Bill Simmons' "Trade Value List", 2022 edition

[AussieRules]

If Jayson Tatum is an untouchable, then Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson are “Completely and Utterly Untouchable”

[BK_2020]

If Jayson Tatum is an untouchable, then Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson are “Completely and Utterly Untouchable”

A Bill Simmons-like take.

[Pelon chingon]

Super rough on Fox. Hope this is the year the Kings go on a run.

[Swish1906]

The own thing I absolutely can’t abide is Luka over Jokic. If you look he really hasn’t even improved over the last 2 years and he’s still not a top 5 player in the league. Jokic is a back-to-back MVP playing it a historical level on pace to be a top 10 all-time player. You really think it’s as likely that Luka surpasses that level as that he never reaches it? I’m not buying it.

jokic is a better player than luka (though it is very close). but does luka get points for being younger, perhaps?

Of course Luka gets points for being younger, but the point is, it’s not close. The difference in PER between Jokic and Luka is the same as the difference between Luka and Jalen Brunson, and Jokic effects the game much more in ways that aren’t measured by the box score. Luka has a loooooong way to go to ever be as good as Jokic is right now.

PER died over 10 years ago.

Simmons wrote a loooot about criterias and age/contract etc all play big roles. And yes, on the court Luka isnt really that far off Joker

[ikedog34]

Jalen Green behind Paolo and Chet...

[CraftylikeaFox]

Super rough on Fox. Hope this is the year the Kings go on a run.

Hard to justify him tbh. The numbers don’t lie and Fox is a max contract point guard who isn’t a good shooter, defender, and a below average facilitator.

Fox on a better deal that represents his value skyrockets up this list.

[BlackThought]

Bill Simmons did his best work 10+ years ago. With so many youtuber bball analysts nowadays his views are no longer funny or insightful.

[Schmooftie]

The whole idea of this as he explains is you ask yourself who would hang up the phone call first if it was 2 GM's discussing a direct swap of the players. So yeah while some of the rookies and 2nd year players are ranked high they have high trade value as they are on a good contracts and have high upside. So yeah someone like Mobley while is no where near a top 10 player, go backwards and think who would say no? I bet the Nets would swap Durant for him, Lakers would swap Davis etc

There are some players ranked way too high IMO - for example Holiday, but he does admit in the pod that he is probably ranking Holiday too high.

[Movics]

I don't listen to podcasts so once he went exclusively to podcasting he completely fell of the map for me.

1. Are his podcasts a big deal in the podcasting world?
2. Are they as lazy as this column?

I don't even know why he wrote it.

He has the #3 sports podcast and he sold 51% of his site “The Ringer” to Spotify 3 years ago for $200MM. He’s doing pretty well for himself.

Oh, I’d become a clown as well after that deal. Modern day Tommy Heinsohn

[NZB2323]

The own thing I absolutely can’t abide is Luka over Jokic. If you look he really hasn’t even improved over the last 2 years and he’s still not a top 5 player in the league. Jokic is a back-to-back MVP playing it a historical level on pace to be a top 10 all-time player. You really think it’s as likely that Luka surpasses that level as that he never reaches it? I’m not buying it.

jokic is a better player than luka (though it is very close). but does luka get points for being younger, perhaps?

Of course Luka gets points for being younger, but the point is, it’s not close. The difference in PER between Jokic and Luka is the same as the difference between Luka and Jalen Brunson, and Jokic effects the game much more in ways that aren’t measured by the box score. Luka has a loooooong way to go to ever be as good as Jokic is right now.

Luka is 22 and will make 37 million next year. Jokic is 26 and will make 47 million next year.

Luka also just made the conference finals, and usually players improve greatly from when they’re 22.

[bwgood77]

I didn't know he still did these. I still remember as a Suns fan I think he has Amare #1 one year, I think right after a huge series against the Spurs they lost in 2005....of course he got injured 2 games into the next season, had microfracture surgery and was never really the same as far as how hard he was to stop inside.

[iggymcfrack]

jokic is a better player than luka (though it is very close). but does luka get points for being younger, perhaps?

Of course Luka gets points for being younger, but the point is, it’s not close. The difference in PER between Jokic and Luka is the same as the difference between Luka and Jalen Brunson, and Jokic effects the game much more in ways that aren’t measured by the box score. Luka has a loooooong way to go to ever be as good as Jokic is right now.

PER died over 10 years ago.

Simmons wrote a loooot about criterias and age/contract etc all play big roles. And yes, on the court Luka isnt really that far off Joker

Jokic is much more dominant in the modern advanced stats than he is in PER. PER is just easier to compare across eras to make a historical comparison. Here's how they rank with the most popular stats from NBA GMs:

DPM: Jokic 5.4 (#5), Luka 3.2 (#20)
EPM: Jokic +9.3 (#1), Luka +4.5 (#17)
LEBRON: Jokic +7.8 (#1), Luka +3.0 (#20)
RAPTOR: Jokic +14.6 (#1), Luka +6.4 (#6)
RAPM: Jokic +3.7 (#3), Luka +0.8 (#120)
BPM: Jokic +13.7 (#1), Luka +8.2 (#4)
RPM: Jokic +11.8 (#1), Luka +6.5 (#9)
WPA: Jokic +7.7 (#2), Luka +3.0 (#70)

Luka isn't close to Joker any possible way that you look at it. Joker consistently doubles his impact. If you look at the modern stats, it's basically:

Jokic
(gap)
Giannis
Embiid
(gap)
Tatum
Curry
LeBron
(gap)

then Luka somewhere in the next group. Jokic is a much better defender, a MUCH better rebounder, is much better at getting other players involved, and he scores more points per 36 on 3 less FGA.

[GiannisAnte34]

I noticed that Bridges is a couple tiers higher than OG and several tiers higher than GTJ. Weird how Simmons doesn’t value OG/GTJ higher than Bridges either.

[BallerTalk]

I think Houston would trade Green or Jabari, Chicago would trade Lavine, Toronto would trade Siakam (8 years older), Milwaukee would trade Jrue (12 years older!), Pelicans would trade Ingram, each for LaMelo Ball. I also don't get why Bill values Cade 15 and LaMelo 33 when LaMelo has higher scoring upside at the same size/passing ability. Because of 1 extra year on contract

[TheBounceIsReal]

Yeah Ivey needs to start proving he can play in the playoffs and not just always play in good in the regular season.

Time is ticking though as he's not getting any younger

He actually explained this on his podcast. He said he didn't know where to put Ivey, but that he thinks Ivey is more valuable that the guys behind him, but wouldn't trade any of the guys in front of him straight up for him.

This is important context. OP quoted just the 'article' on the Ringer, but this was actually a Podcast that he does every so often, that the Ringer just put in list form.

For everyone asking questions about why player X is ranked too high/too low and complaining about it, go listen to the podcast.

[jasonxxx102]

If Jayson Tatum is an untouchable, then Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson are “Completely and Utterly Untouchable”

Tatum is so much better than those guys and it’s not even close lmao. Zion can’t even stay on the court

[BallerTalk]

Simmons is approaching Broussard levels of ignorable.

[KG Leonard]

he trends highly on Spotify.

He has the #3 sports podcast and he sold 51% of his site “The Ringer” to Spotify 3 years ago for $200MM. He’s doing pretty well for himself.

God damn!

I knew he had money but nothing like that. What does he talk about on his podcast?

The reason I ask is I stopped reading him as I found him very repetitive and frankly that he was out of things to say. Is it still strictly gambling, pop culture, hoops/football.

I'm curious to see his audience demos. I started reading him when I was in college. I'm solidly middle aged now. Is it olds like me listening or has he found a way to appeal to current college bros

That’s definitely the majority of it, yeah. He has a lot of good guests though. All the top sports analysts come on and then he’ll get A-list celebrities once in a while like a Matt Damon or a Kevin Durant. I’d imagine his audience is mostly people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s that have been listening to him for a while but I’m sure there’s a spectrum. I listen to a lot of podcasts while I play online poker and he and Zach Lowe are easily my 2 favorite podcasts that aren’t…. (cough) pro wrestling.

Bill is good for what he does with BS podcast I'm pretty new as as big fan of The Ringer pods like : Mismatch, Ringer NBA show, Raja Bell/Logan, The Watch,Ringer Verse, The Rewatchles etc The Ringer has as you say a lot of the best NBA analyst,other guests from The Athletic, Espn,SI etc
Zach Lowe,The Athletic, their NBA people are the only NBA podcasts on the Ringer level imo. He has built so much more than BS show, even legendary reporter like Jackie Mcmullen has left Espn, joined The Ringer, has her own pod.
He is a great interviewer, terrific host, I rate him, his different shows in top 3 podcasts out there and I have never read his articles.

[wegotthabeet]

When you consider all the factors involved this is a very tough list to make. Top player ranking is much easier.

For sure, but this is much more interesting list.

[zimpy27]

Yeah this list is a bit wrong