How strong are the Cavs now?

[QingJames]

Why?

For me anyways, Garland - Mitchell - LeVert is just an atrocious defensive backcourt. But like I said in another post, if Allen and Mobley can stay healthy they will erase a lot of those other guys’ deficiencies.

As I pointed out in another thread, I seriously doubt Levert will be starting at SF, especially now that they have a secondary ball handler to help run the offense. Okoro will most likely be the one starting at that spot, and he's a very good defensive player who has an improving three point shot.

Now does having two 6'1 players hurt the Cavaliers defensively? Sure. But Mitchell is still an upgrade over Sexton in that regard so the results won't be as bad as that was. And not to mention, this significantly improves the Cavaliers offense to the point where I don't even care if it does make our defense worse. It's a great move on Cleveland's part.

If Okoro can become a useful offensive player then I agree, LeVert is not as much of an issue.

I am not an Okoro believer, though. He has been really, really bad on offense through his first two years. We’ll see.

[TheLand13]

For me anyways, Garland - Mitchell - LeVert is just an atrocious defensive backcourt. But like I said in another post, if Allen and Mobley can stay healthy they will erase a lot of those other guys’ deficiencies.

As I pointed out in another thread, I seriously doubt Levert will be starting at SF, especially now that they have a secondary ball handler to help run the offense. Okoro will most likely be the one starting at that spot, and he's a very good defensive player who has an improving three point shot.

Now does having two 6'1 players hurt the Cavaliers defensively? Sure. But Mitchell is still an upgrade over Sexton in that regard so the results won't be as bad as that was. And not to mention, this significantly improves the Cavaliers offense to the point where I don't even care if it does make our defense worse. It's a great move on Cleveland's part.

If Okoro can become a useful offensive player then I agree, LeVert is not as much of an issue.

I am not an Okoro believer, though. He has been really, really bad on offense through his first two years. We’ll see.

He is also really, really young. It's way too early to be counting him out. He's proven that he can improve his three point shot. That's literally all he's going to need to do now thanks to Mitchell being on the team.

[meekrab]

Top-4 team

In the Central division, sure

[AbeVigodaLive]

For me anyways, Garland - Mitchell - LeVert is just an atrocious defensive backcourt. But like I said in another post, if Allen and Mobley can stay healthy they will erase a lot of those other guys’ deficiencies.

As I pointed out in another thread, I seriously doubt Levert will be starting at SF, especially now that they have a secondary ball handler to help run the offense. Okoro will most likely be the one starting at that spot, and he's a very good defensive player who has an improving three point shot.

Now does having two 6'1 players hurt the Cavaliers defensively? Sure. But Mitchell is still an upgrade over Sexton in that regard so the results won't be as bad as that was. And not to mention, this significantly improves the Cavaliers offense to the point where I don't even care if it does make our defense worse. It's a great move on Cleveland's part.

If Okoro can become a useful offensive player then I agree, LeVert is not as much of an issue.

I am not an Okoro believer, though. He has been really, really bad on offense through his first two years. We’ll see.

He's definitely limited. But he improved his three-point shooting to basically league average (35%) in year 2.

Can he maintain it moving forward? He'll have a lot of open looks.

I really like the trade for Cleveland. A young lineup that should be competing for possibly 50 wins now... AND room for improvement.

[Jadoogar]

that lineup is not scaring anyone

? they have 3 allstars and none of them are named evan mobley.
This is a fantastic young core and i don't think their small back court will be as much of a problem with Mobley and Allen in the back. I could see them in the top 4 this year

[QingJames]

As I pointed out in another thread, I seriously doubt Levert will be starting at SF, especially now that they have a secondary ball handler to help run the offense. Okoro will most likely be the one starting at that spot, and he's a very good defensive player who has an improving three point shot.

Now does having two 6'1 players hurt the Cavaliers defensively? Sure. But Mitchell is still an upgrade over Sexton in that regard so the results won't be as bad as that was. And not to mention, this significantly improves the Cavaliers offense to the point where I don't even care if it does make our defense worse. It's a great move on Cleveland's part.

If Okoro can become a useful offensive player then I agree, LeVert is not as much of an issue.

I am not an Okoro believer, though. He has been really, really bad on offense through his first two years. We’ll see.

He is also really, really young. It's way too early to be counting him out. He's proven that he can improve his three point shot. That's literally all he's going to need to do now thanks to Mitchell being on the team.

Agreed, and youth is the biggest asset the Cavs have now IMO. Very young, strong core with room to grow. If Okoro can knock down the wide open shots he will be given at a respectable rate then their ceiling will be much higher, because yeah he is an excellent player on the other end of the court.

I’d still like to see them try and upgrade a bit at the 3, but there’s no urgency for that right now. Wish they hadn’t made that Caris deal so they had some more picks to wheel and deal with. Still, I’m happy for you guys. Should be a real exciting team through Mitchell’s contract at the very least.

[Duffman100]

I had them below or around the Raptors pre-trade.

Now I have them firmly above and in the top 4 of the East.

[jasonxxx102]

For me anyways, Garland - Mitchell - LeVert is just an atrocious defensive backcourt. But like I said in another post, if Allen and Mobley can stay healthy they will erase a lot of those other guys’ deficiencies.

That’s why you start Okoro and not levert

Okoro brings other problems, namely the fact that he is a nonentity on offense and nobody guards him. I am not sure that meaningfully improves their lineup if you swap LeVert for Okoro. Better defense, much worse offense, and with the lack of shooting of Allen and Mobley, you are ensuring a free double on Garland or Mitchell every time down the court.

I am generally dubious about Okoro’s value and longevity in the league. He strikes me as a Thybulle type player in the sense that analytics makes him look much better and more useful than he actually is. I don’t really see him as playable in the postseason, much like Thybulle.

Thybulle is super valuable on the right roster. The best part is that you don’t need Okoro to do anything but defend his heart out. Let him stand in the corner and shoot 33% and you have 2 of the best offensive players in the league to pick up the slack

[TheLand13]

As I pointed out in another thread, I seriously doubt Levert will be starting at SF, especially now that they have a secondary ball handler to help run the offense. Okoro will most likely be the one starting at that spot, and he's a very good defensive player who has an improving three point shot.

Now does having two 6'1 players hurt the Cavaliers defensively? Sure. But Mitchell is still an upgrade over Sexton in that regard so the results won't be as bad as that was. And not to mention, this significantly improves the Cavaliers offense to the point where I don't even care if it does make our defense worse. It's a great move on Cleveland's part.

If Okoro can become a useful offensive player then I agree, LeVert is not as much of an issue.

I am not an Okoro believer, though. He has been really, really bad on offense through his first two years. We’ll see.

He's definitely limited. But he improved his three-point shooting to basically league average (35%) in year 2.

Can he maintain it moving forward? He'll have a lot of open looks.

I really like the trade for Cleveland. A young lineup that should be competing for possibly 50 wins now... AND room for improvement.

That's what I love so much about this trade. Having Mitchell in the starting unit will benefit Okoro greatly in regards to his offensive development. He couldn't focus so much on just being a three and D player last season because of the way the offense was structured. He had to be willing to attack the paint a lot more but sometimes he just wouldn't even get the ball. Having that secondary ball handler out there who can score in bunches all while being able to create his own shot will allow Okoro to get away with camping out at the perimeter more and forcing teams to respect him from there.

If Okoro can become a useful offensive player then I agree, LeVert is not as much of an issue.

I am not an Okoro believer, though. He has been really, really bad on offense through his first two years. We’ll see.

He is also really, really young. It's way too early to be counting him out. He's proven that he can improve his three point shot. That's literally all he's going to need to do now thanks to Mitchell being on the team.

Agreed, and youth is the biggest asset the Cavs have now IMO. Very young, strong core with room to grow. If Okoro can knock down the wide open shots he will be given at a respectable rate then their ceiling will be much higher, because yeah he is an excellent player on the other end of the court.

I’d still like to see them try and upgrade a bit at the 3, but there’s no urgency for that right now. Wish they hadn’t made that Caris deal so they had some more picks to wheel and deal with. Still, I’m happy for you guys. Should be a real exciting team through Mitchell’s contract at the very least.

See here's the crazy thing: I actually really like the Caris deal now. Granted, he is still a pretty flawed player and by no means did he produce the results we needed last season, but having someone like him come off the bench for you does wonders for your team due to what he provides. He can score, he can help run your offense, he can play defense when he wants to. But I think the biggest thing is that now he'll be playing limited minutes. That is great news for all sides. It helps him stay healthy and it changes his role drastically.

Not to mention, Cleveland getting Rubio back is also massive. We got him on such a cheap deal for three years and he will be back most likely in January or February. That's plenty of time for him to get acclimated and finding his groove again. If all goes according to plan, our bench unit will routinely be Rubio/Levert/Osman/Love. That is an insane bench unit for a team like this.

[QingJames]

As I pointed out in another thread, I seriously doubt Levert will be starting at SF, especially now that they have a secondary ball handler to help run the offense. Okoro will most likely be the one starting at that spot, and he's a very good defensive player who has an improving three point shot.

Now does having two 6'1 players hurt the Cavaliers defensively? Sure. But Mitchell is still an upgrade over Sexton in that regard so the results won't be as bad as that was. And not to mention, this significantly improves the Cavaliers offense to the point where I don't even care if it does make our defense worse. It's a great move on Cleveland's part.

If Okoro can become a useful offensive player then I agree, LeVert is not as much of an issue.

I am not an Okoro believer, though. He has been really, really bad on offense through his first two years. We’ll see.

He's definitely limited. But he improved his three-point shooting to basically league average (35%) in year 2.

Can he maintain it moving forward? He'll have a lot of open looks.

I really like the trade for Cleveland. A young lineup that should be competing for possibly 50 wins now... AND room for improvement.

Context is key, though. It was 35% on 2.3 attempts per game (a full attempt less than his first year) and they were all completely wide open shots. You have to shoot much better than that on wide open shots to be respectable, because teams will dare him to let loose 6-7 of those per game.

[Tor_Raps]

Don’t think Mitchell takes them from non-playoff team to top tier east team. Have them fighting for a mid/lower seed.

Injuries were the only reason why the Cavs didn't remain top 5 last year. Now they've basically added Mitchell for Markkenen to that same team and you're saying they're still a lower seed? Not to mention that all their main guys are young and improving...

[QingJames]

That’s why you start Okoro and not levert

Okoro brings other problems, namely the fact that he is a nonentity on offense and nobody guards him. I am not sure that meaningfully improves their lineup if you swap LeVert for Okoro. Better defense, much worse offense, and with the lack of shooting of Allen and Mobley, you are ensuring a free double on Garland or Mitchell every time down the court.

I am generally dubious about Okoro’s value and longevity in the league. He strikes me as a Thybulle type player in the sense that analytics makes him look much better and more useful than he actually is. I don’t really see him as playable in the postseason, much like Thybulle.

Thybulle is super valuable on the right roster. The best part is that you don’t need Okoro to do anything but defend his heart out. Let him stand in the corner and shoot 33% and you have 2 of the best offensive players in the league to pick up the slack

Strong disagree on Thybulle. There is basically no place in the modern NBA for one-way players any more, especially if you can’t score. It just allows free doubles, which is extremely detrimental to your star players’ performances.

And if Okoro is standing in the corner and shooting 33% teams will just let him shoot. He will either chuck them out of the game shooting that badly or he will be told to stop taking those shots and/or pulled. If Okoro is shooting 33% on wide open shots that would be terrible.

[Tor_Raps]

I had them below or around the Raptors pre-trade.

Now I have them firmly above and in the top 4 of the East.

Yup... they have easily surpassed us on paper. They are basically adding Mitchell for Markkenen to a team that was already top 4 when healthy last year.

Their young guys are all improving too. Once Mobley reaches his final form, they will be championship favourites.

[mcfly1204]

A rich man's version of the Lillard\McCollum Portland teams?...

[MrGoat]

Too young to be a true contender but might win a playoffs series or even two if lucky. Could be like last year's Memphis team and take a surprisingly high seed

[Sugarless]

Rubio can't come back soon enough. It's going to be fun as ****.

[rolling_91]

The Cavs are going to be unguardable on offense.

What is it going to be like? Like a version of Steph & Clay.

Garland had nobody on the wing next to him last year so he dealt with tilted defenses. Can't do that with Mitchell on the other side. Plus Garland can play off the ball. And they both have deep range.

You're either dealing with Garland-Allen pick and roll, Mobley-Allen high-low, Mobley at the nail or Mitchell running the same offense with Garland off the ball. Or Garland running off of screens like Steph.

And then if the play is shut down, Garland or Mitchell can both get their own shot.

It was a fair trade but any time you can get a special player for 3 good ones, it is an A+ move.

Kobe Altman throwing down.

[Mind_Odyssey]

It depends entirely on how Mobley develops.

If he can become a Kevin Garnett type of monster, watch out.

[cupcakesnake]

I was already high on Cleveland before the trade. I figured they'd be fighting for homecourt in the East this year. Last year they managed a 7th ranked defense, despite all the injuries. The mobility of Mobley and Allen in the frontcourt makes up for their lack of a good defensive wing (people keep saying Okoro but to me he's a little too small to be a starting defensive 3 in the NBA).

I already thought their offense was going to improve with Sexton in the rotation, and now they've upgraded him to Donovan Mitchell: an absolutely excellent combination of slashing and pull-up 3-point shooting. Spidey will struggle with interior passing again (Allen wont love him anymore than Gobert did) but this team has Garland to feed the bigs, as well as Rubio coming off the bench, if he's healthy.

I think their frontcourt once again gives them a chance at a top 10 defense. Now their backcourt gives them a chance at a top 10 offense. I think the Cavs are going to be a serious problem immediately.

They honestly remind me a little of the Timberwolves now, built around dual bigs and dual guards like that. They probably have a higher long-term ceiling than the Wolves too, with all that youth.

I don't really like Donovan Mitchell very much, but I already got on the Cavs bandwagon and I'm not getting off.

[cupcakesnake]

A rich man's version of the Lillard\McCollum Portland teams?...

But Portland never had 2 mobile defensive bigs playing together on the front line. Cavs were the 7th ranked defense last, and probably would have finished higher without the non-stop injuries.