NBA with Relegation/Promotion

[AbeVigodaLive]

Whew... good thing this never relegation thing never happened in the NBA.

As a Timberwolves fan, I'd be watching the local pro team battle local high school JV times nightly at this point.

[dc]

Greetings!

As both a long-time NBA and soccer (Flamengo & Brazil) fan, I often wonder whether relegation/promotion would improve competition in the NBA. One problem I see is that the teams are both supposedly competitors and a closed cooperative organization, but perhaps a new team that enters can buy the shares of the teams being relegated. What I envision is a series B, which could consist of G-League teams. The two finalists (or even 4) would rise into the NBA, and the two worst teams of the NBA would be relegated.

Teams would then be required to do more than make a half-hearted attempt to win, because no team wants to be relegated. One issue I see is that top picks are not going to want to be drafted by teams destined for the G-League, and I wonder whether their pick(s) could be postponed until they achieve promotion.

Thoughts?

It's been mentioned several times, but a relegation system in the US will never, ever work for any sport.

The reason it works for European Soccer is because soccer is the only sport anyone watches. Every other sport is essentially about as popular as bowling. So there will always be loyal followers for 2nd and 3rd division soccer teams, especially if there's family heritage dating back for decades that everyone has always been a fan of said team.

A relegation battle is a big deal for teams that obviously have no hope of ever winning a title in 1st division. Essentially, it becomes their "championship" if they ever make it to 1st division, or they are able to knock a rival down to 2nd division. That's a big deal to those fans and serves as a story line to make things compelling. The system works in Europe because people will still watch a 2nd/3rd division soccer league over another sport.

Now look at the NBA. Would anyone pay any attention to the T-Wolves and Pistons battling it out to stay out of being relegated to the G-League? No, they would just watch a different sport. There are many to choose from in the US.Nobody in the US would watch that and the owners of those teams would watch the values of their teams go down the toilet.

US sports try their best to implement a salary structure so that every team in the league (in theory) can compete for a championship, or at the very least they want to do everything they can do eliminate the financial advantages the big market teams have.

European soccer doesn't have that. It's understood and accepted by the fans and players that the big dogs will always be the big dogs and the lower level teams will always be the lower level teams. Everyone knows those small clubs will never win a 1st league title, so something like a lower level team winning a relegation battle is essentially the equivalent of a "championship" for that team and its fans.

[magee]

MLB is a horrible sport to cater an adjusted system like this. Their minor league players don't get paid **** in relation to the work they put in and it's just now starting to be addressed because of the public backlash recently.

As far as relegation, it won't happen. I'd much rather see a Loan system put in place with Comp picks in place, or Comp picks in place like the NFL has for free agents leaving. Otherwise, I like the idea of relegation, just not feasible in the NBA.

The G-League still has a LOT of work to do to become an official minor league. They're on their way. Two more draft rounds and some adjustments to contracts would help develop the game stateside.

[Doctor MJ]

Greetings!

As both a long-time NBA and soccer (Flamengo & Brazil) fan, I often wonder whether relegation/promotion would improve competition in the NBA. One problem I see is that the teams are both supposedly competitors and a closed cooperative organization, but perhaps a new team that enters can buy the shares of the teams being relegated. What I envision is a series B, which could consist of G-League teams. The two finalists (or even 4) would rise into the NBA, and the two worst teams of the NBA would be relegated.

Teams would then be required to do more than make a half-hearted attempt to win, because no team wants to be relegated. One issue I see is that top picks are not going to want to be drafted by teams destined for the G-League, and I wonder whether their pick(s) could be postponed until they achieve promotion.

Thoughts?

I absolutely wish all major American team sports had relegation/promotion. To me everything would be better if such a system had existed as these leagues were built up over time.

However, I don't see any way to implement it now. No NBA owner wants to risk getting relegated.

[dc]

I absolutely wish all major American team sports had relegation/promotion. To me everything would be better if such a system had existed as these leagues were built up over time.

However, I don't see any way to implement it now. No NBA owner wants to risk getting relegated.

If you're a big market fan, you wouldn't have a problem with the European system.

The system in Europe (with the lack of salary structure, etc..) more or less guarantees the top dogs will always be the top dogs.....as it is now and always has been.

There will rarely be "emerging teams" that get built from the ground up and become powerhouses....unless of course they get bought by a deep pocketed owner. Those small teams are just feeder teams for the big dogs.

For players, it's essentially understood that moving up from a small club to a mid-level club to Real Madrid is all considered a promotion in their career at each step up. Nobody gets shamed for disloyalty. Nobody asks these young stars why they didn't want to stick around with their smaller club to try to "build something from the ground up." It's accepted that it's the natural order of things for a smaller club to eventually have their young star move on to a bigger club.

Basically, in the Euro system, Giannis would've already left the Bucks for the Lakers.

NBA fans and this forum would absolutely hate the Euro soccer system way of doing things.

[Time for Change]

As has been stated, it won’t work because of the franchise system.

However out of all US sports, basketball (not the NBA, but basketball as a sport) is probably most suited to the promotion-relegation system. There’s a huge player base, and you only need about 10-12 players to form a team. No expensive equipment is needed and places to play are plentiful.

All pickup and local games across the country would just need to be formalized into clubs and leagues, then each league promotes a couple teams each season. So let’s say 10,000 teams in 1000 leagues, after the first season you have a level 2 with the 2000 promoted teams in 200 leagues each which promotes and relegates, you keep doing that until eventually after several years you have a premier league with about 25 teams with 3-4 relegated and 3-4 promoted from the lower leagues per year.

[Richard4444]

The relegation system is impossible in NBA.

1) Teams owners would not allow it. They will lose too much money if their team gets relegated. In a second division, they will make far less revenue. They invested too much money in stadiums, training facilities, buying the franchising's control, roster to risk relegation.

2) There is not a "second division" in NBA. What teams could enter in NBA and be competitive? G-League teams? The difference in budget and structure is huge. I don't think G league teams are aiming to be NBA franchises and they could not afford to compete with NBA franchises financially. Besides, they are affiliated with NBA teams, and a lot of teams would not be allowed to join NBA because they are controlled by the same groups of NBA teams and they could try to manipulate games.

3) The whole idea of the NBA structure is to help competitiveness. The cap space system tries to impede a team from overspent in a way to use financial power to build a superteam and dominate the league. And the draft system helps bottom-end teams to recover. On the other hand, the relegation system does the opposite: punish the weak. To implement the relegation system, I think they would need to abolish the draft system and maybe also soften the cap space rules. It does not make sense to help the small market system with some rules and harm them with other rules.

3) Assuming the draft system is kept, it would be very bad for NBA that the Top talent players would begin in the second division. They could be playing at the second division for their whole rookie contract if their team sucks. They would never properly develop playing against weak competition in the G-League for so much time.

4) Only big market franchises can survive in G-league kind of revenues for a couple of seasons. Small market teams would end after being relegated.

5) Brazilian soccer is in a huge crisis in terms of balance among franchises and quality of gameplay. The level was astonishing until 2000/2005. There were great players. And there were about 10 teams who could be the winner every year. Now, the teams are bad. The games are boring. Flamengo is almost the only exception. It's the franchise with more fans and more money to spend and they made really great teams for the past 5 years.

[DaPessimist]

The NBA needs to build the G-League into a legitimate minor league before they can ever consider relegation/promotion.

[TheHartBreakKid]

Greetings!

As both a long-time NBA and soccer (Flamengo & Brazil) fan, I often wonder whether relegation/promotion would improve competition in the NBA. One problem I see is that the teams are both supposedly competitors and a closed cooperative organization, but perhaps a new team that enters can buy the shares of the teams being relegated. What I envision is a series B, which could consist of G-League teams. The two finalists (or even 4) would rise into the NBA, and the two worst teams of the NBA would be relegated.

Teams would then be required to do more than make a half-hearted attempt to win, because no team wants to be relegated. One issue I see is that top picks are not going to want to be drafted by teams destined for the G-League, and I wonder whether their pick(s) could be postponed until they achieve promotion.

Thoughts?

I absolutely wish all major American team sports had relegation/promotion. To me everything would be better if such a system had existed as these leagues were built up over time.

However, I don't see any way to implement it now. No NBA owner wants to risk getting relegated.

It's just the simple sad reality of it. There is no logical way to implement it now that makes sense.

It's a gift and a curse. Yes i agree that the league would benefit from such a system in a vacuume in the present day, but i don't believe the NBA would have ever reached these heights if it started off with such a system.

[TheHartBreakKid]

The NBA needs to build the G-League into a legitimate minor league before they can ever consider relegation/promotion.

this, to me, is the more likely expansion scenario. Hopefully get rid of the NCAA and allow players to join the G league straight out of high school or something like that..

[DCasey91]

Yep G League with 3-4 years of cycled draft prospects. If the NBA takes it seriously that’s a great domestic development budding ground for the future. (Should have been done ages ago).

With the age restriction being lifted you don’t want to dilute the product even more.

Relegation/Promotion won’t happen in the NBA it’s too owner heavy protecting their asset. Also soft cap/draft system too.

Also don’t worry about the physical stuff if they are ready to play on the level they should be then by all means. Generally speaking youngsters don’t get held back when it’s obvious they are a class above. Helps the learning/fixing curves much greater and takes out bad habits.

For example Banch in high school should not be playing in high school. That’s a grown man child. He’s in College now

Flipside is Jalen Green. Much too raw for a second pick. Your a superstar in high school but now do the below. Jack 20+ shots, dunk on everyone but what are you learning about the game?

Now subtract 2 years and add on 2 full years in a dev program with a team say the Lakers. AD, Lebron seniors? That’s what I mean by proper development. Sports around the world do it all the time for months and years on end. Youth trains with the Seniors it catapults their development big time.

Also youth academy should be priority number one along with zone picks. If you create the homegrown talent factory then you deserve to keep the player/players.

You like/scouted and recruited a junior in high school sign him for 4 years, interesting results occur.

Earlier post mentioned the 20 total list (2 full playing squads). Stuff like the above should be normal and backed to the hills.

[JLiv]

Parity’s already an issue and would be worsened by a relegation system. Why would a top free agent choose to take their talents to The Motor City Cruise? Do relegated teams get to win the lottery? I think this causes more problems, and think there are easier ways to ensure all teams have an incentive to be competitive. Wait, why do we care if every Detroit Pistons franchise out there has a Derrick Rose and Blake Griffin to keep them respectable, again?

[monopoman]

Even if this idea was feasible, I have a feeling most NBA fans would hate it after it was implemented.

Just because something works in Europe doesn't mean it works here.

[Big J]

Lotta hate being spewed at this idea, but I love it. Could you imagine a guy like Kyrie having eat humble pie and play against minor leaguers. That’s something we all could appreciate.

[Richard4444]

Even if this idea was feasible, I have a feeling most NBA fans would hate it after it was implemented.

Just because something works in Europe doesn't mean it works here.

The 13 biggest European teams tried to create a no-relegation league to protect their investments after Covid losses.

But the small/medium teams and majority of soccer fans reacted and the league was canceled.

[Doctor MJ]

It's just the simple sad reality of it. There is no logical way to implement it now that makes sense.

It's a gift and a curse. Yes i agree that the league would benefit from such a system in a vacuume in the present day, but i don't believe the NBA would have ever reached these heights if it started off with such a system.

Very interesting question to consider. Multi-faceted.

I'm inclined to say that the question for me isn't so much whether the NBA would have succeeded in that system, but rather, what ingredients did you need to actually "bake" an English football pyramid from scratch?

I believe that basketball really came along too late to have any chance at it, and it's noteworthy that while baseball and hockey in North America had a chance to make the same thing, there are major differences (that aren't as charming as the pyramid imho).

My sense is that the density of the English population at an early enough date relative to the mass media revolution(s) was critical to allowing this to happen.

[ciueli]

Relegation works in soccer because a soccer team is usually bigger than any single player. In basketball it's very star driven, so if your team gets hit by injuries, well guess what - your team might be relegated to the G-League next season.

So then your team is playing a full season in the G-League, but hey, all those injured guys are back now and your team is utterly destroying every team it faces by 40 points every night when they should be playing in the big leagues. Sounds like about the dumbest system imaginable to me.

[Sactowndog]

Capitalism says no.

Says no to what? The American way?

Like much in the US, capitalism is a farce.

If you want capitalism, eliminate the draft and let players join whomever wants to pay them the most like in European Football.

If you want capitalism allow a team with better management and a willingness to spend start a team and work their way up instead of holding cities hostage for subsidies.

Nothing about the US system is capitalism. It is completely monied interests using political power to gain profit. Like much of the US. The US system is a contrived oligopoly. The European system is capitalism.

[Sactowndog]

The relegation system is impossible in NBA.

1) Teams owners would not allow it. They will lose too much money if their team gets relegated. In a second division, they will make far less revenue. They invested too much money in stadiums, training facilities, buying the franchising's control, roster to risk relegation.

2) There is not a "second division" in NBA. What teams could enter in NBA and be competitive? G-League teams? The difference in budget and structure is huge. I don't think G league teams are aiming to be NBA franchises and they could not afford to compete with NBA franchises financially. Besides, they are affiliated with NBA teams, and a lot of teams would not be allowed to join NBA because they are controlled by the same groups of NBA teams and they could try to manipulate games.

3) The whole idea of the NBA structure is to help competitiveness. The cap space system tries to impede a team from overspent in a way to use financial power to build a superteam and dominate the league. And the draft system helps bottom-end teams to recover. On the other hand, the relegation system does the opposite: punish the weak. To implement the relegation system, I think they would need to abolish the draft system and maybe also soften the cap space rules. It does not make sense to help the small market system with some rules and harm them with other rules.

3) Assuming the draft system is kept, it would be very bad for NBA that the Top talent players would begin in the second division. They could be playing at the second division for their whole rookie contract if their team sucks. They would never properly develop playing against weak competition in the G-League for so much time.

4) Only big market franchises can survive in G-league kind of revenues for a couple of seasons. Small market teams would end after being relegated.

5) Brazilian soccer is in a huge crisis in terms of balance among franchises and quality of gameplay. The level was astonishing until 2000/2005. There were great players. And there were about 10 teams who could be the winner every year. Now, the teams are bad. The games are boring. Flamengo is almost the only exception. It's the franchise with more fans and more money to spend and they made really great teams for the past 5 years.

If you eliminated the draft you could do it quickly but you would also like in European Soccer see a shift to the big city teams dominating. It’s not a surprise teams from London, Manchester, Madrid, Paris, Milan, Munich, Barcelona, Rome dominate the Champions league.

[gom]

Even if this idea was feasible, I have a feeling most NBA fans would hate it after it was implemented.

Just because something works in Europe doesn't mean it works here.

The 13 biggest European teams tried to create a no-relegation league to protect their investments after Covid losses.

But the small/medium teams and majority of soccer fans reacted and the league was canceled.

This actually happened in Brazil too. It was called the Copa União. For years Flamengo and Sport argued about who was the real champion.

Spoiler:

It was Flamengo.