MVP will be determined by tomorrow's Embiid v Jokic showdown

[eyeatoma]

Is Embiid actually going to play this time? He seems to always need a day off or have a broken nail every time they play the Nuggets.

Lol you really are a big Embiid hater. Surprising how egregious it is from a retired mod.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Stating a fact is now being a hater? They have played 5 games against each other in 7 years because Embiid always misses the game. Funny how you are continually resorting to personal attacks since you have no arguments for your boy.

Finding every possible way to disparage Embiid, does make it sound like you're a hater. If you actually dug into every time he missed time, most of it was for a longer term injury, where he wasn't specifically 'dodging' Jokic. Others were because it was a long road trip and the Sixers were trying to get Embiid some rest. Either way I don't really believe the Embiid/Jokic rivalry started gaining much steam until 2 years ago in the bubble, so not sure how he would be dodging him for the last 7 years. Embiid was widely considered the better player for the first half of their careers while Jokic was playing backup behind Nurkic. So if this crackpot theory was even somewhat true, it wouldn't make much sense for Embiid to be avoiding someone who never averaged over 21 points until 2 years ago, and only became a regular starter in 2017-18.

So I wouldn't really call what you just said, a fact.

[FreeThrowLine]

They should give the MVP to AD

They have a MVP award for sitting on the bench when your team really needs you?

It’s all up for interpretation

[DroseReturnChi]

Jokic deserves the MVP more than Embiid does. If it weren't for his 12 FTA a game, Joel wouldn't be considered the MVP. I understand the way he plays generates a lot of foul calls, but Jokic gets too many non-calls. He takes 63% of his shots within 10 feet compared to Joel's 43.2% and generates less than half the FTA. The man really should be at 28 PPG with all the non-calls defenders get away with.

this is the problem with basketball officiating, by rules, level of contact is determined to be a foul based on how it affects the speed, rhythm quickness and balance of a player, not about how hard they get hit. This is why I cannot fault guys for doing it, because how the hell else do you get calls. Even jokic has to and does exaggerate contact to get calls or else he is hurting his team. The problem is that hes not great at it because hes very focused on making the baskets. value of free throws is a little too high in basketball.

i dont care joel can cheat his way to inflate stats. great genuine players dont take shortcuts they dont focus on rs but show their true value in ps. this is the exact reason why joel plummets while jokic elevates his gameplay playoff time when it matters.
what joel is getting is star calls and some of them are deserved because he is a one trick pony bruiser who makes his living on the ft line. the refs are automatically blowing because they are too accustomed to it. in the end there are mvp caliber guys who are only for regular seasons and then theres guys like kawhi leonards who only collects final mvps.

[eyeatoma]

Jokic deserves the MVP more than Embiid does. If it weren't for his 12 FTA a game, Joel wouldn't be considered the MVP. I understand the way he plays generates a lot of foul calls, but Jokic gets too many non-calls. He takes 63% of his shots within 10 feet compared to Joel's 43.2% and generates less than half the FTA. The man really should be at 28 PPG with all the non-calls defenders get away with.

this is the problem with basketball officiating, by rules, level of contact is determined to be a foul based on how it affects the speed, rhythm quickness and balance of a player, not about how hard they get hit. This is why I cannot fault guys for doing it, because how the hell else do you get calls. Even jokic has to and does exaggerate contact to get calls or else he is hurting his team. The problem is that hes not great at it because hes very focused on making the baskets. value of free throws is a little too high in basketball.

i dont care joel can cheat his way to inflate stats. great genuine players dont take shortcuts they dont focus on rs but show their true value in ps. this is the exact reason why joel plummets while jokic elevates his gameplay playoff time when it matters.

Jokic has made the conference finals all of one time. That happened in the bubble, known for it's inflated stats across many teams, so that should really have an asterisk attached to it. Last year, in his "elevated playoffs", he had a game where he got ejected out of frustration. More of his anger management issues were seen this year, when he shoved Morris in the back (I know he deserved it) and caused a career threatening injury.

Lets stop the narrative that Jokic has been far more successful in the playoffs. Unless you've won a championship everything else is inconsequential.

Jokic has made the ECF once, Embiid has made the semifinals every season except for 1 year.

[druggas]

What happens if their game stats are similar?

[Hussien Fatal]

I used to think Embiid’s impact was higher due to his physicality but I don’t anymore with the leap Jokic has made. Didn’t know he was only 26, he plays like he’s 30.

Amazingly both average 33.1 minutes per. My vote today is for Jokic pretty easily regardless of the notion that Harden weakens Embiid’s perceived share of winning value. When I watch him play it totally lines up with the gap in advanced metrics he has over every living being. Embiid, awesome player obviously, simply doesn’t pile up winning plays at the ridiculously rapid rate Jokic does. His 2 point percentage, cutting, and ability to initiate sets is just too much for Embiid’s bully ball and FT baiting to bear when Jokic’s defensive awareness and positioning has improved so much.

Should be a great tilt, can’t wait. I’ll be switching back and forth watching the Hawks drag the Blazers.

Saying Embiid doesn’t rack up winning plays like Jokic is the most ridiculous statement said in this thread.

Embiid: 37-17 win% 69% 2nd seed
Jokic: 38-23 win% 62% 6th seed (1 seed away from play in)

Joel even has a much higher career win% as well. Despite all the the advanced stats Joel has a higher impact on winning.

[Hussien Fatal]

People saying Embiid is ducking Jokic is crazy, in his career Embiid is 4-1 vs Jokic. It doesn’t make sense to be scared of someone you beat 80% of the time.

[LordCovington33]

This should have a poll. lol I can assure you, if Denver wins, they will come racing here to say that the match has determined the winner. If they lose, they will say it was just one game.
For the record, it is just one game IMO. Which is why I disagree with the mod in the MVP thread who said the Brooklyn match played a huge role in Embiid’s MVP fortunes.

[LordCovington33]

Is Embiid actually going to play this time? He seems to always need a day off or have a broken nail every time they play the Nuggets.

Lol you really are a big Embiid hater. Surprising how egregious it is from a retired mod.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Stating a fact is now being a hater? They have played 5 games against each other in 7 years because Embiid always misses the game. Funny how you are continually resorting to personal attacks since you have no arguments for your boy.

Out of curiosity, what’s the head-to-head record for those 5 games?

[Wigginstime]

People saying Embiid is ducking Jokic is crazy, in his career Embiid is 4-1 vs Jokic. It doesn’t make sense to be scared of someone you beat 80% of the time.

You king of just proved everyones point. Those 5 games you reference are all 3+ years ago before Jokic emerged into a top 5 player in the NBA. Embiid has skipped every game against Jokic for the past 3 years. Aka the reason everyone is saying Embiid is ducking Jokic. Crazy that they haven't played each other since 2019.

[Cubbies2120]

Embiid was widely considered the better player for the first half of their careers while Jokic was playing backup behind Nurkic. So if this crackpot theory was even somewhat true, it wouldn't make much sense for Embiid to be avoiding someone who never averaged over 21 points until 2 years ago, and only became a regular starter in 2017-18.

So I wouldn't really call what you just said, a fact.

You know Jokic went to Mike Malone and said he'll come off the bench, because Nurk + Jokic duo wasn't working?

Or do you believe Nurkic was the superior player?

https://clutchpoints.com/nuggets-news-nikola-jokic-asked-come-off-bench-before-jusuf-nurkic-was-traded/

Jokic also, as the "never averaging 21ppg guy" was somehow killing Embiid in the 3 matchups they had before Jokic was worthy of being a rival

3 games:
Jokic:
22/8/6 with on 49% shooting

Embiid:
19/10/3 on 36% shooting

Not bad for a guy who "wasn't good enough to be a rival to Embiid" at the time, right?

[Cubbies2120]

People saying Embiid is ducking Jokic is crazy, in his career Embiid is 4-1 vs Jokic. It doesn’t make sense to be scared of someone you beat 80% of the time.

Weird how Jokic outplayed him in those 5 games though, despite Jokic "not being on his level". Either that says Jokic owns real estate in Embiid's head, or Embiid just can't guard Jokic, period.

Embiid: 37.6% from field vs. Jokic
Jokic: 51.2% from field vs. Embiid

A 14% difference, while scoring more, assisting more...

https://www.landofbasketball.com/games_between/joel_embiid_vs_nikola_jokic.htm

Also, re: "It's just coincidence and part of longer injuries that Embiid misses the games!":

In 2019 season:
Plays 6 games, misses Nuggets game, plays next 8 games

In 2021 season:
Plays 6 games, misses Nuggets game, plays next 3 games

In 2022 season:
Legit excuse, he had Covid and took a while to recover - can't blame him here

[Cubbies2120]

Lets stop the narrative that Jokic has been far more successful in the playoffs. Unless you've won a championship everything else is inconsequential.

Jokic has made the ECF once, Embiid has made the semifinals every season except for 1 year.

Jokic hasn't ever been swept out of the first round, and he has led his team to a conference finals losing to the eventual champion.

He has been more successful in the 3 years he's been in the playoffs, but I agree it hasn't been "far more" success.

[Ring_Me]

Ja Morant might have something to say about this.

I love Ja, but he’s not even favored over Giannis

Demar is above those two.

[Wolfgang630]

Embiid was widely considered the better player for the first half of their careers while Jokic was playing backup behind Nurkic. So if this crackpot theory was even somewhat true, it wouldn't make much sense for Embiid to be avoiding someone who never averaged over 21 points until 2 years ago, and only became a regular starter in 2017-18.

So I wouldn't really call what you just said, a fact.

You know Jokic went to Mike Malone and said he'll come off the bench, because Nurk + Jokic duo wasn't working?

Or do you believe Nurkic was the superior player?

https://clutchpoints.com/nuggets-news-nikola-jokic-asked-come-off-bench-before-jusuf-nurkic-was-traded/

Jokic also, as the "never averaging 21ppg guy" was somehow killing Embiid in the 3 matchups they had before Jokic was worthy of being a rival

3 games:
Jokic:
22/8/6 with on 49% shooting

Embiid:
19/10/3 on 36% shooting

Not bad for a guy who "wasn't good enough to be a rival to Embiid" at the time, right?

I do find it funny when people look at the wins and losses in the head to head matchup. It’s not like they’re playing 1 on 1. They’re playing 5 on 5. These stats are more important than the wins and losses.

[Haldi]

Jokic deserves the MVP more than Embiid does. If it weren't for his 12 FTA a game, Joel wouldn't be considered the MVP. I understand the way he plays generates a lot of foul calls, but Jokic gets too many non-calls. He takes 63% of his shots within 10 feet compared to Joel's 43.2% and generates less than half the FTA. The man really should be at 28 PPG with all the non-calls defenders get away with.

The fix for this is for refs to start calling all the fouls against Jokic too, not to eliminate Embiid from MVP talks just because he’s getting fouled a ton too and actually gets a lot of the calls for it lol. People’s logic for these things is getting worse and worse…

Poor arm slapping defense and terrible defensive positioning should NEVER be rewarded. I would rather watch 100 free throws per game then watch defenders making mistakes after mistakes against superior offensive players and get away with it as “defensive stops”

[maxpower8888]

Jokic deserves the MVP more than Embiid does. If it weren't for his 12 FTA a game, Joel wouldn't be considered the MVP. I understand the way he plays generates a lot of foul calls, but Jokic gets too many non-calls. He takes 63% of his shots within 10 feet compared to Joel's 43.2% and generates less than half the FTA. The man really should be at 28 PPG with all the non-calls defenders get away with.

The fix for this is for refs to start calling all the fouls against Jokic too, not to eliminate Embiid from MVP talks just because he’s getting fouled a ton too and actually gets a lot of the calls for it lol. People’s logic for these things is getting worse and worse…

Poor arm slapping defense and terrible defensive positioning should NEVER be rewarded. I would rather watch 100 free throws per game then watch defenders making mistakes after mistakes against superior offensive players and get away with it as “defensive stops”

Nowhere did I suggest that Joel should go to the line less. I clearly suggested that Jokic should go to the line more, and if he did, he would be the clear MVP favorite.

[Wolfgang630]

Jokic deserves the MVP more than Embiid does. If it weren't for his 12 FTA a game, Joel wouldn't be considered the MVP. I understand the way he plays generates a lot of foul calls, but Jokic gets too many non-calls. He takes 63% of his shots within 10 feet compared to Joel's 43.2% and generates less than half the FTA. The man really should be at 28 PPG with all the non-calls defenders get away with.

The fix for this is for refs to start calling all the fouls against Jokic too, not to eliminate Embiid from MVP talks just because he’s getting fouled a ton too and actually gets a lot of the calls for it lol. People’s logic for these things is getting worse and worse…

Poor arm slapping defense and terrible defensive positioning should NEVER be rewarded. I would rather watch 100 free throws per game then watch defenders making mistakes after mistakes against superior offensive players and get away with it as “defensive stops”

Nowhere did I suggest that Joel should go to the line less. I clearly suggested that Jokic should go to the line more, and if he did, he would be the clear MVP favorite.

I agree Joker should be going to the line more.

[Haldi]

The fix for this is for refs to start calling all the fouls against Jokic too, not to eliminate Embiid from MVP talks just because he’s getting fouled a ton too and actually gets a lot of the calls for it lol. People’s logic for these things is getting worse and worse…

Poor arm slapping defense and terrible defensive positioning should NEVER be rewarded. I would rather watch 100 free throws per game then watch defenders making mistakes after mistakes against superior offensive players and get away with it as “defensive stops”

Nowhere did I suggest that Joel should go to the line less. I clearly suggested that Jokic should go to the line more, and if he did, he would be the clear MVP favorite.

I agree Joker should be going to the line more.

I also agree with this, what I disagree with is that Jokic should win MVP and Embiid be eliminated from the discussion because Embiid does get a lot of his calls and Jokic doesn’t. That we should give the MVP to Jokic based on assumption instead of how their season is actually going. We can’t make the refs call ALL the fouls on Jokic but i do very much wish they would, watching poor Jokic gets slapped up by terrible defenders that have no other way to stop him all game long is much worse basketball then watching tons of free throws.

[TroubleS0me]

xiaolin showdown