Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New York Knicks

[hippesthippo]

Clean house and cap space. Keep Mitch, RJ and IQ. Tank, add an elite 23 talent and from then on you have a real future.

Unfortunately this won’t happen.. or isn’t very likely to. The draft really doesn’t matter to this franchise.. even tho it should. Like someone else said the Knicks need to start operating with the same mindset of a small market team until the foundation of a consistent winner with high upside is built. This may never happen as long as Dolan is owner tho.. which doesn’t make sense considering they sell out even when they’re awful

The draft should matter to every single franchise. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Take a look at some other big markets, for example:

LA: Drafted Kobe Bryant and role players Derek Fisher and Devean George before acquiring Shaq which put them over the top. Kobe won again with Andrew Bynum [drafted by Lakers] and Pau Gasol [acquired in trade with Memphis for Marc Gasol.. also drafted by the Lakers]. More recently, drafted multiple top picks which gave them the trade capital to entice LBJ. Those drafted players were then traded for Day-to-Davis.

Miami: Drafted Caron Butler, Drafted Dwanye Wade. Butler was a key piece in the trade for Shaq which put them over the top and won them a Championship. Wade would stick around to win a few more with some FA buddies. They're currently contending with a slew of homegrown players [Bam, Herro, etc.]

Brooklyn's current path was a little more convoluted, but ultimately began by drafting good players many of which were used to entice FA's, used as trade pieces, while others still remain on the team as top role players.

We can go on.. the point remains. Every successful franchise relies on drafting good players. It's the easiest and cheapest means of acquiring both high-end talent and top role players.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I have New York as a top five team in the east before the season started especially with the addition of Fournier. I thought Walker would be more of an impact player but that clearly wasn't the case.

Regardless I think they should have done better with the talent they have.

[3toheadmelo]

Going after Fournier instead of Derozan was just awful. Kemba is a disgrace also.

[Reign23]

I disagree with the majority regarding the expected performance.
before last season, basically the entire basketball world thought that the knicks were a bottom three team.
then they "lucked" through a strange season, where they stayed healthy and played opponents without their best players on a daily basis.
now they have basically the same team and things have evened out.

[DaGawd]

Clean house and cap space. Keep Mitch, RJ and IQ. Tank, add an elite 23 talent and from then on you have a real future.

Unfortunately this won’t happen.. or isn’t very likely to. The draft really doesn’t matter to this franchise.. even tho it should. Like someone else said the Knicks need to start operating with the same mindset of a small market team until the foundation of a consistent winner with high upside is built. This may never happen as long as Dolan is owner tho.. which doesn’t make sense considering they sell out even when they’re awful

The draft should matter to every single franchise. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Take a look at some other big markets, for example:

LA: Drafted Kobe Bryant and role players Derek Fisher and Devean George before acquiring Shaq which put them over the top. Kobe won again with Andrew Bynum [drafted by Lakers] and Pau Gasol [acquired in trade with Memphis for Marc Gasol.. also drafted by the Lakers]. More recently, drafted multiple top picks which gave them the trade capital to entice LBJ. Those drafted players were then traded for Day-to-Davis.

Miami: Drafted Caron Butler, Drafted Dwanye Wade. Butler was a key piece in the trade for Shaq which put them over the top and won them a Championship. Wade would stick around to win a few more with some FA buddies. They're currently contending with a slew of homegrown players [Bam, Herro, etc.]

Brooklyn's current path was a little more convoluted, but ultimately began by drafting good players many of which were used to entice FA's, used as trade pieces, while others still remain on the team as top role players.

We can go on.. the point remains. Every successful franchise relies on drafting good players. It's the easiest and cheapest means of acquiring both high-end talent and top role players.

Trust me most of us fans know that. It’s every FO under Dolan’s rule who seems to not know

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I disagree with the majority regarding the expected performance.
before last season, basically the entire basketball world thought that the knicks were a bottom three team.
then they "lucked" through a strange season, where they stayed healthy and played opponents without their best players on a daily basis.
now they have basically the same team and things have evened out.

I mean the "randle difference" has been pretty massive.

[links135]

I disagree with the majority regarding the expected performance.
before last season, basically the entire basketball world thought that the knicks were a bottom three team.
then they "lucked" through a strange season, where they stayed healthy and played opponents without their best players on a daily basis.
now they have basically the same team and things have evened out.

Yeah it's pretty clear they were leapfrogged by standing still.

Chicago, Cleveland and the Raptors have all become much much better compared to last year, combined with the fact NY also plays in a division where the 4th best team by record is the freaking Nets.

Same with Atlanta in terms of being leapfrogged while standing still.

They both had a 24-18, 25-17 conference record last year. This year it's 24-24 and 19-29. In fact their West records this year are still pretty good, NY only had one more win last year and Atlanta's is the exact same.

[ElectricMayhem]

With teams like New York, Washington, and Sacramento, it's hard to say what should be done at the front office and coaching levels because the true rot is at the ownership level. It's hard to see anything changes until they get a more committed ownership group in. Trust me, as a Lions fan, I know (though extremely happy with Sheila Ford Hamp now, thanks for asking).

Last offseason, New York tried to build on its success and take the next step. They swung and missed with Fournier and Walker. Good on them for trying, but I was doubtful these players would be what they needed. When the everyfan can see that but you GM can't, that's bad news. But maybe, due to the Knicks being the Knicks, they couldn't attract anyone better. I'd think they could with their recent momentum, but who knows? I think I'd give 'em one more year.

Thibs...What to do about Thibs? Last year was amazing what he did with that group. He couldn't coax another year out of them, though. The worrying thing is that people expect this from Thibs teams. They expect him to grind players down both physically and mentally. Can he bring a team BACK after doing that? A lot of people have been commenting on the improved East. That's true, but last year the Knicks had HCA. They were consistently good all season long. The difference in the East's talent isn't big enough to make up for the difference in play. I'm not sure what good another year of Thibs would do, but due to his brilliant job the previous year, I 100% understand if they do keep him around.

I have no idea what to do with their roster. Barrett is very promising, but I don't see much else I like. Randle was a one-year wonder. If he's been trying to play himself into a trade a la Harden, it won't work. People knew who Harden was. Randle has tanked his trade value because nobody knows what they'd be getting with him.

Dolan is going to keep the team because it's the only thing that gives him relevance even though the town would love him more if he sold the Knicks. So I don't see sunnier days coming for a while.

[djsunyc]

there's a very long way to go from having some ok to decent young players and actually winning a bunch of games. knicks are still a legit project team that needs serious talent infusion.

i'm not a big rj barrett guy. i think he has some skill but i don't see him really contributing to a big winning team. he reminds me alot of corey maggette in terms of impact.

[kobe tier]

If the world is fair Trae would be 2nd team over Curry.

Number of games played matters.

[dockingsched]

Regardless I think they should have done better with the talent they have.

They’re one of the least talented teams in the league and definitely aren’t more talented than anyone above them. If anything, I think they overachieved and should’ve been a bottom 5 team in the league based on talent.

[Ice Trae]

keep for now
keep for now
worse than expected
treadmill

it's time to let it go. Trade all the vets. Resign Mitch. See what you have in the kids and tank the season. Build through the draft until you get that franchise changing talent.

[Phish Tank]

The clear lesson learned is that the Knicks may need to consider mental evaluations of prime talent before committing to them long-term.

Hardest thing is the realization that you can't really change players after a certain point. As they say, you are who you are. It's a struggle, but what can you do?

In the mean time, it's time to find some prime talent. Unfortunately, that may come at the sacrifice of RJ Barrett....

[Johnny Bball]

The Knicks have one of the ugliest cap sheets in the league. There is no choice but to blow it up. And I mean everyone.

[cgf]

Quite a few posts above say the Knicks overachieved last season. Maybe they did, but they also decided to destroy the best aspects of the team in the off-season instead of building on what was working.

Last season the Knicks played a tough, gritty, defensive style of basketball which fit exactly how their coach wants to play. Everyone seemed to be fitting into their role. Then, their two biggest off-season acquisitions were Walker and Fournier, which couldn't have fit much worse with what they were building. Add in whatever happened to Randle (some regression was to be expected, but he has gone way beyond that), and you have what you see now.

Going forward, there are a whole bunch of different ways things can go. One thing for sure is they definitely need to do something about the PG spot if they want to field a competitive team. If they were truly expecting Derrick Rose to be the answer they were crazy. He is 33 and his highest total of games played in the past five seasons is 51.

As a knicks fan, I could not agree with this post more.

[cgf]

Came across this on twitter today this can't be true can it? lmao

Read on Twitter

Yeah, seems like minutes per game are similar, and burks played one more game, jokic was injured or sat out one. Burks had a lot of 30-35 minute games, Thibs apparently likes him, and he rides his guys.

He's also been forced to pick up a lot of the PG minutes that Rose & Kemba haven't been able to fill. Quickley has gotten more PT down the stretch, but he can only play so much...and he was struggling to start the season, so he needed to work his way back up to the bigger burden he's been carrying more lately.

[cgf]

Going after Fournier instead of Derozan was just awful. Kemba is a disgrace also.

How differently this season could've gone had we used one of our FRPs last year to bring GTJ in and signed Lonzo...

Lonzo | Rose | Quickley | McBride
Trent Jr. | Quickley | Bullock or Burks
Barrett | Bullock or Burks | Grimes or Reddish
Randle | Toppin
Robinson | Noel | Gibson | Sims

Could've improved our shot-making/-creation to compensate for some of the expected regression, without sacrificing our defensive identity. We would've still probably taken a step back, but if RJ still made the progress we've seen from him since the new year, that team could be coming on strong right now.

[wco81]

2. Give RJ a max extension

Really a max extension? As in over $30 million a year to start and increasing throughout the contract?

He raised his average this year on more shots but his efficiency dropped.


Shooting better than projected coming into the league but does he project to be a 25 PPG scorer on good efficiency?

Tradable contract would be more in the $22-25 million a year range.

[cgf]

2. Give RJ a max extension

Really a max extension? As in over $30 million a year to start and increasing throughout the contract?

He raised his average this year on more shots but his efficiency dropped.


Shooting better than projected coming into the league but does he project to be a 25 PPG scorer on good efficiency?

Tradable contract would be more in the $22-25 million a year range.

Efficiency is going to be the next step, but the self-creation he's displayed in 2022 is something I did not expect to see from him until he had had another summer to polish his handle. He just looks like a completely different player offensively. No longer the stiff robot that he used to turn into any time he had to dribble the ball, RJ is now smooth out there, and it's why he's had so much success getting to the rim.

Whether the efficiency ever comes or not, only time can tell, but I'm optimistic that it will...which is rare when it comes to anything to do with this franchise ...ontop of getting to the rim well, he gets to the line well, and he's already a good 3pt shooter; so if his FT shooting & finishing at the rim improve to just solid, his efficiency stats should really shoot up.

[Cubbies2120]

So much has changed since the start of the season!

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