De'Aaron Fox is quietly having a terrible season

[rpa]

For all the folks mentioning a Ben Simmons trade: the problem with that thinking is that Morey apparently thought Fox was merely a starting point. Knowing his other asks it's not unlikely that he asked the Kings for Fox and multiple 1sts/swaps.

[Scalabrine]

How is a 425% TS, 10 PER, 88 ORTG, 113 DRTG and -7.2 BPM "nice" for the 76ers?

Because those numbers in 7 games are all way below the 56ts%, 20.7 PER, 112 ORTNG, 114 DRtg, and 1.6 BPM over the past 109 Games spanning 2 seasons. Maybe that should hold a little more weight?

Hmm...by that logic, the numbers over his 270-game career should carry even more weight: 53% TS, 17 PER, 107 ORTG, 113 DRTG, -0.1 BPM--not to mention a .319 3P% and .493 eFG% for his career. Golly, not that spectacular, huh?

Fox is what he is: a good but not great scorer who's never been consistent from outside. I mean, even if I, like you, cherry pick and focus on just his two "good" years, that's still .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--not so good, huh? Fox is also a decent playmaker but gives you little else...especially on defense. That's not going to get it done for a 76er squad that now needs consistent outside shooting, good playmaking and an additional perimeter defensive presence. Hence, my post.

But since you quoted me, you must disagree. Okay, how about you walk me through why you think the 76ers should trade Simmons for Fox?

What I disagreed with, was you using his 7 games this season, instead of using the much larger sample size that show that he's better than those numbers.

It's not cherry picking at all. It's realistic to expect a young player to continue improving from his rookie season and Fox, like many others, showed continual improvement. If he had fluctuating numbers over the past two seasons, that'd be one thing, but year over year his per possession numbers showed big improvements. It's much harder to fathom that his past 7 games are what he is, then the past 2 seasons. I have no clue how you're even trying to argue that.

If the Kings were willing to include Fox in a Simmons trade, I think he'd be the best player that they would be able to get in a straight swap. Who else do you think the Sixers could realistically trade for that would be better than Fox? Brogdon? Russell? Siakam? Fox is a better player and fit than all of those guys in my opinion... where do you disagree?

[mattao313]

How is a 425% TS, 10 PER, 88 ORTG, 113 DRTG and -7.2 BPM "nice" for the 76ers?

It's still 7-8 games into the season.

Would you devalue a player for a poor 7 game stretch in a season?

If he is still playing like this by the All Star break then there is reason to worry. The same goes for all these guys - including guys like Harrison Barnes playing above their head.

No, but I sure as hell wouldn't trade an all-star--even a disgruntled all-star like Simmons--for Fox while he's playing like this.

Lmao so what are Ben Simmons stats this season.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

[taikibansei]

Because those numbers in 7 games are all way below the 56ts%, 20.7 PER, 112 ORTNG, 114 DRtg, and 1.6 BPM over the past 109 Games spanning 2 seasons. Maybe that should hold a little more weight?

Hmm...by that logic, the numbers over his 270-game career should carry even more weight: 53% TS, 17 PER, 107 ORTG, 113 DRTG, -0.1 BPM--not to mention a .319 3P% and .493 eFG% for his career. Golly, not that spectacular, huh?

Fox is what he is: a good but not great scorer who's never been consistent from outside. I mean, even if I, like you, cherry pick and focus on just his two "good" years, that's still .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--not so good, huh? Fox is also a decent playmaker but gives you little else...especially on defense. That's not going to get it done for a 76er squad that now needs consistent outside shooting, good playmaking and an additional perimeter defensive presence. Hence, my post.

But since you quoted me, you must disagree. Okay, how about you walk me through why you think the 76ers should trade Simmons for Fox?

What I disagreed with, was you using his 7 games this season, instead of using the much larger sample size that show that he's better than those numbers.

It's not cherry picking at all. It's realistic to expect a young player to continue improving from his rookie season and Fox, like many others, showed continual improvement. If he had fluctuating numbers over the past two seasons, that'd be one thing, but year over year his per possession numbers showed big improvements. It's much harder to fathom that his past 7 games are what he is, then the past 2 seasons. I have no clue how you're even trying to argue that.

If the Kings were willing to include Fox in a Simmons trade, I think he'd be the best player that they would be able to get in a straight swap. Who else do you think the Sixers could realistically trade for that would be better than Fox? Brogdon? Russell? Siakam? Fox is a better player and fit than all of those guys in my opinion... where do you disagree?

Yes, you cherry picked, and yes, yet again, even in the two "good" years you gleefully cited at me, he shot .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--which absolutely sucks for a supposed "scorer." I mean, seriously, when you quoted the 2019-20 stats at me to show what a great player Fox is, you didn't see that?

This is why I didn't--and don't--think he's a good fit for the 76ers. And this is my issue with some of the responses--I'd made clear that I was talking about his fit on the 76ers. Yes, this year's start, while hilariously bad, is likely an anomaly--but Fox has never been that good. He is a volume scorer who has at times put up good offensive numbers--but on awful efficiency, and solely on bad teams. And while he's shown himself a decent playmaker as well, he gives you nothing else, particularly on the defensive end. Accordingly, acquiring him on the 76ers would not help that team at all. Indeed, I feel it would hurt them.

As for who the 76ers should trade for instead, as I've posted repeatedly, I don't think the 76ers should trade Simmons now. There are no good options out there currently. Also, Simmons despite his flaws, gives you all-NBA playmaking, good rebounding at the guard position, and an all-defensive presence capable of guarding 1-4. Will there be any better options later? Doubtful, but somebody might become desperate later as their season starts to disintegrate (and the pressure mounts on the GMs to do something--anything--to keep their jobs). Again, this might happen--probably not--but deals like Fox will likely be available later in the season as well. No need to rush it.

[SNPA]

Hmm...by that logic, the numbers over his 270-game career should carry even more weight: 53% TS, 17 PER, 107 ORTG, 113 DRTG, -0.1 BPM--not to mention a .319 3P% and .493 eFG% for his career. Golly, not that spectacular, huh?

Fox is what he is: a good but not great scorer who's never been consistent from outside. I mean, even if I, like you, cherry pick and focus on just his two "good" years, that's still .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--not so good, huh? Fox is also a decent playmaker but gives you little else...especially on defense. That's not going to get it done for a 76er squad that now needs consistent outside shooting, good playmaking and an additional perimeter defensive presence. Hence, my post.

But since you quoted me, you must disagree. Okay, how about you walk me through why you think the 76ers should trade Simmons for Fox?

What I disagreed with, was you using his 7 games this season, instead of using the much larger sample size that show that he's better than those numbers.

It's not cherry picking at all. It's realistic to expect a young player to continue improving from his rookie season and Fox, like many others, showed continual improvement. If he had fluctuating numbers over the past two seasons, that'd be one thing, but year over year his per possession numbers showed big improvements. It's much harder to fathom that his past 7 games are what he is, then the past 2 seasons. I have no clue how you're even trying to argue that.

If the Kings were willing to include Fox in a Simmons trade, I think he'd be the best player that they would be able to get in a straight swap. Who else do you think the Sixers could realistically trade for that would be better than Fox? Brogdon? Russell? Siakam? Fox is a better player and fit than all of those guys in my opinion... where do you disagree?

Yes, you cherry picked, and yes, yet again, even in the two "good" years you gleefully cited at me, he shot .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--which absolutely sucks for a supposed "scorer." I mean, seriously, when you quoted the 2019-20 stats at me to show what a great player Fox is, you didn't see that?

This is why I didn't--and don't--think he's a good fit for the 76ers. And this is my issue with some of the responses--I'd made clear that I was talking about his fit on the 76ers. Yes, this year's start, while hilariously bad, is likely an anomaly--but Fox has never been that good. He is a volume scorer who has at times put up good offensive numbers--but on awful efficiency, and solely on bad teams. And while he's shown himself a decent playmaker as well, he gives you nothing else, particularly on the defensive end. Accordingly, acquiring him on the 76ers would not help that team at all. Indeed, I feel it would hurt them.

As for who the 76ers should trade for instead, as I've posted repeatedly, I don't think the 76ers should trade Simmons now. There are no good options out there currently. Also, Simmons despite his flaws, gives you all-NBA playmaking, good rebounding at the guard position, and an all-defensive presence capable of guarding 1-4. Will there be any better options later? Doubtful, but somebody might become desperate later as their season starts to disintegrate (and the pressure mounts on the GMs to do something--anything--to keep their jobs). Again, this might happen--probably not--but deals like Fox will likely be available later in the season as well. No need to rush it.

Lol. Been huffing the Morey fumes. Fox would be a great deal for Philly. He isn’t the best 3 shooter but check this out….he isn’t scared to shoot them. His speed would open up a lot for Philly.

[taikibansei]

What I disagreed with, was you using his 7 games this season, instead of using the much larger sample size that show that he's better than those numbers.

It's not cherry picking at all. It's realistic to expect a young player to continue improving from his rookie season and Fox, like many others, showed continual improvement. If he had fluctuating numbers over the past two seasons, that'd be one thing, but year over year his per possession numbers showed big improvements. It's much harder to fathom that his past 7 games are what he is, then the past 2 seasons. I have no clue how you're even trying to argue that.

If the Kings were willing to include Fox in a Simmons trade, I think he'd be the best player that they would be able to get in a straight swap. Who else do you think the Sixers could realistically trade for that would be better than Fox? Brogdon? Russell? Siakam? Fox is a better player and fit than all of those guys in my opinion... where do you disagree?

Yes, you cherry picked, and yes, yet again, even in the two "good" years you gleefully cited at me, he shot .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--which absolutely sucks for a supposed "scorer." I mean, seriously, when you quoted the 2019-20 stats at me to show what a great player Fox is, you didn't see that?

This is why I didn't--and don't--think he's a good fit for the 76ers. And this is my issue with some of the responses--I'd made clear that I was talking about his fit on the 76ers. Yes, this year's start, while hilariously bad, is likely an anomaly--but Fox has never been that good. He is a volume scorer who has at times put up good offensive numbers--but on awful efficiency, and solely on bad teams. And while he's shown himself a decent playmaker as well, he gives you nothing else, particularly on the defensive end. Accordingly, acquiring him on the 76ers would not help that team at all. Indeed, I feel it would hurt them.

As for who the 76ers should trade for instead, as I've posted repeatedly, I don't think the 76ers should trade Simmons now. There are no good options out there currently. Also, Simmons despite his flaws, gives you all-NBA playmaking, good rebounding at the guard position, and an all-defensive presence capable of guarding 1-4. Will there be any better options later? Doubtful, but somebody might become desperate later as their season starts to disintegrate (and the pressure mounts on the GMs to do something--anything--to keep their jobs). Again, this might happen--probably not--but deals like Fox will likely be available later in the season as well. No need to rush it.

Lol. Been huffing the Morey fumes. Fox would be a great deal for Philly. He isn’t the best 3 shooter but check this out….he isn’t scared to shoot them. His speed would open up a lot for Philly.

At .292 3P% for the season , he should be scared. ****, I would be scared to see him shoot those threes if I were in the stands--probably a better chance of him hitting me with the ball than him hitting the rim.

[Godymas]

the entire league is tanking their value so that Morey has a deal to make for Simmons

wow Morey really is the greatest GM in the league

[stormi]

At .292 3P% for the season , he should be scared. ****, I would be scared to see him shoot those threes if I were in the stands--probably a better chance of him hitting me with the ball than him hitting the rim.

cryinggggggg

[SNPA]

Yes, you cherry picked, and yes, yet again, even in the two "good" years you gleefully cited at me, he shot .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--which absolutely sucks for a supposed "scorer." I mean, seriously, when you quoted the 2019-20 stats at me to show what a great player Fox is, you didn't see that?

This is why I didn't--and don't--think he's a good fit for the 76ers. And this is my issue with some of the responses--I'd made clear that I was talking about his fit on the 76ers. Yes, this year's start, while hilariously bad, is likely an anomaly--but Fox has never been that good. He is a volume scorer who has at times put up good offensive numbers--but on awful efficiency, and solely on bad teams. And while he's shown himself a decent playmaker as well, he gives you nothing else, particularly on the defensive end. Accordingly, acquiring him on the 76ers would not help that team at all. Indeed, I feel it would hurt them.

As for who the 76ers should trade for instead, as I've posted repeatedly, I don't think the 76ers should trade Simmons now. There are no good options out there currently. Also, Simmons despite his flaws, gives you all-NBA playmaking, good rebounding at the guard position, and an all-defensive presence capable of guarding 1-4. Will there be any better options later? Doubtful, but somebody might become desperate later as their season starts to disintegrate (and the pressure mounts on the GMs to do something--anything--to keep their jobs). Again, this might happen--probably not--but deals like Fox will likely be available later in the season as well. No need to rush it.

Lol. Been huffing the Morey fumes. Fox would be a great deal for Philly. He isn’t the best 3 shooter but check this out….he isn’t scared to shoot them. His speed would open up a lot for Philly.

At .292 3P% for the season , he should be scared. ****, I would be scared to see him shoot those threes if I were in the stands--probably a better chance of him hitting me with the ball than hitting the rim.

That’s not the right number and judging percentages based on seven games is not being serious. His career is .319 with two season better including a .371 year, which was the year he got the best looks because Walton was not the coach. Put him on Philly at .350 is a completely reasonable expectation based on years of data. Or you could go off seven game…however you like.

Morey is not in a position of strength here despite how he wants it to appear.

[Lockdown504090]

Lol. Been huffing the Morey fumes. Fox would be a great deal for Philly. He isn’t the best 3 shooter but check this out….he isn’t scared to shoot them. His speed would open up a lot for Philly.

At .292 3P% for the season , he should be scared. ****, I would be scared to see him shoot those threes if I were in the stands--probably a better chance of him hitting me with the ball than hitting the rim.

That’s not the right number and judging percentages based on seven games is not being serious. His career is .319 with two season better including a .371 year, which was the year he got the best looks because Walton was not the coach. Put him on Philly at .350 is a completely reasonable expectation based on years of data. Or you could go off seven game…however you like.

Morey is not in a position of strength here despite how he wants it to appear.

his mechanics look better on a lot of his spot up shots. I think he still has room to improve there. Even if he doesnt, he gives them a transition attack and someone to take advantage of the space embiid cretes. It would be nice to see joel play with 1 good pnr threat while hes in his prime. Im not convinced its fox, but I also dont think hes a finished product just yet..

[SactoKingsFan]

He's been terrible but I'll wait a while until I get concerned. Fox will most likely play more like last season while Barnes falls off.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[taikibansei]

Lol. Been huffing the Morey fumes. Fox would be a great deal for Philly. He isn’t the best 3 shooter but check this out….he isn’t scared to shoot them. His speed would open up a lot for Philly.

At .292 3P% for the season , he should be scared. ****, I would be scared to see him shoot those threes if I were in the stands--probably a better chance of him hitting me with the ball than hitting the rim.

That’s not the right number and judging percentages based on seven games is not being serious. His career is .319 with two season better including a .371 year, which was the year he got the best looks because Walton was not the coach. Put him on Philly at .350 is a completely reasonable expectation based on years of data. Or you could go off seven game…however you like.

Morey is not in a position of strength here despite how he wants it to appear.

I wrote "he shot .292 3P%/513 eFG % in 2019-20." Yes, those are the right numbers, and yes they are for a full season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/foxde01.html

Again, those were his numbers for that whole season (or at least those games he played...). So you responded to me, but were too lazy to read what I wrote and/or couldn't look up the stats yourself?

Finally, .319% from 3 sucks as a career average too--the league average for this time has been well over .350--and particularly for a perimeter scorer who gives you little else. You're just digging yourself a bigger hole dude.

[stormi]

Fox's ft shooting has been trending downwards yearly. (sample size--) He's at 63% this year on 5+ attempts per game. He's legitimately a bad shooter. On top of being a suspect defender and overrated in isolation.

He graded out as a 50th percentile isolation scorer last season, and this year he's been even worse. This is his hallmark ability?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation/?sort=PERCENTILE&dir=1

His assertiveness and playmaking would help in an Embiid-centric offense, but he isn't some sort of crown jewel. He's been an impact metrics anchor on the Kings every season of his career for a reason. He's got a ways to go on both sides of the ball before we can consider him a winning player.

[art_tatum]

I bet the warriors and Mavs wish they still had harrison lol

[SNPA]

At .292 3P% for the season , he should be scared. ****, I would be scared to see him shoot those threes if I were in the stands--probably a better chance of him hitting me with the ball than hitting the rim.

That’s not the right number and judging percentages based on seven games is not being serious. His career is .319 with two season better including a .371 year, which was the year he got the best looks because Walton was not the coach. Put him on Philly at .350 is a completely reasonable expectation based on years of data. Or you could go off seven game…however you like.

Morey is not in a position of strength here despite how he wants it to appear.

I wrote "he shot .292 3P%/513 eFG % in 2019-20." Yes, those are the right numbers, and yes they are for a full season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/foxde01.html

Again, those were his numbers for that whole season (or at least those games he played...). So you responded to me, but were too lazy to read what I wrote and/or couldn't look up the stats yourself?

Finally, .319% from 3 sucks as a career average too--the league average for this time has been well over .350--and particularly for a perimeter scorer who gives you little else. You're just digging yourself a bigger hole dude.

Ok. A not yet 24 year old PG, fastest player in the game, that put up 25/7/3.5 is a terrible player and Morey is a genius that will get a haul of epic proportions. Good luck bro. Some Philly fans are detached on this issue.

[Scalabrine]

Hmm...by that logic, the numbers over his 270-game career should carry even more weight: 53% TS, 17 PER, 107 ORTG, 113 DRTG, -0.1 BPM--not to mention a .319 3P% and .493 eFG% for his career. Golly, not that spectacular, huh?

Fox is what he is: a good but not great scorer who's never been consistent from outside. I mean, even if I, like you, cherry pick and focus on just his two "good" years, that's still .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--not so good, huh? Fox is also a decent playmaker but gives you little else...especially on defense. That's not going to get it done for a 76er squad that now needs consistent outside shooting, good playmaking and an additional perimeter defensive presence. Hence, my post.

But since you quoted me, you must disagree. Okay, how about you walk me through why you think the 76ers should trade Simmons for Fox?

What I disagreed with, was you using his 7 games this season, instead of using the much larger sample size that show that he's better than those numbers.

It's not cherry picking at all. It's realistic to expect a young player to continue improving from his rookie season and Fox, like many others, showed continual improvement. If he had fluctuating numbers over the past two seasons, that'd be one thing, but year over year his per possession numbers showed big improvements. It's much harder to fathom that his past 7 games are what he is, then the past 2 seasons. I have no clue how you're even trying to argue that.

If the Kings were willing to include Fox in a Simmons trade, I think he'd be the best player that they would be able to get in a straight swap. Who else do you think the Sixers could realistically trade for that would be better than Fox? Brogdon? Russell? Siakam? Fox is a better player and fit than all of those guys in my opinion... where do you disagree?

Yes, you cherry picked, and yes, yet again, even in the two "good" years you gleefully cited at me, he shot .292 3P%/513 eFG % (2019-20) and .322 3P%/523eFG% (2020-21)--which absolutely sucks for a supposed "scorer." I mean, seriously, when you quoted the 2019-20 stats at me to show what a great player Fox is, you didn't see that?

This is why I didn't--and don't--think he's a good fit for the 76ers. And this is my issue with some of the responses--I'd made clear that I was talking about his fit on the 76ers. Yes, this year's start, while hilariously bad, is likely an anomaly--but Fox has never been that good. He is a volume scorer who has at times put up good offensive numbers--but on awful efficiency, and solely on bad teams. And while he's shown himself a decent playmaker as well, he gives you nothing else, particularly on the defensive end. Accordingly, acquiring him on the 76ers would not help that team at all. Indeed, I feel it would hurt them.

As for who the 76ers should trade for instead, as I've posted repeatedly, I don't think the 76ers should trade Simmons now. There are no good options out there currently. Also, Simmons despite his flaws, gives you all-NBA playmaking, good rebounding at the guard position, and an all-defensive presence capable of guarding 1-4. Will there be any better options later? Doubtful, but somebody might become desperate later as their season starts to disintegrate (and the pressure mounts on the GMs to do something--anything--to keep their jobs). Again, this might happen--probably not--but deals like Fox will likely be available later in the season as well. No need to rush it.

Oh so you're one of those that think Ben Simmons is gonna play for the Sixers again? Thats your answer here????

Youre saying that Fox is a terrible shooter but propping up Ben Simmons "despite his flaws"???? I mean, lets just move on here... clearly you're on another planet if you think Ben Simmons is gonna play for the Sixers. That ship has long sailed.