So how much longer til we admit Klay is cooked?

uberhikari · Post #41 » by **uberhikari** » Thu Nov 3, 2022 12:38 am

He's only played 39 games since coming off two major injuries and missing two years. I'd wanna see where Klay is at 60 games into the season.

homecourtloss · Post #42 » by **homecourtloss** » Thu Nov 3, 2022 12:48 am

DonaldSanders wrote:He is still a huge positive in the Warriors starting lineup when you're looking at the metrics of the starting 5. So I think "cooked" is a bit extreme, but it's clear he is not the same player. He needs to start taking more efficient shots and playing fewer minutes, the trouble is the Warriors' bench is pretty thin so there is no GPII to the rescue. He does however know the system and can still play with the top group. We just need him to start making more efficient choices, he should never shoot more than Steph.

I guarantee he can shoot better, but he likely will never be 40%+ from 3 every season Klay again. Keep in mind he was 38.5% from 3 in the regular season and playoffs last year, I doubt he suddenly has fallen off a cliff. He's in his head with the media comments and didn't play at all during the summer. He will play and shoot better over time, but I question keeping his minutes so high. Moody needs a bit more shine, but you guys shouldn't completely write him off, he can contribute still.

I don’t think there’s any cliff falling but rather a slow but regular decline in all of his game. Defenders are still afraid of him, though, and won’t just let him shoot. I doubt his defense ever comes back to where it was, but his shooting will almost certainly improve.

BigDan245 · Post #43 » by **BigDan245** » Thu Nov 3, 2022 1:14 am

HMFFL wrote:I already expect the Warriors front office to break things up sooner than later. This was mentioned and discussed two seasons ago while Klay was injured and Dray was playing poorly.

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Their starting lineup has the 2nd best +/- in the league...Klay hasn't been good, but he's not the problem or even close to it.

Eagle4 · Post #44 » by **Eagle4** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:34 pm

They will continue to lose games with Klay having 6-17 nights and matador defense.

MrGoat · Post #45 » by **MrGoat** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:37 pm

Lalouie wrote:the "westbrick" thing is getting old already

and howz about waiting until the end of the season
and btw, klay's D is subpar too iff'n you care

Klank Thompson would have been more original

TheDeadDodo · Post #46 » by **TheDeadDodo** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:48 pm

BigDan245 wrote:
HMFFL wrote:I already expect the Warriors front office to break things up sooner than later. This was mentioned and discussed two seasons ago while Klay was injured and Dray was playing poorly.

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Their starting lineup has the 2nd best +/- in the league...Klay hasn't been good, but he's not the problem or even close to it.

They have several big problems, of which Klay is one. The guy's terrible shot selection and refusal to stop chucking has killed at least as many Warriors runs this year as their opponents have.

Exp0sed · Post #47 » by **Exp0sed** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:00 pm

BigDan245 wrote:
HMFFL wrote:I already expect the Warriors front office to break things up sooner than later. This was mentioned and discussed two seasons ago while Klay was injured and Dray was playing poorly.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Their starting lineup has the 2nd best +/- in the league...Klay hasn't been good, but he's not the problem or even close to it.

Theit starting lineup has been good inspite of Klay playing abysmally. Mostly cuz Curry has been trancandent

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DonaldSanders · Post #48 » by **DonaldSanders** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:03 pm

It's definitely time for Klay to move to the bench. He has more shots than points this season, Poole and the whole team looks a lot better when Poole starts. I've been back and forth at times whether to have Klay come off the bench (I wanted him to last season) but this season it looked like the bench was the problem and I was worried that Klay would fit in even worse there. But when we saw what happened when Poole started, all our pieces fit together better.

Love Klay but the injuries mixed with age mean it's time for him to move to the bench or the season is going to be lost. He will have an easier time on the bench, it's time. We gave him the chance he deserves.

Woodsanity · Post #49 » by **Woodsanity** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:13 pm

He has been so bad that he makes Westbrook look like an efficiency god in comparison. Also his defense is putrid.

naabzor · Post #50 » by **naabzor** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:14 pm

He still had 19 points per game in the last year playoffs run... I am still waiting to write him off.

hippesthippo · Post #51 » by **hippesthippo** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:16 pm

lonzo_pelota wrote:Cooked is if he has another season ending injury that he cant recover from, he's in a shooting slump, he's been such a prolific shooter this slump stands out , but give the courtesy to shoot himself out of it, he deserves that less than 10 games into a 82 game season
bradley beal shot 30% from 3 last season and got a supermax as a reward to put things in perspective, klay helped u win a chip

I don't know what happened to Beal's shot. It was picture perfect coming out of college, %'s have been janky for a while now, haven't they? I don't watch Washington... maybe it's just shot selection.

Klay looks like he's shooting worse because he's lost a step. When he was raining three's in his prime he was doing it with a sliver of space. He still only needs a sliver of space, but he's having a lot more trouble finding it because he's slower.

Still, I'm willing to give a shooter of Klay's reputation the chance to shoot himself out of this slump. Hell, maybe it's just a conditioning issue. Even knowing full well that his defense will never recover to the point where he's suffocating point guards, or anything close, if I'm Steve Kerr I'm still not ready to take him out of the starting lineup unless he specifically asks to come off the bench.

Post #52 » by **slick_watts** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:17 pm

wait, is anyone still waiting on this? he's obviously done.

playoffs · Post #53 » by **playoffs** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:30 pm

Klay might be cooked, but I think the Ws are correct in letting him try to shoot through his woes. Shooting slumps happen (especially when he's still recovering from his injuries) and if there's a chance he can get past the slump by Playoff time, assuming they make the playoffs of course, then it's worth it imo. Remember Steph's huge shooting slump last season. People thought he forgot how to shoot, and then he carried them to the title.

Benching Klay so early in the season would doom his confidence and might kill any chances of him regaining his form. It might be wise to replace him with Poole in the starting lineup at some point, but not quite yet.

Impuniti · Post #54 » by **Impuniti** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:36 pm

hippesthippo wrote:
lonzo_pelota wrote:Cooked is if he has another season ending injury that he cant recover from, he's in a shooting slump, he's been such a prolific shooter this slump stands out , but give the courtesy to shoot himself out of it, he deserves that less than 10 games into a 82 game season
bradley beal shot 30% from 3 last season and got a supermax as a reward to put things in perspective, klay helped u win a chip

I don't know what happened to Beal's shot. It was picture perfect coming out of college, %'s have been janky for a while now, haven't they? I don't watch Washington... maybe it's just shot selection.

Klay looks like he's shooting worse because he's lost a step. When he was raining three's in his prime he was doing it with a sliver of space. He still only needs a sliver of space, but he's having a lot more trouble finding it because he's slower.

Still, I'm willing to give a shooter of Klay's reputation the chance to shoot himself out of this slump. Hell, maybe it's just a conditioning issue. Even knowing full well that his defense will never recover to the point where he's suffocating point guards, or anything close, if I'm Steve Kerr I'm still not ready to take him out of the starting lineup unless he specifically asks to come off the bench.

You clearly want the Warriors to fight the Pistons for the Wemba sweepstakes for some reason.

CraftylikeaFox · Post #55 » by **CraftylikeaFox** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:40 pm

DonaldSanders wrote:It's definitely time for Klay to move to the bench. He has more shots than points this season, Poole and the whole team looks a lot better when Poole starts. I've been back and forth at times whether to have Klay come off the bench (I wanted him to last season) but this season it looked like the bench was the problem and I was worried that Klay would fit in even worse there. But when we saw what happened when Poole started, all our pieces fit together better.

Love Klay but the injuries mixed with age mean it's time for him to move to the bench or the season is going to be lost. He will have an easier time on the bench, it's time. We gave him the chance he deserves.

I also feel like he's one of the type of guys that wouldn't have a problem with this. He seems to have a really good team first demeanor and it's not like he has anything to worry about legacy wise.

dhsilv2 · Post #56 » by **dhsilv2** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:48 pm

og15 wrote:
shi-woo wrote:He's not the same defender, but you don't just forget how to shoot. He's still learning his new body and his new normal. He's also not playing the same role that he did before injury.

Wiggins has taken Klays role, and Klay now has the Harrison Barnes role. There is nothing wrong with that, and I expect to see him putting up Barnes type numbers by the end of the year.

Barnes in 201 gave them 12/5/2 on 47/38/76 in 2016

I expect Klay to do better in that role and give the Warriors like 15/3/2 on 45/40/85. Which is all that they need really

Give Klay his respect, for a guy that is chill and likes to joke around, he really is a true competitor

Klay is currently taking 14 FGA in 26 mpg btw, 19 FGA/36, I'm not sure that's the Barnes role.

I'd add Wiggins can't slip into Klay's offensive role. They're just too different of players.

hippesthippo · Post #57 » by **hippesthippo** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:55 pm

Where's the offense coming from off the bench if Poole is starting? Klay can't play point guard, so who is running the offense?

It would require some impressive staggering of Curry, Green, and Poole in order to make Klay coming off the bench a good option.

hippesthippo · Post #58 » by **hippesthippo** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:02 pm

Impuniti wrote:
hippesthippo wrote:
lonzo_pelota wrote:Cooked is if he has another season ending injury that he cant recover from, he's in a shooting slump, he's been such a prolific shooter this slump stands out , but give the courtesy to shoot himself out of it, he deserves that less than 10 games into a 82 game season
bradley beal shot 30% from 3 last season and got a supermax as a reward to put things in perspective, klay helped u win a chip

I don't know what happened to Beal's shot. It was picture perfect coming out of college, %'s have been janky for a while now, haven't they? I don't watch Washington... maybe it's just shot selection.

Klay looks like he's shooting worse because he's lost a step. When he was raining three's in his prime he was doing it with a sliver of space. He still only needs a sliver of space, but he's having a lot more trouble finding it because he's slower.

Still, I'm willing to give a shooter of Klay's reputation the chance to shoot himself out of this slump. Hell, maybe it's just a conditioning issue. Even knowing full well that his defense will never recover to the point where he's suffocating point guards, or anything close, if I'm Steve Kerr I'm still not ready to take him out of the starting lineup unless he specifically asks to come off the bench.

You clearly want the Warriors to fight the Pistons for the Wemba sweepstakes for some reason.

Nah, I'm not the type of fan to concern himself with counting lottery balls. If a team is bad, then they'll lose, and they'll get themselves a lotto ticket. It takes more than that to build a winning team. You still have to pick the right guys. Draft position doesn't matter if you pass on Devin Booker and Donovan Mitchell and so on and so forth. And you still have to develop them right like Khris Middleton and Spencer Dinwiddie.

Post #59 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:08 pm

Shocker the guy isn't the same after missing 2 full NBA seasons. He's also more important to the warriors than he'd be to the average team, so can't take his stats at face value. 19 PPG on 55% TS en route to the title is a lot more relevant than a rough start to the regular season.

DonaldSanders · Post #60 » by **DonaldSanders** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:19 pm

CraftylikeaFox wrote:I also feel like he's one of the type of guys that wouldn't have a problem with this. He seems to have a really good team first demeanor and it's not like he has anything to worry about legacy wise.

I think in time he can handle it, but I'm not sure it would be easy for him right now. He is in a bad spot mentally and is really trying to will himself into being all-star Klay again. It's gonna crush him to be moved to the bench.

Clyde Frazier wrote:Shocker the guy isn't the same after missing 2 full NBA seasons. He's also more important to the warriors than he'd be to the average team, so can't take his stats at face value. 19 PPG on 55% TS en route to the title is a lot more relevant than a rough start to the regular season.

Thing is that Poole looks a LOT better in the starting lineup (we started what 20-2 last season with him there), so keeping Klay starting is costing us production from JP. It's time to pass the baton. Klay is having a tough time guarding top end players, GPII was a godsend when he came back in the Finals but he is gone now.

If the Warriors are going to get going, it's by unlocking the upside of Poole & the young guys, mainly Poole. He's much more naturally a complimentary SG than he is a point guard that creates. Watch him starting vs. the Spurs, I know it is just one game but he fits in so much better with the starters than forcing him to try to carry the bench.