Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Cleveland Cavaliers

[anotherhomer]

lebron would literally fit in great with Cavs
PG: Garland,
SG: Okoro
PF: Mobley
C: allen

Off the bench: Rubio, Sexton, Lauri

They can trade Lavert, Love plus bunch of picks for one year of Lebron

[tdot_steel]

Very bright future ahead and a fun team to watch.

With more experience the Cavs will be a problem.

[Marmoset]

Okoro, Mobley, Garland and Allen will come into next year better than this year. They are a team on the rise although I do have some concerns with their roster makeup.

I agree that their roster has some questions but I think they will have opportunities to address that in the next couple of years through trades, FA, etc. It will be interesting to see what happens with Colin Sexton as he's a total wild card and could have an impact whether he remains on the team or gets moved (assuming he is decently healthy). As others have mentioned, they also have the Love contract finally coming to an end imminently.

I think the Cavs are in a great position moving forward, probably one of the best situations of all the young teams in the league in terms of the combined potential of their talent and financial situation.

[cavs4872]

As a Pacers fan this is very disheartening...Really wanted that pick for Caris considering Rubio will never play in Indiana (or should he really)

I wanna say it's kinda fair considering LeVert kinda underperformed for us.

LeVert was such a bad trade, only black mark on otherwise surprisingly good year

I feel like he kinda looked at home for once in the Garland-Markkanen-Mobley-Allen lineup. Otherwise, yeah, it hasn't been an ideal fit and I kinda had a gut feeling like that when the trade was made. Our team was built on some weird as **** combination of players somehow becoming a success story, and then when you add someone who's supposed to be an obvious upgrade it doesn't work out.

Ideally though I feel like he should've just been a bench player allowed to do whatever he wants, so he almost didn't get a fair shake imo. Was expecting Okoro to start last night.

I really wanted them to make it

They deserved and earned it... play-in is gross; no way around it.

[Mind_Odyssey]

We need another scoring wing bad. People keep trying to make Lauri a bench big and they’re ignoring why we lost last night.

Our backcourt is awful. Garland had a really bad game last night. Okoro and Levert did nothing positive.

[JujitsuFlip]

We need another scoring wing bad. People keep trying to make Lauri a bench big and they’re ignoring why we lost last night.

Our backcourt is awful. Garland had a really bad game last night. Okoro and Levert did nothing positive.

Need an offensive system, ball moves early then sticks late. PnR and wing ISO is very rudimentary.

When the All-Star lead guard goes 9-27 FG (1-7 from deep), only 2 FTA, and 5 TOs... The Cavs are lucky they only lost by 6 points.

Garland is set at the 1, Mobley and Allen are locked in at 4 and 5. If Love can't be moved (I'm not advocating for it but his money can be used elsewhere) then Markkanen probably slots in as 3, or heck maybe even move Markkanen but a less attractive asset to be sure.

I'm fine bringing Sexton back on the QO or even S&T him to another team. If he comes back and accepts a bench role, him and Okoro are a fine off the bench pair.

Get Moses Brown and Goodwin back cheap.

1: Garland/Sexton (on the QO)/Goodwin
2: #14/Okoro/Windler
3: idk trade for someone/Cedi or Stevens
4: Mobley/Love or Markkanen/Wade
5: Allen/Brown/vet min big

[TheLand13]

In the end.
Sky is blue
grass is green
Poop floats
and truth shines.

ricky rubio WAS THE MVP of the team THE REAL REASON of the good beggining the ONE THAT DESERVED To be in the Asg.

but every thread on those topics disregarded him and looked for other answers..
well
poop time.

rubio went down.

team fell of a cliff

o yeah another one, rondo was going to be a better fit replacement




too bad that he will probably will come back completely done so he probably wont be able to go and elevate the game of YET ANOTHER TEAM while being underapreciated or ignored and later be stabbed in the back by the team.

Everything you just said is laughably wrong.

Rubio deserves credit for his excellent play but by no means was he the MVP of this team. He was, at the most, their third most important player. And that’s only if you can come up with a reasonable argument regarding why he was more important than Mobley.

Anyone who actually paid attention to the team, understood why they were so good in the first place would never say Rubio was the MVP of that team. Their bread and butter came down to that massive lineup they had and the dynamic duo of Garland/Rubio. The team was a defensive juggernaut with a pretty ridiculous bench team, making them a nightmare to play against.

Even after they lost Rubio, they were still one of the top defensive teams in the league and had nights where they could light you up on offense. They beat multiple top teams, including a blow out win over a healthy Bucks team. Once they lost Allen, they completely lost their defensive identity and were in the bottom 20 in that regard, and lost regularly to lower tier teams.

In other words, Garland and Allen were their most important players. There is no way you can argue otherwise. To give all the credit to Rubio is such a baseless and idiotic claim to make. You either don’t understand the sport of basketball, or are going off of comments people are making about how good Rubio was and are just assuming he was their most important player. Either way you are wrong.

[ocelot17]

They should have tanked this season. They’re a year or two ahead of the rebuild. It’s going to end up costing them in the long run.

They ended their season right in the middle. Not good enough to compete for championships, not bad enough to draft a star.

[Mind_Odyssey]

They should have tanked this season. They’re a year or two ahead of the rebuild. It’s going to end up costing them in the long run.

They ended their season right in the middle. Not good enough to compete for championships, not bad enough to draft a star.

How can you argue that…? You’re assuming a LOT.

[giberish]

We need another scoring wing bad. People keep trying to make Lauri a bench big and they’re ignoring why we lost last night.

Our backcourt is awful. Garland had a really bad game last night. Okoro and Levert did nothing positive.

Need an offensive system, ball moves early then sticks late. PnR and wing ISO is very rudimentary.

If you don't have enough PG skills on the floor, all you can do is the most rudimentary offense. This is why Cleveland needs at least one wing who has credible secondary PG skills, as well as a solid backup PG for when Garland sits.

[TheLand13]

They should have tanked this season. They’re a year or two ahead of the rebuild. It’s going to end up costing them in the long run.

They ended their season right in the middle. Not good enough to compete for championships, not bad enough to draft a star.

Some of these takes are hilariously bad.

[vege]

Should be pretty uncontroversial

Overacheived

I agree with everything else you posted, but I disagree here.

At the end of the day, they were a lotto team, as expected. Because of injuries, sure, but they didn't make the playoffs.

The future should be super bright. Garland/Mobley/Allen is an insane core, you guys should be super excited.

[JujitsuFlip]

We need another scoring wing bad. People keep trying to make Lauri a bench big and they’re ignoring why we lost last night.

Our backcourt is awful. Garland had a really bad game last night. Okoro and Levert did nothing positive.

Need an offensive system, ball moves early then sticks late. PnR and wing ISO is very rudimentary.

If you don't have enough PG skills on the floor, all you can do is the most rudimentary offense. This is why Cleveland needs at least one wing who has credible secondary PG skills, as well as a solid backup PG for when Garland sits.

I mean, LeVert was supposed to be that and was just a low efficiency chucker, like most people anticipated.

Getting #14 back makes it not as bad in the near term, especially if they can flip him for any useful asset.

[JujitsuFlip]

Should be pretty uncontroversial

Overacheived

I agree with everything else you posted, but I disagree here.

At the end of the day, they were a lotto team, as expected. Because of injuries, sure, but they didn't make the playoffs.

The future should be super bright. Garland/Mobley/Allen is an insane core, you guys should be super excited.

Not all lotto teams are created equal.

Cavs won 44 games this season... They won 41 games combined the two years prior.

[Hugi Mancura]

In the end.
Sky is blue
grass is green
Poop floats
and truth shines.

ricky rubio WAS THE MVP of the team THE REAL REASON of the good beggining the ONE THAT DESERVED To be in the Asg.

but every thread on those topics disregarded him and looked for other answers..
well
poop time.

rubio went down.

team fell of a cliff

o yeah another one, rondo was going to be a better fit replacement




too bad that he will probably will come back completely done so he probably wont be able to go and elevate the game of YET ANOTHER TEAM while being underapreciated or ignored and later be stabbed in the back by the team.

Everything you just said is laughably wrong.

Rubio deserves credit for his excellent play but by no means was he the MVP of this team. He was, at the most, their third most important player. And that’s only if you can come up with a reasonable argument regarding why he was more important than Mobley.

Anyone who actually paid attention to the team, understood why they were so good in the first place would never say Rubio was the MVP of that team. Their bread and butter came down to that massive lineup they had and the dynamic duo of Garland/Rubio. The team was a defensive juggernaut with a pretty ridiculous bench team, making them a nightmare to play against.

Even after they lost Rubio, they were still one of the top defensive teams in the league and had nights where they could light you up on offense. They beat multiple top teams, including a blow out win over a healthy Bucks team. Once they lost Allen, they completely lost their defensive identity and were in the bottom 20 in that regard, and lost regularly to lower tier teams.

In other words, Garland and Allen were their most important players. There is no way you can argue otherwise. To give all the credit to Rubio is such a baseless and idiotic claim to make. You either don’t understand the sport of basketball, or are going off of comments people are making about how good Rubio was and are just assuming he was their most important player. Either way you are wrong.

They also lost to Detroit twice and to Houston and Allen was playing in all of those games, so the drop down was obvious after they lost Rubio. They did beat Denver without Allen or Rubio, so even after they lost Allen they still got a win from .500 team. Both Allen and Rubio were impactful players for the team. Losing one harmed the team a lot, losing another killed the team.

I do agree that Allen is the most important player on defense, but Mobley can cover a lot the things Allen did. Not all, so I'm not claiming Mobley is right now a better defender. But on offense Allen relies on other players to give him easy baskets, so losing him didn't really harm team offense. Rubio brought something else other than his skill. He brought his high basketball IQ. He was a second coach, who covered for Bikerstaff weaknesses. He made players around him better, including Allen. When they lost him everyone got lousier. Example: based on netrating stats Allen was teams second best starter before Rubio went down, but after they lost Rubio Allen became the worst starter. Team lost a player who can give those easy passes to Allen and because Allen is such a moody player his motivation took a dip when he didn't get those alley-oop's anymore.

When player goes down it is not just about skill the player bought in. It is about who can cover the skill teams lost. Losing Allen didn't cost that much because Mobley brings a lot of those skills Allen had. There was no-one in Cavs who could bring the skills Rubio brought, so losing him harmed team more.

And if we go to statistics. Cavs netrating dropped from 6 to 0 when they lost Rubio and from 0 to -2 when they lost Allen. So based on netrating losing Rubio was a bigger impact.

So claiming that Rubio had a bigger impact to teams success than Allen is not a idiotic claim. Claiming that Rubio was the most impactful player is little bit idiotic, because Garland had the biggest impact on teams success.

[Roger Murdock]

Should be pretty uncontroversial

Overacheived

I agree with everything else you posted, but I disagree here.

At the end of the day, they were a lotto team, as expected. Because of injuries, sure, but they didn't make the playoffs.

The future should be super bright. Garland/Mobley/Allen is an insane core, you guys should be super excited.

The only teams with worse odds than use pre-season were Pistons, OKC, and Magic. We doubled their win totals and had the biggest gap between projected and actual wins in the league. Despite being one of the most injured teams in the NBA we got the 8-seed.

'Just a lotto team' if you ignore all context.

If you told me pre-season this is what our injuries would be like I'd have expected a 15-25 win team.

[TheLand13]

They also lost to Detroit twice and to Houston and Allen was playing in all of those games, so the drop down was obvious after they lost Rubio.

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post.

In two of those games, Darius Garland wasn't playing. And in one of them, Lauri didn't play, and that was against the Detroit Pistons, one of the few teams that matchup really well with Cleveland regardless of what kind of lineup they deploy.

Please, do your research next time and then I'll consider reading your post.

[jeeph]

The Cavs zigged when everyone else has zagged. People keep saying a wing is the key, that's just not what the eyes or stats say though.

The best Cavs lineup was Garland and Rubio. It was one of the tops in the NBA for pairings. So while everybody is looking for that 3&D wing that can also create, the Cavs best offense was from point guards dribble driving. To start the year they had Garland, Rubio, and Sexton as their plus dribblers. They ended the year with Rondo as the second best creator. For times this year, Cedi was their second best creator.

So they need to try for 2 or 3 plus dribblers. My preference would be to sign Rubio on the MLE and retain Sexton. While they look for a diamond in the rough as the #4 PG. Plus dribblers that can attack the rim every time down the court with mobile bigs rolling to the basket and 3 point shooters waiting for open looks, that is the Cavs offense. And it's even better as I stated above, when they have 2 PG's on the floor.

The other main aspect of the team is not switchy, twitchy wings, but mobile tall bigs that have the capability to press the 3 point line. They have Allen, Mobley, Markkenen, and Wade. The main problem though, is only Allen is capable of playing the 5. Love and Davis are not mobile and only 6'9", not tall ball. Brown is a possible, but he has a long way to go. An at least a semi-mobile tall big that can play the 5 and anchor a defense with rim protection is a need, back-up quality is fine.

So that's 2-3 PG's and a C for the needs to play this system next year accounting for average amounts of injuries.

The problem with LeVert and Okoro is they are not good dribble creators in crowded spaces. Which you have in a tall ball lineup. They are fine for their roles, but playing Cedi or Stevens in their spot doesn't take much away from the team/system. Guards or wings that aren't plus dribblers don't affect the team nearly as much as those that are. That's another consideration for acquiring a wing, can he create at a plus level consistently?

For the wings, Cedi, Stevens, and Windler are perfectly fine, better than most I'd say, back-up wings. If they get a wing to be starter, he not only has to better than Markkenen, but also good enough for them to scrap their tall ball system. And I think their preferred SF in this system would be what other team's consider a PF, like Siakam next to Mobley and Allen would be stupid. Whereas Harrison Barnes instead of Markkenen would help in a lot of ways, but hurt in others. So a 3&D wing that can create falls into the want category, along with the other 29 teams.

But having said that, Love, LeVert, Cedi, Okoro, and picks are available for that unicorn get, and the Cavs have to looking tasty to players fitting between Garland, Mobley, and Allen. <That's setting yourself up for success.

So keep building smart by sticking to the system of going for PG's, which with the NBA talent level means they are devalued if they aren't a star, and bigs because everyone is bidding on wings. Get that 2 PG's and a Center, but be willing to shoot for the moon if a trade for a guy fitting the timeline pops up.

JB is good for at least one more year, this team is still getting better and he is a player development coach. A young team getting better should always supersede non-title playoff success in emphasis.

[Hugi Mancura]

They also lost to Detroit twice and to Houston and Allen was playing in all of those games, so the drop down was obvious after they lost Rubio.

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post.

In two of those games, Darius Garland wasn't playing. And in one of them, Lauri didn't play, and that was against the Detroit Pistons, one of the few teams that matchup really well with Cleveland regardless of what kind of lineup they deploy.

Please, do your research next time and then I'll consider reading your post.

I do think you read mine post, but because you didn't have counter you decided to only attack one line. Weak I would say.

I could go on talking about how team with 1 all star should win tanking teams even if they don't have all their starters and how Detroit was missing Grant in one of those games, but I think that would be pointless.

I don't actually care if someone thinks Allen's impact is super huge or bigger than Rubio's. People have right to their own opinions, but difference between people are that some people think their opinions are so great that everyone who disagrees with them are stupid even if they can't support their claims.

[GSWFan1994]

I was very surprised by the way the Cavs competed this season.

I thought they were going to win 32/35 is everything went according to plan.

Mobley, still, is such an underrated player. The closest thing we may have to Tim Duncan nowadays. Enables the best version of other players, complements everyone quite well, does his work quietly and never underperforms.

As much as I like Cade and Barnes, I still believe Mobley has the best chances to, one day, eventually, go to the HOF. Though I believe all 3 will. This year's class is this good and about to be legendary.

Garland has made quite a leap this season as well. I was never high on him, just thought he would someday be a Mike Conley type, that kind of player who is top 12/15 at his position. Garland has already overcame those odds.

That being said, Cleveland urgently needs not only a starting-caliber wing, but a wing rotation as well. Okoro has been a massive disappointment to me. Osman is barely rotation player level. Stevens is end of the bench caliber.

Cavs are on the right path. Who would have thought? Kudos to them. And cheers to the fans as well.