Better mid-range scorer: MJ or Dirk?

[Takingbaconback]

It's Dirk. He was an accurate high volume midrange shooter for his entire 20 year career whereas Jordan only focused on that as he got older and he only reached Dirk's heights in midrange accuracy in one season.

Dirk didn't have 5 guys focusing on him every night. MJ performed the way he did with players tossing him to the ground and having teams game plan against him every single time he took the floor.

Mid-range scorer is clearly MJ, his agility and ability to work that area of the floor is lightyears ahead of Dirk ever was

[Duke4life831]

Im going to go with a cop-out answer here but whatever.

MJ was more skilled, Dirk was more effective.

What I mean by this is, it took a lot more moves and ability for MJ to get a clean shot off. So he really had to max out his footwork and all his moves. While Dirk on the other hand was 7 feet, so right there it gives him a massive advantage.

So ya I think MJ had more moves and cleaner footwork (no way a shot at Dirk, MJ's midrange footwork is arguably as good as it gets though). But ya Dirk was literally unstoppable in the midrange. Also to put it into perspective just how insanely unstoppable Dirk's midrange game was. Prime Dirk came in the same time as prime KD and prime KG, two of the best defenders that position has ever seen. Even they couldn't stop him. He lit up KG that one time when Dallas swept Minny in the playoffs. And again to be perfectly clear, this isn't me taking a swipe at KG, that's just how unstoppable Dirk was. You literally couldn't defend him in the midrange, if Dirk missed it was because of Dirk, not because of whatever defense you played.

And ya when it came to MJ, I could watch a hour highlight of just him in the midrange. His midrange game was just that good and that beautiful. So overall skill and versatility Id go MJ, but overall effectiveness, gotta go Dirk. That midrange one legged shot was as unstoppable as Kareem's skyhook. Just one of those legendary shots.

Do you really believe Dirk was more effective? Maybe there could be an argument for efficiency during certain situations and plays, but effective... It's hard to believe anything is more effective in NBA history than MJ's midrange. Shaq's play inside the paint would be the only argument in my mind.

In the Midrange? I think it’s close but ya. Dirk was high volume in the midrange with crazy good efficiency. So if you’re just as high of volume and more efficient, how is that not being more effective?

[madmaxmedia]

It's Dirk. He was an accurate high volume midrange shooter for his entire 20 year career whereas Jordan only focused on that as he got older and he only reached Dirk's heights in midrange accuracy in one season.

Dirk didn't have 5 guys focusing on him every night. MJ performed the way he did with players tossing him to the ground and having teams game plan against him every single time he took the floor.

Mid-range scorer is clearly MJ, his agility and ability to work that area of the floor is lightyears ahead of Dirk ever was

Mid-range scorer to me means anything that's not a 3-pointer or finishing at the rim. Dirk was obviously a monster with his height and skills and shooting touch, a revolutionary big man. But MJ is a level above as a basketball player and while he had a lot of finishes at the rim, he was not a prolific 3-point shooter and a lot of his scoring was in the mid-range area as I defined it. So to me MJ is easily the better mid-range scorer.

Dirk had height, but MJ had the best combination of body control and skills ever, as well as those big hands that were great for ball fakes all over the court, not just dunks.

Which one was the better mid-range shooter, I don't have a strong opinion on I guess.

[RapsFan2000]

Scorer? MJ.... Shooter? Dirk.
MJ could create effortlessly and get his shot up from midrange against most defenders, dribbling to his sweet spots, fading, pulling up, guy could do layups from the damn free throw line lol.
Dirk is a 7'ft beast so his height helped him with those fade away shots and lining up to take those jumpers around the key but regardless is one of the best scorers/shooters from mid range with his skills. As the question is best scorer from mid range , its MJ... as a shooter simply, I'd take Dirk.

[SOA]

Are free throws counted as mid range also?

MJ: 83.5%
Dirk: 87.9%

**shrugs shoulders**

[LAL1947]

Are free throws counted as mid range also?

MJ: 83.5%
Dirk: 87.9%

**shrugs shoulders**

83.5% from 8.2 FTA = 6.85 FTs converted for 13 points (rounded down).
87.9% from 5.4 FTA = 4.75 FTs converted for 9 points (rounded down).

13 is 44% more than 9.

**does moonwalk while exiting stage left**

[SOA]

Are free throws counted as mid range also?

MJ: 83.5%
Dirk: 87.9%

**shrugs shoulders**

83.5% from 8.2 FTA = 6.85 FTs converted for 13 points (rounded down).
87.9% from 5.4 FTA = 4.75 FTs converted for 9 points (rounded down).

13 is 44% more than 9.

**does moonwalk while exiting stage left**

I thought the question was better scorer? Because all you showed was MJ shot more from the free throw line. But when you factor in efficiency from the free hrow line, he wasn't the better one from that distance.

Career:

MJ: 6798 ot of 8115
Dirk: 7240 out of 8239

Playoffs:
MJ: 1463 out of 1766
Dirk: 1074 out of 1204

Not a lot of discrepancy n total attempts albeit MJ had the shorter career. Although if he played with more wear and tear his percentage may have dropped too. He was barely cracking the 80% barrier his last few years, with two years below 80%.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Man, the campaign to discredit is fervent and full of revisions.

[LAL1947]

Are free throws counted as mid range also?

MJ: 83.5%
Dirk: 87.9%

**shrugs shoulders**

83.5% from 8.2 FTA = 6.85 FTs converted for 13 points (rounded down).
87.9% from 5.4 FTA = 4.75 FTs converted for 9 points (rounded down).

13 is 44% more than 9.

**does moonwalk while exiting stage left**

I thought the question was better scorer? Because all you showed was MJ shot more from the free throw line. But when you factor in efficiency from the free hrow line, he wasn't the better one from that distance.

That is the question... and you're now trying to twist it... because 13 points is just simply 44% more than 9 points.

If Dirk was not able to draw more fouls (as well as create more scoring attempts, or score more) despite playing more of his career in an era with softer rules (no hand-checking implemented in 2004-05)... that's not MJ's problem.

[DCasey91]

Stat cuts off MJs best years but found this telling of how elite Dirk's mid range was.

Now to the question, I think MJ was the better mid range "scorer" but Dirk was the better mid range "shooter."

Well put! Who knows what the volume and % is between the years for MJ up until 96.’

Who knows. If it’s calculated that would paint the clearest picture.

The question is whose the better ‘midrange scorer’ not finisher, shooter from range, drawing fouls etc.

Do we count FT% too?

It’s probably MJ, but Dirk was king of the midrange during that whole era as the scoring map can attest too.

[LAL1947]

Well put! Who knows what the volume and % is between the years for MJ up until 96.’

Who knows. If it’s calculated that would paint the clearest picture.

The question is whose the better ‘midrange scorer’ not finisher, shooter from range, drawing fouls etc.

Do we count FT% too?

It’s probably MJ, but Dirk was king of the midrange during that whole era as the scoring map can attest too.

That image does not show the highest in each zone by %... it shows the total. It includes 4 years of MJ in its totals (2 while he was at the Wiz), while including the whole of Dirk's career! If it included all of MJ's career, he'd replace Dirk in each of those spots.

[DCasey91]

Also soon shooting just (within one feet) outside the 3 point line will be called “midrange” lol they are shooting the thing from the parking lot nowadays.

[DCasey91]

Well put! Who knows what the volume and % is between the years for MJ up until 96.’

Who knows. If it’s calculated that would paint the clearest picture.

The question is whose the better ‘midrange scorer’ not finisher, shooter from range, drawing fouls etc.

Do we count FT% too?

It’s probably MJ, but Dirk was king of the midrange during that whole era as the scoring map can attest too.

That image does not show the highest in each zone by %... it shows the total! You get the difference, right?

It includes 3 years of MJ in its totals, while including the whole of Dirk's career!

Yes I know how read thanks. Volume + Efficiency goes hand in hand. This isn’t a Kerr vs Curry shooting type thing.

[GregOden]

Are free throws counted as mid range also?

MJ: 83.5%
Dirk: 87.9%

**shrugs shoulders**

83.5% from 8.2 FTA = 6.85 FTs converted for 13 points (rounded down).
87.9% from 5.4 FTA = 4.75 FTs converted for 9 points (rounded down).

13 is 44% more than 9.

**does moonwalk while exiting stage left**

I thought the question was better scorer? Because all you showed was MJ shot more from the free throw line. But when you factor in efficiency from the free hrow line, he wasn't the better one from that distance.

Career:

MJ: 6798 ot of 8115
Dirk: 7240 out of 8239

Playoffs:
MJ: 1463 out of 1766
Dirk: 1074 out of 1204

Not a lot of discrepancy n total attempts albeit MJ had the shorter career. Although if he played with more wear and tear his percentage may have dropped too. He was barely cracking the 80% barrier his last few years, with two years below 80%.

The drop in FT% was because he was bulking up to 220lbs because the late 90s/early 2000s was turning into a wrestling contest. Kobe's shooting similarly took a dive when he bulked up in 2004 offseason.

[DCasey91]

Dirk shooting career split %’s

10-16 ft at 24.4% shot volume - 46.8% FG
16ft - 3p at 31.3% shot volume - 47.4% FG
3p at 22% shot volume - 38% FG
88% FT shooter on 5.4 attempts (more if you adjust for peak/prime).

That’s so much volume on excellent splits.

An interesting point too to make is the era. Dirk had a huge diet of midrange and beyond on distance but considering game philosophy back then in the 90’s he would have probably taken more from during his era as brought up by the narrative of the inefficiency of the long “2”.

I mean he beats Kobe handily in the midrange stakes. And he has double what the 3par is in the 90’s .113 to .219 but very slightly below his own era standard .222.

Pretty interesting to see.

At their best/peak they both shot well north of 50% FG in the midrange spot (distance between 10ft - 3p) on big volume. It’s fair to say Dirk had an easier time of it on expending energy, Mj on the other-hand was ruthless and would double down on extreme volume especially later years.

[DCasey91]

It's Dirk. He was an accurate high volume midrange shooter for his entire 20 year career whereas Jordan only focused on that as he got older and he only reached Dirk's heights in midrange accuracy in one season.

Dirk didn't have 5 guys focusing on him every night. MJ performed the way he did with players tossing him to the ground and having teams game plan against him every single time he took the floor.

Mid-range scorer is clearly MJ, his agility and ability to work that area of the floor is lightyears ahead of Dirk ever was

Watch on YouTube

Where are these 5 guys that you’re talking about? A lot of 1vs1 there.

It’s basketball if it really is five guys you’d win every single game even with average passing lol.

Not the biggest fan of Curry but do you know who had harder doubles especially on the outer? It’s Curry and there’s no question about. Curry gets quadruple trapped before half court lol seen it on more than a couple of occasions, it’s basically don’t let him shoot because he’s not missing anything atm.

It’s the 90’s you could creep in 2+ feet if your a good ball-handler inside the 3p line without the greatest of fuss. Today? Way way way different story.

When he did that fancy palm merry go round to the defender did you see the unimaginable space that was there? I don’t even want to quantity it in square meterage. Hint it’s a ton of space to work in.

[Fencer reregistered]

I'll go with the best tall shooters (Dirk, KD) over the ones who needed and had more impressive moves and/or footwork (Jordan, Kobe, Dantley, Pierce ...)

[trickshot]

This seems disrespectful to MJ, who is rightfully the greatest mid-range scorer ever.

- Scoring champion... MJ is 10-time vs Dirk ZERO?
- RS career averages... MJ is 30 PPG vs Dirk 20 PPG.
- Playoff career averages... MJ is 33 PPG vs Dirk 25 PPG.

That too, with Dirk taking 2x more 3-PT shots than MJ... and you're asking if Dirk was a better mid-range scorer? Just no.

If the question was "shooter" rather than "scorer"... okay, you could ask that question and have some debate about it... but MJ would win that too as he and Dirk have a similar TS% (56.9% vs 57.7%) and eFG (50.9% vs 51.2%), despite MJ making 40% more FGA (25 vs 18). So the only thing Dirk was really better at is 3PT shooting (33% vs 36%).

Shame on the 5 out of 15 who've voted for Dirk so far. Really... fo' shame!

MJ is a better player than Dirk, no one will argue against that, he's top 2 all time with only LeBron having a case to be better, but Dirk's career stats were hit by his 7 post championship seasons where he played from age 32-39 when he really wasn't as good as 2000-2011.
The only 2 season with the Bulls that have mid range data in 96-98, and he had significantly worse FG% from there than Dirk's stats at same age.
MJ relied on athleticism to create space for a jump shot, either face up or turn around, these required much more effort the Dirk's onw legged fade aways.

MJ was most definitely not more reliant on athleticism to create jumpshots. This would be the equivalent of saying Dirk relied on height while MJ had to be crafty because he couldn't just shoot over anyone. It's simplynot the case. MJ had the best separation moves and countermoves for creating his jumpshots.

Also comparisons assuming the more athletic guy is always less skilled needs to stop. MJ was more skilled and more athletic as a shot creator than Dirk, defenders couldn't stay in front of young MJ because of how could turn every step he took into a pirouette and leave them wrongfooted, he wasn't simply blowing past everyone just as Dirk wasn't simply shooting over everyone. He was max skill max athleticism. It can't be overstated how far ahead of his time his moves were in the 80s. From a technical standpoint MJ was a scoring skill deity.

[HollowEarth]

Stat cuts off MJs best years but found this telling of how elite Dirk's mid range was.

Now to the question, I think MJ was the better mid range "scorer" but Dirk was the better mid range "shooter."

Sorta OT: but I love how KG's baseline fadeaway was such his bread and butter that he's carved out a spot on the grid. This is showing the leaders in total points, right? Other teams knew KG was going to use it, but he was so long and quick that cutting off his path to the paint opened up the fadeaway.

[DCasey91]

This seems disrespectful to MJ, who is rightfully the greatest mid-range scorer ever.

- Scoring champion... MJ is 10-time vs Dirk ZERO?
- RS career averages... MJ is 30 PPG vs Dirk 20 PPG.
- Playoff career averages... MJ is 33 PPG vs Dirk 25 PPG.

That too, with Dirk taking 2x more 3-PT shots than MJ... and you're asking if Dirk was a better mid-range scorer? Just no.

If the question was "shooter" rather than "scorer"... okay, you could ask that question and have some debate about it... but MJ would win that too as he and Dirk have a similar TS% (56.9% vs 57.7%) and eFG (50.9% vs 51.2%), despite MJ making 40% more FGA (25 vs 18). So the only thing Dirk was really better at is 3PT shooting (33% vs 36%).

Shame on the 5 out of 15 who've voted for Dirk so far. Really... fo' shame!

MJ is a better player than Dirk, no one will argue against that, he's top 2 all time with only LeBron having a case to be better, but Dirk's career stats were hit by his 7 post championship seasons where he played from age 32-39 when he really wasn't as good as 2000-2011.
The only 2 season with the Bulls that have mid range data in 96-98, and he had significantly worse FG% from there than Dirk's stats at same age.
MJ relied on athleticism to create space for a jump shot, either face up or turn around, these required much more effort the Dirk's onw legged fade aways.

MJ was most definitely not more reliant on athleticism to create jumpshots. This would be the equivalent of saying Dirk relied on height while MJ had to be crafty because he couldn't just shoot over anyone. It's simplynot the case. MJ had the best separation moves and countermoves for creating his jumpshots.

Also comparisons assuming the more athletic guy is always less skilled needs to stop. MJ was more skilled and more athletic as a shot creator than Dirk, defenders couldn't stay in front of young MJ because of how could turn every step he took into a pirouette and leave them wrongfooted, he wasn't simply blowing past everyone just as Dirk wasn't simply shooting over everyone. He was max skill max athleticism. It can't be overstated how far ahead of his time his moves were in the 80s. From a technical standpoint MJ was a scoring skill deity.

Well I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news but one of MJ’s top moves in his arsenal is a travel every single time.

The shift pivot is always a travel. Try it and see for yourself it sends the defender in a loop because you are stepping twice and just shift towards the opposite side the defender is going for.

MJ jab first then lift switch feet and take off either side it’s always a travel.

Not to mention carrying . He wasn’t the progenitor of breaking rules (D.R J, Pistol Pete and Magic were very egregious) but I’ll call a spade a spade every single time.

That isn’t skill that’s cheating under the law. A lot of his famous moves are direct violations. But it’s MJ so I digress.