How did rim protection in the 90s compare to today?

[trickshot]

Well, it had this. So, better.

Yeah, you'd get ejected for taunting somebody that way today.

Lol pretty sure I saw Dwight do it the other day.

Watch on YouTube

It was actually also a technical back then when Mutombo did it.

Watch on YouTube

funfact is Jordan picked up a technical when he did it back to Mutombo on that famous revenge facial.

Watch on YouTube

I think the 90s is exaggerated on this front. By then the league was already "soft". Superstar calls were in full effect and the nba had introduced a higher class of fouls intentional/technicals to outlaw hard fouls. This was also the decade palming would become fully normalised. Throw in the aggressive expansion watering down the league and it's kind of weird to see people now remember it as a golden era when it was actually the 80s that was the golden era. Peak athlete MJ, showtime Lakers, Dynasty celtics and bad boy pistons.

[SelfishPlayer]

It was WAY easier to get a call in the 90's man.

This insane misinformation has GOT to stop. Look, guards get way more calls today dribbling on the outside, but in the 90's team would just go inside and get a foul so often it was stupid, and HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO, these were NOT HARD FOULS! Offensive players in the 90's were actively going to the basket and LOOKING for contact, just like the "foul baiting" we see today, and they were getting the calls MORE often.

Sorry for all the bold but this seem like a constant point of contention and it's just freaking wrong! Today inside the same fouls called in the 90's aren't called today. Post players can get mauled (see harden's post defense) and they never get a foul. At the rim as others have explained the ideas of verticality, if you go straight up you aren't fouling wasn't like it is today. Guys would just run into the post players and get 2 free throws. The offensive players initiated the contact just like today...for some reason it was acceptable to get a foul by running into a guy at the rim, but it's not to do what 3 point shooters do today (being fair the 90's foul hunting was harder to understand for a casual fan than today).

I disagree with your perspective. Scoring on the inside is much easier today from the rules down to the philosophy. There is no such thing as a statement hard foul around the rim early in the game to establish "no easy ones." Defenders around the rim these days are constantly seen trying to avoid "cheap ones," as in cheap fouls.

And yet the data shows there were 30% more free throws in the 90's. You're right that you don't see the EXTREMELY rare "statement" foul at the rim today because those are now ruled flagrant fouls, but the other 25 shooting fouls a game in the 90's weren't hard fouls.

POST players are completely mauled today and they simply don't get calls. At the rim guys will get calls much like historically but again verticality has come into play. The biggest difference for scoring inside today is that there are less bodies at the rim. That said dunks as a percentage of field goals remains roughly at 5% today as it was in the 90's.

Finishing through contact is a concept established in the NBA's past. Why? Not to simply complete and-1 opportunities, but to play through no calls. The 90's had no calls around the rim. The amount of no calls around the rim emboldened the "statement foul" around the rim. They go hand and hand. You can't work this out statistically. It can only be worked out legislatively. The NBA implemented post 90's rules for exactly what we are seeing today. People like you turn a blind eye to the rules. The defensive 3 second rule makes it easier for guards to finish in the paint with less concern of contact with a 7 footer looking to make a statement without having to cover very much distance to make it.

[dhsilv2]

I disagree with your perspective. Scoring on the inside is much easier today from the rules down to the philosophy. There is no such thing as a statement hard foul around the rim early in the game to establish "no easy ones." Defenders around the rim these days are constantly seen trying to avoid "cheap ones," as in cheap fouls.

And yet the data shows there were 30% more free throws in the 90's. You're right that you don't see the EXTREMELY rare "statement" foul at the rim today because those are now ruled flagrant fouls, but the other 25 shooting fouls a game in the 90's weren't hard fouls.

POST players are completely mauled today and they simply don't get calls. At the rim guys will get calls much like historically but again verticality has come into play. The biggest difference for scoring inside today is that there are less bodies at the rim. That said dunks as a percentage of field goals remains roughly at 5% today as it was in the 90's.

Finishing through contact is a concept established in the NBA's past. Why? Not to simply complete and-1 opportunities, but to play through no calls. The 90's had no calls around the rim. The amount of no calls around the rim emboldened the "statement foul" around the rim. They go hand and hand. You can't work this out statistically. It can only be worked out legislatively. The NBA implemented post 90's rules for exactly what we are seeing today. People like you turn a blind eye to the rules. The defensive 3 second rule makes it easier for guards to finish in the paint with less concern of contact with a 7 footer looking to make a statement without having to cover very much distance to make it.

Yes, the league took out non basketball plays that should never have been allowed. Beyond that shots inside vs outside aren't that different. Mid range shots have just correctly moved into 3's vs long 2's. Inside shots are taken more by guards because 3's have pulled big men out of the paint and refs not letting post players play has all but killed any viability to post big men up today. And with all of this, teams have gotten better at defending the rim while offensive players have gotten better at attacking.

[LakerLegend]

And yet the data shows there were 30% more free throws in the 90's. You're right that you don't see the EXTREMELY rare "statement" foul at the rim today because those are now ruled flagrant fouls, but the other 25 shooting fouls a game in the 90's weren't hard fouls.

POST players are completely mauled today and they simply don't get calls. At the rim guys will get calls much like historically but again verticality has come into play. The biggest difference for scoring inside today is that there are less bodies at the rim. That said dunks as a percentage of field goals remains roughly at 5% today as it was in the 90's.

Finishing through contact is a concept established in the NBA's past. Why? Not to simply complete and-1 opportunities, but to play through no calls. The 90's had no calls around the rim. The amount of no calls around the rim emboldened the "statement foul" around the rim. They go hand and hand. You can't work this out statistically. It can only be worked out legislatively. The NBA implemented post 90's rules for exactly what we are seeing today. People like you turn a blind eye to the rules. The defensive 3 second rule makes it easier for guards to finish in the paint with less concern of contact with a 7 footer looking to make a statement without having to cover very much distance to make it.

Yes, the league took out non basketball plays that should never have been allowed. Beyond that shots inside vs outside aren't that different. Mid range shots have just correctly moved into 3's vs long 2's. Inside shots are taken more by guards because 3's have pulled big men out of the paint and refs not letting post players play has all but killed any viability to post big men up today. And with all of this, teams have gotten better at defending the rim while offensive players have gotten better at attacking.

No. The league has literally legislated that perimeter players can't be guarded as effectively by taking physical defense on the perimeter out through the rules.

Couple that with extremely loose enforcement of carrying and traveling and it's easier than ever to get to the rim.

[SelfishPlayer]

And yet the data shows there were 30% more free throws in the 90's. You're right that you don't see the EXTREMELY rare "statement" foul at the rim today because those are now ruled flagrant fouls, but the other 25 shooting fouls a game in the 90's weren't hard fouls.

POST players are completely mauled today and they simply don't get calls. At the rim guys will get calls much like historically but again verticality has come into play. The biggest difference for scoring inside today is that there are less bodies at the rim. That said dunks as a percentage of field goals remains roughly at 5% today as it was in the 90's.

Finishing through contact is a concept established in the NBA's past. Why? Not to simply complete and-1 opportunities, but to play through no calls. The 90's had no calls around the rim. The amount of no calls around the rim emboldened the "statement foul" around the rim. They go hand and hand. You can't work this out statistically. It can only be worked out legislatively. The NBA implemented post 90's rules for exactly what we are seeing today. People like you turn a blind eye to the rules. The defensive 3 second rule makes it easier for guards to finish in the paint with less concern of contact with a 7 footer looking to make a statement without having to cover very much distance to make it.

Yes, the league took out non basketball plays that should never have been allowed. Beyond that shots inside vs outside aren't that different. Mid range shots have just correctly moved into 3's vs long 2's. Inside shots are taken more by guards because 3's have pulled big men out of the paint and refs not letting post players play has all but killed any viability to post big men up today. And with all of this, teams have gotten better at defending the rim while offensive players have gotten better at attacking.

Defensive 3 second rule makes that an impossibility. If one NBA team were allowed to play by 1999 defensive rules, they would most likely eventually become the best defensive team in the league today. Your argument is somehow players have become collectively better at defense even though the league has legislated aspects of it out of the game. Your proof is statistics, but those statistics aren't based upon the same factors. You get different outcomes with differing input. Defensive 3 second rule and no hand checking eliminates any possibility that defense is better today. There are styles of zone defense that can't even be played because players have to worry about defensive 3 second violations. Now that would be defense, zones and no defensive 3 second violations.

[draftnightsuit]

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

This is 100% false.

The NBA had illegal defense rules in the 90s that meant players were not allowed to leave their man. Standing under the rim was a technical foul.

[dhsilv2]

Finishing through contact is a concept established in the NBA's past. Why? Not to simply complete and-1 opportunities, but to play through no calls. The 90's had no calls around the rim. The amount of no calls around the rim emboldened the "statement foul" around the rim. They go hand and hand. You can't work this out statistically. It can only be worked out legislatively. The NBA implemented post 90's rules for exactly what we are seeing today. People like you turn a blind eye to the rules. The defensive 3 second rule makes it easier for guards to finish in the paint with less concern of contact with a 7 footer looking to make a statement without having to cover very much distance to make it.

Yes, the league took out non basketball plays that should never have been allowed. Beyond that shots inside vs outside aren't that different. Mid range shots have just correctly moved into 3's vs long 2's. Inside shots are taken more by guards because 3's have pulled big men out of the paint and refs not letting post players play has all but killed any viability to post big men up today. And with all of this, teams have gotten better at defending the rim while offensive players have gotten better at attacking.

Defensive 3 second rule makes that an impossibility. If one NBA team were allowed to play by 1999 defensive rules, they would most likely eventually become the best defensive team in the league today. Your argument is somehow players have become collectively better at defense even though the league has legislated aspects of it out of the game. Your proof is statistics, but those statistics aren't based upon the same factors. You get different outcomes with differing input. Defensive 3 second rule and no hand checking eliminates any possibility that defense is better today. There are styles of zone defense that can't even be played because players have to worry about defensive 3 second violations. Now that would be defense, zones and no defensive 3 second violations.

The defensive 3 seconds today really does nearly nothing here. You're not going to camp a big man under the rim with 5 shooters on the floor.

hand checking might delay the strikes to the basket, but really hand checking's value would likely come at stopping iso pull ups more than drives. Meanwhile you can't post update due to refs not calling fouls AND zone, this removes having offensive players at the rim as well.

This all has made it more important for players to rotate over, players can't be sloppy and lazy on defense and must practice proper defensive form when protecting the rim. Non traditional bigs have improved their ability to challenge shots at the rim.

Meanwhile you don't have any stats, any data...and without that you don't have anything to support your view minus biased human opinions skewed by now 20+ years between the end of the 90's and today.

[dhsilv2]

Finishing through contact is a concept established in the NBA's past. Why? Not to simply complete and-1 opportunities, but to play through no calls. The 90's had no calls around the rim. The amount of no calls around the rim emboldened the "statement foul" around the rim. They go hand and hand. You can't work this out statistically. It can only be worked out legislatively. The NBA implemented post 90's rules for exactly what we are seeing today. People like you turn a blind eye to the rules. The defensive 3 second rule makes it easier for guards to finish in the paint with less concern of contact with a 7 footer looking to make a statement without having to cover very much distance to make it.

Yes, the league took out non basketball plays that should never have been allowed. Beyond that shots inside vs outside aren't that different. Mid range shots have just correctly moved into 3's vs long 2's. Inside shots are taken more by guards because 3's have pulled big men out of the paint and refs not letting post players play has all but killed any viability to post big men up today. And with all of this, teams have gotten better at defending the rim while offensive players have gotten better at attacking.

No. The league has literally legislated that perimeter players can't be guarded as effectively by taking physical defense on the perimeter out through the rules.

Couple that with extremely loose enforcement of carrying and traveling and it's easier than ever to get to the rim.

Then why aren't teams taking meaningfully more dunks or shots at the rim? And they're not down despite a 30%+ drop is free throw attempts.

1998 (the last full year and the most defensive forward season of the 90's) - 0-3 28.6% of shots were there. 5.3% of field goals were dunks.

2021 - 25.4% of shots were at the rim 5.4% of field goals were dunks.

Hell ready for this? 3-10 17.8% vs 18.6% the shots 0-10 feet as a whole haven't meaningfully changed from 98 to 2021. This is of course not accounting for fouls drawn which likely would show more attempts and more points being generated inside but as I don't have the data, I'm not going to attempt to make that point here.

[Johnny Bball]

Ugh. There was no restricted area. You didn't have to watch your feet and take a foul anywhere within 3 feet of the basket. How could anyone think at going straight up in the air with your arms straight up is the same as having no restriction under the basket. The game was FAR more physical as a result.

And there was plenty of zone played in the 90's. People just didn't watch and think they know. Saying there was no help defesne is ignorant, there was more help, because there wasn't the same perimeter threat and five out spacing, and there wasn't five out spacing because perimeter players had a harder time scoring!

The players you know as the best in that era aside, the game in the 80's and 90's was built around bigs. Bigs that were far better defending the rim than guys today that have to space five out. And the modern small quick centre has only truly evolved in the last 6 years. and as a result of the rule schanges in the early 2000s.

EVERY single rule change the NBA has made was to free up perimeter players, open the floor, free up movement and increase scoring. The entire idea was to allow more and to drive more scoring from PERIMETER players. This is undeniable and its continually ignored in these disucssions. And it was because a few of these players were better than anyone, and were the stars of the league.

People even trying to say that the interior defense is tougher now. They don't know the impact of the rule changes including handchecking and It's mindboggling why they even try.

Here... just watch this if your going to watch BS videos about 90's 2000's defence. This is a balanced take.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=LegendOfWinning

[ropjhk]

I'd argue that rim protection in the 90's was better than it is today and that's because the area around the rim was packed with more traffic and shot blocking rim protectors who didn't stretch the floor were more playable.

Also the more relaxed rules on flagrant fouls allows defenders to be more aggressive without risk of harsh punishment.

[SelfishPlayer]

Yes, the league took out non basketball plays that should never have been allowed. Beyond that shots inside vs outside aren't that different. Mid range shots have just correctly moved into 3's vs long 2's. Inside shots are taken more by guards because 3's have pulled big men out of the paint and refs not letting post players play has all but killed any viability to post big men up today. And with all of this, teams have gotten better at defending the rim while offensive players have gotten better at attacking.

Defensive 3 second rule makes that an impossibility. If one NBA team were allowed to play by 1999 defensive rules, they would most likely eventually become the best defensive team in the league today. Your argument is somehow players have become collectively better at defense even though the league has legislated aspects of it out of the game. Your proof is statistics, but those statistics aren't based upon the same factors. You get different outcomes with differing input. Defensive 3 second rule and no hand checking eliminates any possibility that defense is better today. There are styles of zone defense that can't even be played because players have to worry about defensive 3 second violations. Now that would be defense, zones and no defensive 3 second violations.

The defensive 3 seconds today really does nearly nothing here. You're not going to camp a big man under the rim with 5 shooters on the floor.

hand checking might delay the strikes to the basket, but really hand checking's value would likely come at stopping iso pull ups more than drives. Meanwhile you can't post update due to refs not calling fouls AND zone, this removes having offensive players at the rim as well.

This all has made it more important for players to rotate over, players can't be sloppy and lazy on defense and must practice proper defensive form when protecting the rim. Non traditional bigs have improved their ability to challenge shots at the rim.

Meanwhile you don't have any stats, any data...and without that you don't have anything to support your view minus biased human opinions skewed by now 20+ years between the end of the 90's and today.

Legislation is data.

[dhsilv2]

Defensive 3 second rule makes that an impossibility. If one NBA team were allowed to play by 1999 defensive rules, they would most likely eventually become the best defensive team in the league today. Your argument is somehow players have become collectively better at defense even though the league has legislated aspects of it out of the game. Your proof is statistics, but those statistics aren't based upon the same factors. You get different outcomes with differing input. Defensive 3 second rule and no hand checking eliminates any possibility that defense is better today. There are styles of zone defense that can't even be played because players have to worry about defensive 3 second violations. Now that would be defense, zones and no defensive 3 second violations.

The defensive 3 seconds today really does nearly nothing here. You're not going to camp a big man under the rim with 5 shooters on the floor.

hand checking might delay the strikes to the basket, but really hand checking's value would likely come at stopping iso pull ups more than drives. Meanwhile you can't post update due to refs not calling fouls AND zone, this removes having offensive players at the rim as well.

This all has made it more important for players to rotate over, players can't be sloppy and lazy on defense and must practice proper defensive form when protecting the rim. Non traditional bigs have improved their ability to challenge shots at the rim.

Meanwhile you don't have any stats, any data...and without that you don't have anything to support your view minus biased human opinions skewed by now 20+ years between the end of the 90's and today.

Legislation is data.

Is this one of those "take that for data" meme posts?

[NBA Sheady]

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

This is 100% false.

The NBA had illegal defense rules in the 90s that meant players were not allowed to leave their man. Standing under the rim was a technical foul.

Only IF the guy they were supposed to be guarding was far enough away.

[dhsilv2]

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

This is 100% false.

The NBA had illegal defense rules in the 90s that meant players were not allowed to leave their man. Standing under the rim was a technical foul.

Only IF the guy they were supposed to be guarding was far enough away.

And to quote Fisher "coaches used to post guys up and send everyone else to the parking lot to clear space".

[NBA Sheady]

This is 100% false.

The NBA had illegal defense rules in the 90s that meant players were not allowed to leave their man. Standing under the rim was a technical foul.

Only IF the guy they were supposed to be guarding was far enough away.

And to quote Fisher "coaches used to post guys up and send everyone else to the parking lot to clear space".

I'm not getting how that relates to this discussion. I just wanted to point out that defensive 3 in the key is a new rule. I grew up watching Manute Bol and Mark Eaton stay parked in the lane. They only left the rim to avoid the illegal D call.

[dhsilv2]

Only IF the guy they were supposed to be guarding was far enough away.

And to quote Fisher "coaches used to post guys up and send everyone else to the parking lot to clear space".

I'm not getting how that relates to this discussion. I just wanted to point out that defensive 3 in the key is a new rule. I grew up watching Manute Bol and Mark Eaton stay parked in the lane. They only left the rim to avoid the illegal D call.

The thing is by the late 90's a lot of coaches were putting half their players in a corner, not THAT extreme, to force the refs to call illegal defense on guys like that. Teams were actively game planning around that strategy.

[Muggamills]

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

This is 100% false.

The NBA had illegal defense rules in the 90s that meant players were not allowed to leave their man. Standing under the rim was a technical foul.

You do realize majorly of the centers played near the basket ? Therefore their man would just stand under the rim?

[Ballerhogger]

In the 90s all good teams had ostertag on their team . Hardly the case now . Lakers, jazz, 76ers, heat are the only stand outs , ok and the hawks have capela

[NBA Sheady]

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

This is 100% false.

The NBA had illegal defense rules in the 90s that meant players were not allowed to leave their man. Standing under the rim was a technical foul.

You do realize majorly of the centers played near the basket ? Therefore their man would just stand under the rim?

Back then most 5's could not score at all outside the low post. So if you parked a guy in the corner the defensive 5 could still have 1 foot in the paint, they just had to be on the same side of they key as their man.

[FreeThrowLine]

Start a topic with “90’s” and it’s like a bat signal for the same 5 posters that just can’t help themselves but turn up given any opportunity to try and mislead those that weren’t around to watch that era.

All these posters do is bad mouth the 90’s as if it was some G-League compared to the skill level of today. It’s beyond annoying to see people with their obvious agenda ruin every one of these topics with their biased misinformation and terrible takes

On topic: One thing that seems to make defenders these days less likely to contest at the rim is the development of social media and sports reporting.

Get dunked on and within minutes you could be up on Twitter/Facebook/YouTube and later in the day ESPN.

I personally have much more respect for a player willing to get dunked on but at least contesting the shot because at the end of the day it’s about the teams success not your individual ‘failure’ on a single possession.

The number of times you see guys get to the rim uncontested these days and yet you still have the anti 90’s brigade dare to badmouth that era, it’s an absolute joke.

You could come up with examples of bad/lazy defense from EVERY era, using some selective clips is such a lazy and misleading ‘analysis’ of an entire era of basketball

There are guys who will contest regardless and there are guys that didn’t want to end up on a poster back in the 90’s or on social media in the 2020’s

Generally speaking, a lot of the bigs were in better position to defend the rim back in the 90’s because of how much closer they were (not regularly having to guard out to the 3 point line)

We also had the pleasure of seeing the David Robinson, Olajuwon, Mutombo, Mourning, Ewing types that brought with them a high level of intimidation in the paint. Defending the rim isn’t just about blocking the shot. Making a player change their shot can be just as if not more effective