LeBron joins the Top 10 in Steals

[MarcusBrody]

Nearly 600 steals separates 1st from 2nd place. That's crazy.

And it's a greater difference than between 2 and 10.

[og15]

Nearly 600 steals separates 1st from 2nd place. That's crazy.

Stockton is ridiculous, combination of longevity and durability in addition to being great at steals, and of course there's some luck involved in having a 19 year career where you don't get any serious injury that keeps you out for a lot of games.

He's also the All-Time leader in turnovers with 4685. He'll likely be the first player to hit 5K turnovers by the end of his career. His only hope is that Westbrook passes him eventually (he's already over 4K turnovers).

19 seasons and counting with around 73 games/season (in previous 18) and being a leader in pts/asts on a yearly basis, with an average of 27 ppg and 7 apg, if that sort of player was not top in turnovers too, it would be even extra extremely impressive

[Rainwater]

Style is not era dependent. Different styles work differently in different eras. I do value styles that work across eras but it’s balanced against how successful a player was in their era. I fully agree with the evaluative view that players can only play the teams/players put in front of them.

Playing in a historically weak conference effects how accomplishments are viewed. That’s the reality of it. This has been part of the Bird/Magic debate for decades. Same applies to era, stats are relative to era.

I disagree style depends on the era you played in or grew up in. I feel like a lot of guys would adjust their games to fit the era. For, If MJ grew up in this error he would likely be shooting a lot more 3s.

I just can't hold the conf a player plays against that player, he can't control this If a guy is talented he is talented.

I agree a player develops his style within his own era and the influences that provides. Some players are more portable though, I value that. I think the GOAT should be the GOAT when evaluating across all eras.

As for conference, post season success in James’ East vs Bird’s is not apples to apples. Not all competition is of equal quality. This isn’t controversial, James played most of his career in a weak conference. That’s what happened. It’s fact. It has to be considered in a player evaluation

You make some good points and we just have different criteria. I just can't agree on the conferences. I just can't judge a player for things they cannot control. LBJ did play in a weaker conf for the majority of his career but he would still be the same player if he played in the western conference, doesn't make him any less of a player.

Things like championships and conferences should have little barring on how good a player is. Championships are team accolades highly dependent supporting players and conferences you can't control.

[Sofia]

There are very serious hardcore experienced fans who don’t have James 1/2. If this is surprising it shouldn’t be. James has great skills but he is far from the perfect player, others are better in meaningful ways.

Out of curiosity, where have you, er I mean the other serious hardcore experienced fans, got Lebron ranked?

If James not being a lock for top two is new info we are to far apart to have a productive conversation.

FYI I have no problem with people that have James top two. I think they are wrong but it’s not a “wild” view. I just think over time his style and limitations will cause him to slip in people’s eyes.

Lol. That’s what normally happens, not sure why that’d be a wild take. Vegas would be on my slide here.

I agree that it would be reasonable to have him at 3 or 4, but I was curious as to how far you think he could reasonably slide, noting your earlier post about his era/conference maybe not being able to stand up in the future.