neutral
Dallas Mavericks: Better
Denver Nuggets: Worse
Detroit Pistons: Slightly Better
Golden State Warriors: Much Better
Houston Rockets: Worse
Indiana Pacers: Better
Los Angeles Clippers: Slightly Worse
Los Angeles Lakers: Better
Memphis Grizzlies: Better
Miami Heat: Better
Milwaukee Bucks: Neutral
Minnesota Timberwolves: Slightly Better
New Orleans Pelicans: Better
New York Knicks: Worse Slightly Better
OKC Thunder: Much Worse
Orlando Magic: Worse
Philadelphia 76ers: Slightly Worse
Phoenix Suns: Better
Portland Trailblazers: Much Better
Sacramento Kings: Neutral
San Antonio Spurs: Neutral
Toronto Raptors: Worse
Utah Jazz: Neutral Slightly Better
Washington Wizards: Better

The Sixers got wayyy better, shows how well you know about the Sixers/basketball

This is why these threads are so silly, we won’t know about any of these teams until the season starts. There are always different contributions and jumps from young players and we never know how new players will mesh. Its a pretty safe bet that everyone believed Philly made a significant upgrade last offseason when they signed Horford and could see a potentially healthy Zaire play........So give people a break with the “you don’t know our team stick .

He clearly doesn't, I don't know what your complaining about

[Feel_the_Heat15]

When Hayward played well for Boston, he definitely helped them. Problem is that most of the time he was either injured, or coming back from an injury, so he really didn't help them very much (especially in the playoffs). On the other hand, The C's addressed two of their biggest weakness this off-season by picking up a much tougher inside presence at Center with Triston Thompson, and adding much needed scoring off the bench with Nesmith. They also got a more reliable backup PG with Teague.
I don't think the Celtics hit a home-run this off-season, but I do think they got better (besides the fact that both Tatum and Brown should actually benefit from Haywards absence.)

Hayward played 52 games in the regular season for the Celtics out of 72. It's hard to imagine that you wouldn't have been a worst team if he didn't play at all. I don't think adding Tristan Thompson, Teague and a rookie more than offsets losing a wing that averaged a very efficient 17 PPG. In fact, playing Thompson might actually make your team worse.

[bebopdeluxe]

Many teams became better.

Atlanta Hawks: Much Better
Boston Celtics: Neutral
Brooklyn Nets: Much Better
Charlotte Hornets: Slightly Better
Chicago Bulls: Worse
Cleveland Cavaliers: Neutral
Dallas Mavericks: Better
Denver Nuggets: Worse
Detroit Pistons: Slightly Better
Golden State Warriors: Much Better
Houston Rockets: Worse
Indiana Pacers: Better
Los Angeles Clippers: Slightly Worse
Los Angeles Lakers: Better
Memphis Grizzlies: Better
Miami Heat: Better
Milwaukee Bucks: Neutral
Minnesota Timberwolves: Slightly Better
New Orleans Pelicans: Better
New York Knicks: Worse Slightly Better
OKC Thunder: Much Worse
Orlando Magic: Worse
Philadelphia 76ers: Slightly Worse
Phoenix Suns: Better
Portland Trailblazers: Much Better
Sacramento Kings: Neutral
San Antonio Spurs: Neutral
Toronto Raptors: Worse
Utah Jazz: Neutral Slightly Better
Washington Wizards: Better

How did the Sixers get worse? Upgraded MASSIVELY at GM with Morey. Even if Brown to Doc is a wash, adding Joerger and Cassell (and Burke) to the coaching staff should be an upgrade. Swapping Horford for Howard isn't a huge downgrade on the floor and saves the team a TON of $. Added one of the best 3-point shooters in the league and a guy who fell to 21 (Maxey) who could be a nice addition to their offense.

So...are they going to miss Josh Richardson THAT much?

[MoneyTalks41890]

Thunder have the biggest delta here I’m pretty sure. If there was an award for how much worse a team got, they’re a lock.

[bebopdeluxe]

Oh I think its pretty clear they downgraded in talent in the name of fit and getting their finances sorted moving forward. I don't think they will be worse, but there is definitely an argument.

Fit is a bog deal. Richardson looked awful and Horford was abysmal. They acquired 3 point shooting wich is key in the modern NBA. I'm still amazed they were able to get rid of Horford's contract while upgrading the 2 and depth at the same time let alone improved cap flexability. Wish they could've moved Harris, but that contract is borderline untradeable.

I disagree about Horford being abysmal. He wasn't great but it's not like he was a negative impact player. He gave the 76ers good defense and offensively he was above average for a big man. 76ers problem wasn't just Horford "not fitting" with the team, they lacked spacing from almost everywhere. 76ers gave up great defensive players that were decent offensively for good offense and decent defense.

I assume this post was written without, you know, looking at analytics and FACTS. Embiid without Horford? Solid. Horford without Embiid? That was OK. Embiid and Horford together?

https://theathletic.com/1608073/2020/02/14/bodner-the-numbers-back-up-sending-al-horford-to-the-sixers-bench/

For those who do not have a subscription to The Athletic, here is the money part of this piece (talking about the decision right before the league shut down in March to bench Horford):

• Stat of the week: 98.8 offensive rating
in the 429 minutes Embiid, Simmons and Horford have shared the court this season

That number is truly staggering in its awfulness. To put it in perspective: The 2015-16 Sixers, while on their way to 10 total wins and trying an ill-fated experiment of basing an offense around Jahlil Okafor and Nerlens Noel, averaged 98.4 points per 100 possessions. This season, the Golden State Warriors have the NBA’s worst offense at 103.9 — more than 5 points per 100 possessions ahead of the Embiid/Simmons/Horford trio.
_________________________________________________
The article also shows that BOTH Embiid's and Simmons' offensive production goes up ACROSS THE BOARD when they are on the floor without Horford out there. It is statistically CLEAR AS DAY that Horford at the 4 next to Embiid was not working. Period.

I f'n HATE when people on the GB make arguments with declarative statements that are DEVOID OF FACTS.

Do better.

[JRoy]

Thunder have the biggest delta here I’m pretty sure. If there was an award for how much worse a team got, they’re a lock.

That might be true but there is a method to that madness and okc is set up for a strong future.

SGA is going to be putting up cray numbers this season.