Winning Needs to Matter in MVP Conversation Again

Crives · Post #41 » by **Crives** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:18 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
Crives wrote:Winning matters.

No it doesn't.
Because winning is the easiest thing in the world for Jokic, all he has to do is tell his agent to find him a good team, and then stop playing and pout until he gets a trade.

That is theoretical. You could make that same argument for many great players on bad/mediocre teams. It’s ok to be a great player on a bad/mediocre team, but that doesn’t mean you deserve the most prestigious regular season award.

None of the candidates are in LA or NY. This isn’t a big market thing, it’s about rewarding performances that lead to actual accomplishments(wins), over pure stats

Wolfgang630 · Post #42 » by **Wolfgang630** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:19 am

GSP wrote:Jokic deserves Mvp its a regular season award. This Nuggets team without Murray/Mpj doesnt win 20 games without him this season.

With that said hes most likely never sniffing an Mvp again barring something insane like a 70 win season

And I’m sure he couldn’t care less about another mvp. He wants to win a championship and I’m sure it eats him inside his guys are injured 2 playoffs in a row and they can’t do anything.

Crives · Post #43 » by **Crives** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:21 am

If anything, all I am asking is for voters to place stronger emphasis on individual performances that lead to wins. Make wins matter again please.

Wolfgang630 · Post #44 » by **Wolfgang630** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:24 am

Crives wrote:If anything, all I am asking is for voters to place stronger emphasis on individual performances that lead to wins. Make wins matter again please.

So who should’ve won this year? Because it ain’t anyone on Phoenix. CP3 showed how valuable he was again yesterday

Pachinko_ · Post #45 » by **Pachinko_** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:24 am

Crives wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:
Crives wrote:Winning matters.

No it doesn't.
Because winning is the easiest thing in the world for Jokic, all he has to do is tell his agent to find him a good team, and then stop playing and pout until he gets a trade.

That is theoretical.

Ιt's actually not. It has happened and will happen again, and if you think those player don't consider it, don't.
It's very real and you and others like you are pushing them in that direction.

harlem_ball · Post #46 » by **harlem_ball** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:24 am

Crives wrote:It should be humiliating to Jokic MVP voters that the soon to be back to back league MVP is about to get embarrassingly swept two years in a row.

Winning matters. 48 win season should be automatic disqualification from the discussion.

That's what it has been consistently. Goes to the top seed but the Suns...do they have a main cog? Booker, maybe?

Crives · Post #47 » by **Crives** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:27 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
Crives wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:No it doesn't.
Because winning is the easiest thing in the world for Jokic, all he has to do is tell his agent to find him a good team, and then stop playing and pout until he gets a trade.

That is theoretical.

Ιt's actually not. At all. It has happened and will happen again, and if you think those player don't consider it, don't. It's very real.

Your missing my point. I’m not saying it’s theoretical that players push their way to different teams, especially bigger markets. I am saying using that as a reason to justify MVP going to a mediocre team, is awarding a theoretical MVP for success that was never actually accomplished in the regular season

Johnny Firpo · Post #48 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:34 am

cpower wrote:Joker is the best player when games dont matter.

Such horsecrap. Jokic is a 26/11/6 on 62%TS playoff performer in 44 games. That's one of the best ever, and literally five of the best six players in this series are playing on the Warriors.

AussieBuck · Post #49 » by **AussieBuck** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:34 am

Nobody would beat this Warriors team with his cast. No MVPs in the league.

AussieBuck · Post #50 » by **AussieBuck** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:36 am

Johnny Firpo wrote:
cpower wrote:Joker is the best player when games dont matter.

Such horsecrap. Jokic is a 26/11/6 on 62%TS playoff performer in 44 games. That's one of the best ever, and literally five of the best six players in this series are playing on the Warriors.

Warriors 5th best player was an all star starter!

Crives · Post #51 » by **Crives** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:36 am

harlem_ball wrote:
Crives wrote:It should be humiliating to Jokic MVP voters that the soon to be back to back league MVP is about to get embarrassingly swept two years in a row.

Winning matters. 48 win season should be automatic disqualification from the discussion.

That's what it has been consistently. Goes to the top seed but the Suns...do they have a main cog? Booker, maybe?

I dont want to derail the thread by bringing up who I think real candidates should have been.

My request is for those who are solely focused on the numbers/ individual performances, and not properly valuing how those performances lead to wins, to reconsider what we should be rewarding with mvp.

I really hate what MVP award is becoming. When we don’t care about end result (wins), We are heading down path where MVP is going to be awarded each year to the most heliocentric stat machines on a mediocre team

DoctorX · Post #52 » by **DoctorX** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:38 am

Should Jimmy Butler and Booker be the favorites for the MVP? This is silly. It's not always black and white when it comes to who gets the MVP. Jokic is playing with a bunch of G-league talent.

Crives · Post #53 » by **Crives** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:38 am

AussieBuck wrote:Nobody would beat this Warriors team with his cast. No MVPs in the league.

Easy solution. No MVP if the team is mediocre, even if that is due to bad role players. Reward winning.

Pachinko_ · Post #54 » by **Pachinko_** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:40 am

Crives wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:
Crives wrote:
That is theoretical.

Ιt's actually not. At all. It has happened and will happen again, and if you think those player don't consider it, don't. It's very real.

Your missing my point. I’m not saying it’s theoretical that players push their way to different teams, especially bigger markets. I am saying using that as a reason to justify MVP going to a mediocre team, is awarding a theoretical MVP for success that was never actually accomplished in the regular season

Good!

Please tell me, what important decision about a player would you make based on team success?
Would you not draft a great player from a bad college?
Would you not trade for Anthony Davis because the Pelicans couldn't win?
Would you not look at Giannis because his Greek team was crap?

Of course not. Intelligent people differentiate personal performance from team performance every day, for much more important things than a stupid award that has basically no definition and criteria anyway, and you and I are sitting here right now like idiots trying to reverse engineer Ramona Shelburne's brain and figure out what she was thinking when she casted her MVP vote, so then we can yell at the clouds what she should be thinking.

This is all totally (Please Use More Appropriate Word) mate, forget I responded to you.

AussieBuck · Post #55 » by **AussieBuck** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:40 am

Crives wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Nobody would beat this Warriors team with his cast. No MVPs in the league.

Easy solution. No MVP if the team is mediocre, even if that is due to bad role players. Reward winning.

Nah I'm good with whoever was most valuable.

Woodsanity · Post #56 » by **Woodsanity** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:41 am

Well for the Suns why would I vote for Booker when CP3 is the more valuable player?

Luka can miss games and still beat the Jazz. Embiid can score 19 points only and win by 20 while being carried by Maxey. Not my mvps either.

Antinomy · Post #57 » by **Antinomy** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:44 am

Tempe wrote:Why is getting 6 seed in the worst western conference in a decade considered some great feat anyway? All the Nuggets did was beat up on bad teams. They had the worst record (20-26) against teams over 0.500 of any top 6 seed in either conference.

Didn’t the media learn their lesson with Westbrook MVP?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had been saying this for months.

They beat out a ton of tanking, injured or flat-out bad teams to get the 6th spot in an underwhelming conference.

Pelicans are literally 10 games under .500 & made it in.

It’s preposterous that after years of complaining about Westbrook’s MVP, they’re gonna hand Jokic one for basically doing the same thing.

Peregrine01 · Post #58 » by **Peregrine01** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:45 am

Lol. If you think any player in the NBA if he took Jokic's place on this Nuggets roster isn't getting shellacked by this version of the Warriors, then you're gravely mistaken. I doubt that any other player even gets this Nuggets squad a top 6 seed.

gottamakeit · Post #59 » by **gottamakeit** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:45 am

Crives wrote:I dont want to derail the thread by bringing up who I think real candidates should have been.

Pure cowardice...

Crives · Post #60 » by **Crives** » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:45 am

DoctorX wrote:Should Jimmy Butler and Booker be the favorites for the MVP? This is silly. It's not always black and white when it comes to who gets the MVP. Jokic is playing with a bunch of G-league talent.

That’s the point. If you have a very mediocre team full of g- league talent, why should you get rewarded with the most prestigious regular season honor? MVP is not best player, it’s most valuable. If your not demonstrating your value with wins, how do we really know what happens when the supporting cast changes? We should not reward theoretical success, reward actual success (wins)