CP3 Goes 14/14 FG in a closeout game

[bbalnation]

I thought you meant

14 points
14 assists

Loooool

[Dupp]

Great close out game.

80% of his playoff failures have come from him or his teammates ability to stay healthy. Health has always been his biggest hurdle and defeating factor.

[bwgood77]

Absolutely masterful from CP3 in a closeout game

He's been great in closeout games as of late (though didn't get his opportunity with the Rockets when they were up on the Warriors).

Look at his close out game against the Clips last year, particularly pts, 3s and FG% https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401337338

and his close out game vs Denver (pts and FG% again). https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401332966

[Modulate]

Great game but still a career choker. A couple games during the 1st round against a playin 10th seed doesn’t excuse a career of falling short (except when he was a pelican)
So overrated When they put him as a top 3 pg all time lol. First ballot hall of fame though. Maybe 8-10th greatest of all time pg. Which is legendary.

But I can’t believe everyone’s calling him a clutch player

Must...hate. Always...hate...

[GeorgeSears]

Without him, they're still a solid team, but with him, they're a contender. He's their most valuable player.

[MrBigShot]

Booker is still injured, but in these playoffs there should be zero doubt that CP3 is far and away the best player on the Suns. He is their MVP.

Also, CP3 is NOT a career choker. He hasn't won a championship yet, but historically he is an excellent playoff performer.

He always makes teams play above their talent level. Eventually they have usually met far superior talent and they lose, and even though he has set records on every team he's been on for their best record ever, always made the playoffs, raises the level of everyone on the team, because he ultimately can't lead his team to win when they finally come up against far superior talent, he is called a choker. He or his teammates have also often had key injuries which really hurt the team and their chances.

It's a product of binary/simplistic thinking among NBA fans and media. Giannis and Dirk got the same choker criticisms despite both being great playoff performers. Yeah, Dirk did have a poor series in 06-07 but he was just in the finals prior to that. T-Mac did as well, even though he was a really good playoff performer at his peak.

To me, if CP3 never wins a championship he is still the 2nd best point guard of all time. He elevates his own game come playoff time and literally always, always creates a winning culture wherever he goes. Even on a tanking team like the Thunder.

BUT, the way he's playing right now in conjunction with Booker's return (he'll have time to get back to form), I'd say CP3 has a very good shot at winning one during his suns tenure.

[art_tatum]

Great game but still a career choker. A couple games during the 1st round against a playin 10th seed doesn’t excuse a career of falling short (except when he was a pelican)
So overrated When they put him as a top 3 pg all time lol. First ballot hall of fame though. Maybe 8-10th greatest of all time pg. Which is legendary.

But I can’t believe everyone’s calling him a clutch player

Name 10 PGs better than Paul.

I said 8-10 so here are 7 clearly better (won mvps, lead their team to chips as the main or 2nd guy /fmvp guys) in no order:

Magic
Curry
IT (pistons)
West
Harden
Oscar
Nash
Then it’s guys like Stockton: longevity, crazy stats, 2finals appearances and would’ve won if not for MJ
Payton
Archibald
Kidd (but I think cp3 is better)
AI if you count him as pg.

So arguably cp3 isn’t even top 10.
What has he accomplished over these guys? 1 finals appearance no mvps or perennially lead teams deep in the playoffs. Mostly a 2nd round point guard a vast majority of his career.

Just cause he gets 10 assists and rarely turns it over? I rather have someone that turn it over way more but impact winning at a high level i.e. nash or curry. He’s always had great teams when said teams did well in the regular season like lob city clips or Houston with harden. Most of the time they collapsed in the playoffs tho.

[JoeyLightYears]

CP3 prob should have been mvp in 2008 but that was Kobe’s lifetime achievement award. If there’s one criticism it’s that he’s been injured in a lot of critical moments but that’s prob more bad luck than anything since he hasn’t been particularly injury prone in his career otherwise. He’ll prob get a title this year but it’s irrelevant aside from those who like to count team accolades in an individual sport.

[bwgood77]

Booker is still injured, but in these playoffs there should be zero doubt that CP3 is far and away the best player on the Suns. He is their MVP.

Also, CP3 is NOT a career choker. He hasn't won a championship yet, but historically he is an excellent playoff performer.

He always makes teams play above their talent level. Eventually they have usually met far superior talent and they lose, and even though he has set records on every team he's been on for their best record ever, always made the playoffs, raises the level of everyone on the team, because he ultimately can't lead his team to win when they finally come up against far superior talent, he is called a choker. He or his teammates have also often had key injuries which really hurt the team and their chances.

It's a product of binary/simplistic thinking among NBA fans and media. Giannis and Dirk got the same choker criticisms despite both being great playoff performers. Yeah, Dirk did have a poor series in 06-07 but he was just in the finals prior to that. T-Mac did as well, even though he was a really good playoff performer at his peak.

To me, if CP3 never wins a championship he is still the 2nd best point guard of all time. He elevates his own game come playoff time and literally always, always creates a winning culture wherever he goes. Even on a tanking team like the Thunder.

BUT, the way he's playing right now in conjunction with Booker's return (he'll have time to get back to form), I'd say CP3 has a very good shot at winning one during his suns tenure.

I think the same mentality happens with coaches. A coach may come in and really raise the level of his players, have them playing together so well, meshing, playing possibly above their talent level, and then they either meet superior talent or just extremely tough opponents in the playoffs and come up short.

So many fans naturally think a coaching change is the answer. This happened to some extent with D'Antoni in Phx. He was criticized for his defense (even though it was fairly avg with Marion, Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas) but they blistered people on offense. So they went with a defensive minded coach after winning in the high 50s or 60 games with D'Antoni, and missed the playoffs. Then they went back to D'Antoni's asst, Alvin Gentry, who basically just implemented D'Antoni's offense, and they get back to the WCF and lose to the Lakers in 6, who went on to win the championship against KG, Pierce and the Celtics.

[Marvin Martian]

The fact that he was the best player and yet only took 14 shots in a close game kinds makes his performance underwhelming

[ninjamilk23]

Great game but still a career choker. A couple games during the 1st round against a playin 10th seed doesn’t excuse a career of falling short (except when he was a pelican)
So overrated When they put him as a top 3 pg all time lol. First ballot hall of fame though. Maybe 8-10th greatest of all time pg. Which is legendary.

But I can’t believe everyone’s calling him a clutch player

You must be really good at basketball. Care to share your highlights?

[ryan in Maine]

Great game but still a career choker. A couple games during the 1st round against a playin 10th seed doesn’t excuse a career of falling short (except when he was a pelican)
So overrated When they put him as a top 3 pg all time lol. First ballot hall of fame though. Maybe 8-10th greatest of all time pg. Which is legendary.

But I can’t believe everyone’s calling him a clutch player

[IamBBAnalysis]

Booker is still injured, but in these playoffs there should be zero doubt that CP3 is far and away the best player on the Suns. He is their MVP.

Also, CP3 is NOT a career choker. He hasn't won a championship yet, but historically he is an excellent playoff performer.

zero doubt and FAR and away?

Great game by Paul...he has been great these playoffs.

[sunsbum]

Great game but still a career choker. A couple games during the 1st round against a playin 10th seed doesn’t excuse a career of falling short (except when he was a pelican)
So overrated When they put him as a top 3 pg all time lol. First ballot hall of fame though. Maybe 8-10th greatest of all time pg. Which is legendary.

But I can’t believe everyone’s calling him a clutch player

Name 10 PGs better than Paul.

I said 8-10 so here are 7 clearly better (won mvps, lead their team to chips as the main or 2nd guy /fmvp guys) in no order:

Magic
Curry
IT (pistons)
West
Harden
Oscar
Nash
Then it’s guys like Stockton: longevity, crazy stats, 2finals appearances and would’ve won if not for MJ
Payton
Archibald
Kidd (but I think cp3 is better)
AI if you count him as pg.

So arguably cp3 isn’t even top 10.
What has he accomplished over these guys? 1 finals appearance no mvps or perennially lead teams deep in the playoffs. Mostly a 2nd round point guard a vast majority of his career.

Just cause he gets 10 assists and rarely turns it over? I rather have someone that turn it over way more but impact winning at a high level i.e. nash or curry. He’s always had great teams when said teams did well in the regular season like lob city clips or Houston with harden. Most of the time they collapsed in the playoffs tho.

yea I’d take Paul over half that list, you just come off sounding like a hater to be honest. I’m not going to comment on the old dudes because I’m not sure how their games translate to today’s NBA while I’m fairly sure the skill floor has risen considerably since the Jerry west/Oscar Robinson and Nate Archibald days.

CP3 vs Payton - easy take here, while GP has the defensive name recognition, Paul has been on 9 all defensive teams himself. CP a better floor general and if I had to start a team between the 2 I take Chris all day.

Nash - Pretty sure 75% of Suns fans would take Paul over Nash. Nash was definitely a better outside shooter and penetrator (at least later in his career) but CP wins this by a landslide with his defense.

Personally again, if I’m building a team around a point guard I’m taking Chris over Harden and Iverson as well. Both of these guys are better scorers but I feel like you’re just throwing them in there to back up your empty take.

Stockton was good but no one in their right mind takes Stockton over Paul right?!

I think Kidd vs IT vs Paul vs is a preference tossup.

Curry and Magic for me are the only ones I take over Paul off your list.

[pj0tr]

Great game but still a career choker. A couple games during the 1st round against a playin 10th seed doesn’t excuse a career of falling short (except when he was a pelican)
So overrated When they put him as a top 3 pg all time lol. First ballot hall of fame though. Maybe 8-10th greatest of all time pg. Which is legendary.

But I can’t believe everyone’s calling him a clutch player

Name 10 PGs better than Paul.

I said 8-10 so here are 7 clearly better (won mvps, lead their team to chips as the main or 2nd guy /fmvp guys) in no order:

Magic
Curry
IT (pistons)
West
Harden
Oscar
Nash
Then it’s guys like Stockton: longevity, crazy stats, 2finals appearances and would’ve won if not for MJ
Payton
Archibald
Kidd (but I think cp3 is better)
AI if you count him as pg.

So arguably cp3 isn’t even top 10.
What has he accomplished over these guys? 1 finals appearance no mvps or perennially lead teams deep in the playoffs. Mostly a 2nd round point guard a vast majority of his career.

Just cause he gets 10 assists and rarely turns it over? I rather have someone that turn it over way more but impact winning at a high level i.e. nash or curry. He’s always had great teams when said teams did well in the regular season like lob city clips or Houston with harden. Most of the time they collapsed in the playoffs tho.

Magic, Curry, and IT are the only players on your list I'd take over CP3.

[Raps in 4]

Big games from two perceived chokers today (CP3 and Harden).

[KyRo23]

Top 15 player all time

I don't know about all that

[LAL1947]

Better late than never.

He could've had a couple of rings if he had done something like this when he was on the Clippers and even on the Rockets.

[Case2012]

He's been the MVP 2 years in a row. Phoenix was garbage since Nash left and he's led them to the best record 2 years straight. How is that not an MVP?

[art_tatum]

Name 10 PGs better than Paul.

I said 8-10 so here are 7 clearly better (won mvps, lead their team to chips as the main or 2nd guy /fmvp guys) in no order:

Magic
Curry
IT (pistons)
West
Harden
Oscar
Nash
Then it’s guys like Stockton: longevity, crazy stats, 2finals appearances and would’ve won if not for MJ
Payton
Archibald
Kidd (but I think cp3 is better)
AI if you count him as pg.

So arguably cp3 isn’t even top 10.
What has he accomplished over these guys? 1 finals appearance no mvps or perennially lead teams deep in the playoffs. Mostly a 2nd round point guard a vast majority of his career.

Just cause he gets 10 assists and rarely turns it over? I rather have someone that turn it over way more but impact winning at a high level i.e. nash or curry. He’s always had great teams when said teams did well in the regular season like lob city clips or Houston with harden. Most of the time they collapsed in the playoffs tho.

Magic, Curry, and IT are the only players on your list I'd take over CP3.

People say this but what concrete rational do they have for it? Over guys like 2 time MVP Steve Nash or Oscar MVP and champ, west fmvp, IT two time fmvp, AI MVP.
Cp3 while i have said is a 1st ballot Hof lacks both individual accolades or team accolades. He has good stats and impact to winning (though apparently not enough) but so does everyone else.

Then when it's LeBron vs Jordan it's all about individual and team accolades.