Why Drew Timme was undrafted?

[azcatz11]

He was not very good, I dont feel like he would make a good pro at all from all the games I watched I never understood the amount of "success" he had with Gonzaga

Not taking away anything from them but they obviously play a cupcake schedule. He’s going against Pepperdine and San Francisco twice a year.

That's a solid conference they play in. Santa Clara has had two first round picks in back to back years. There's a lot of talent spread all across the country. This is college football where its all about three conferences and that's it.

It is 'solid' but it's not power 5...I enjoy WCC hoops but they play a ton of cream puffs. If the argument is another team has had back 2 back FRP's that kind of proves my point...Gonzaga is an amazing program however so I am not trying to delegitimize anything they have done.

[FreeSpiritNY]

Some tall white people suck at professional basketball.

So do some tall black players

What’s your point ?

[Pharmcat]

Who

[Mickey8]

To people wondering why mention Jokic...That was his pre-draft comparison...

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/drew-timme/

Jose Garbajosa ??? I don't get that comparison either. NBAdraft.net is known for being horrible.

[DrCoach]

Timme is undersized for a C at 6’8 and he has cinder-blocks for feet. Zero chance he would be able to defend at the next level. Add to that the fact that despite his skilled footwork and nice touch down low, he can’t shoot the 3-ball. He’s just not a pro prospect. Maybe 30 years ago, but not today. He should have a decent career in Europe though.

Hes 6’10

[Castle Black]

Timme is undersized for a C at 6’8 and he has cinder-blocks for feet. Zero chance he would be able to defend at the next level. Add to that the fact that despite his skilled footwork and nice touch down low, he can’t shoot the 3-ball. He’s just not a pro prospect. Maybe 30 years ago, but not today. He should have a decent career in Europe though.

Hes 6’10

Measured 6’8.25 barefoot at the combine last year.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/drew-timme/

[MrBigShot]

Luka Garza is a very capable 3pt shooter and he can barely even get any playing time.

No defense, no 3pt shooting, and limited athleticism is a disastrous combo for any big with hopes of playing in the NBA.

[Clyde Frazier]

He'll probably give the g league a shot for 2 years before going to euroleague.

[andyhop]

Luka Garza is a very capable 3pt shooter and he can barely even get any playing time.

No defense, no 3pt shooting, and limited athleticism is a disastrous combo for any big with hopes of playing in the NBA.

Garza was such a fun player this year in his limited minutes, He was exactly what you would expect very good offensively very bad defensively

[hippesthippo]

Wasn’t he projected to go as a first rounder last year? It doesn’t always pay to stay that extra year in college

No? I don't remember Timme ever having 1st year buzz the last two seasons. Not close to draft time, at least.

I remember 2nd round, possibly late late 1st depending on positioning/team.

He could still be an OK big off the bench on a team with good perimeter defenders and/or likes to run a lot of motion and dho sets.

[Clemenza]

Not taking away anything from them but they obviously play a cupcake schedule. He’s going against Pepperdine and San Francisco twice a year.

That's a solid conference they play in. Santa Clara has had two first round picks in back to back years. There's a lot of talent spread all across the country. This is college football where its all about three conferences and that's it.

It is 'solid' but it's not power 5...I enjoy WCC hoops but they play a ton of cream puffs. If the argument is another team has had back 2 back FRP's that kind of proves my point...Gonzaga is an amazing program however so I am not trying to delegitimize anything they have done.

You can't rip the whole conference because one guy played four years and didn't get drafted. Gonzaga has a one or two first round picks damn near every year. I don't see the super edge in power five basketball like it is in college football. Either you got that gene to take it to the next level in hoops or you don't. All these super small tiny schools making the Sweet 16 and Final Four these days. Curry went to Davidson, JA went to Murray State, Dame went to Weber State, PG Fresno State, Kawhi San Diego State, Jokic was a 2nd round pick. The power 5 really means something in football but is whatever in college basketball imo

[ChiTownHero1992]

Luka Garza is a very capable 3pt shooter and he can barely even get any playing time.

No defense, no 3pt shooting, and limited athleticism is a disastrous combo for any big with hopes of playing in the NBA.

Good comparison Luka has many advantages too including measurements:

Luka - 6'11" 248 - a centers body and a shooter
Drew - 6''8" 243 - a small forward body nowadays

[Nuntius]

Now, about the OP. Not all college roles translate over to the NBA. Some archetypes are notoriously unlikely to translate. Timme falls within that archetype. Azuolas Tubelis falls within that archetype. Luka Garza falls within that archetype. All of them have been very high level players in college but they simply do not fit the NBA. They are good basketball players and they can have excellent pro careers on other high level leagues, they just do not fit the NBA.

I actually think Luka Garza is pretty decent in the NBA given the opportunity. Good 10th or 11th man for certain matchups.

He hasn't gotten a ton of opportunity yet and I don't think that he will. But he is still young so he may work his way into being a rotational player at some point in his career.

Even in that case, though, he won't be close to his level in college. In college, he was a dominant player. In the NBA, he never has the chance to be that. He can have a good career over here, though.

Again, it is all about the player type, imo. Some player types fit way better in the NBA than in the NCAA. They just translate a lot better and they can even scale up their production. Other player types just do not work. They just don't translate. It's not even the fault of the player himself. It's just that the two leagues are way different and require different skillsets.

I would put it like this:

It's not that players of these player type (Timme, Garza, Tubelis) are worse basketball players than the guys who end up becoming rotational players at the NBA level (talking about the players that are in the 300-400 range here). They aren't worse at basketball than those guys. They simply do not fit the NBA ruleset and style of play at all. They are much worse NBA players and NBA prospects than those other guys.

Under a different ruleset and a different style of play, they could definitely be better. They do have a high level of basketball skill. They just do not fit the NBA in any way, shape or form.

[Nuntius]

Luka Garza is a very capable 3pt shooter and he can barely even get any playing time.

No defense, no 3pt shooting, and limited athleticism is a disastrous combo for any big with hopes of playing in the NBA.

Good comparison Luka has many advantages too including measurements:

Luka - 6'11" 248 - a centers body and a shooter
Drew - 6''8" 243 - a small forward body nowadays

The measurement you gave for Timme is flat out wrong. Timme measured at 6'8.75 without shoes on. Exact same measurement as Tubelis. That means that with shoes on, they're about 6'10.

Granted, Garza is bigger. Garza measured at 6'10 without shoes on. Garza is a legit 6'11 so, yeah, he's bigger. That part is accurate.

Another disagreement I have is that 6'8 and 243 is a small forward body nowadays. It's not. A lot of PFs are in that range nowadays. 6'8 is no longer undersized for a PF.

[brutalitops]

Because he's a below average passer. His most reliable/only way to score is pretty redundant in the NBA (in the low post). And a lot of that was up and unders and go into the NBA where everyone he's gonna match up is a way better shot blocker/ taller he's not going to even get that shot

He's flat footed in a level below the NBA so he would look a lot worse in the NBA. Plus is not a shot blocker and can't switch

So why would he be drafted?

[PlatinumState]

I think Timme can kill playing anywhere in Europe

[QPR]

I don't think he's an NBA player for the reasons outlined in this thread but it's weird that people want to try and downplay his college career.

[Nuntius]

Timme is undersized for a C at 6’8 and he has cinder-blocks for feet. Zero chance he would be able to defend at the next level. Add to that the fact that despite his skilled footwork and nice touch down low, he can’t shoot the 3-ball. He’s just not a pro prospect. Maybe 30 years ago, but not today. He should have a decent career in Europe though.

Guys, Timme is not 6'8. When you measure at near 6'9 in the combine without shoes on then your NBA height is 6'10. Period. Size isn't why Timme won't play at the NBA level. It is all about the way he plays.

For a player of Timme's play style to succeed at the NBA level, he needs to be a freaking outlier at what he does. Domantas Sabonis is successful player at the NBA level because his passing and feel for the game are outlier levels of good (he's also a good interior scorer, great rebounder, has a passable mid-range shot, plays smart on both ends of the court so he is fine defensively, plays hard et cetera). Sengun will be a successful player at the NBA level because, in a similar vein with Sabonis, his passing and feel for the game are outlier levels of good.

Timme is a fine passer. He is a smart and crafty player. But he's nowhere near the levels of Sabonis and Sengun. He is NOT outlier levels of good at it.

Frankly, I believe that Colin Castleton has a better chance of becoming a successful NBA player than Timme does. Castleton is a better ball-handler and passer than Timme is and his live-dribble passing gives him a pathway into having an outlier skill. He's a bit like Mamukelashvlili. Chances are that neither of them will make it at the NBA level but there is a pathway for them to become successful. You can sell yourself that they have a chance to offer you something that you cannot easily find in this league and can help your team out. You just cannot make that sell with Timme.

[Nuntius]

That's a solid conference they play in. Santa Clara has had two first round picks in back to back years. There's a lot of talent spread all across the country. This is college football where its all about three conferences and that's it.

It is 'solid' but it's not power 5...I enjoy WCC hoops but they play a ton of cream puffs. If the argument is another team has had back 2 back FRP's that kind of proves my point...Gonzaga is an amazing program however so I am not trying to delegitimize anything they have done.

You can't rip the whole conference because one guy played four years and didn't get drafted. Gonzaga has a one or two first round picks damn near every year. I don't see the super edge in power five basketball like it is in college football. Either you got that gene to take it to the next level in hoops or you don't. All these super small tiny schools making the Sweet 16 and Final Four these days. Curry went to Davidson, JA went to Murray State, Dame went to Weber State, PG Fresno State, Kawhi San Diego State, Jokic was a 2nd round pick. The power 5 really means something in football but is whatever in college basketball imo

I don't follow a ton of college basketball but based on what I see from the draft then, yeah, I agree. Gonzaga always produces solid NBA talent. They had Chet than year but other than Chet, we picked Andrew Nembhard at #31 and he was a freaking steal.

As someone else mentioned, Santa Clara has had first round picks in back-to-back years. Jalen Williams was an awesome pick for OKC last year (another steal relative to his draft range) and I expect Brandin Podziemski to be great for GSW as well. I don't see an issue with the WCC.

And, frankly, who cares about the conference? The conference does not determine whether a player will succeed or fail at the NBA level. It affects their draft buzz and where they're slated to go, yes, but it doesn't affect whether they will actually succeed or not. As you said, a lot of players went to small schools and they ended up being amazing. Heck, my team picked a guy from Belmont at #26 and I'm freaking excited for him (not that he'll become a star or anything, just a really solid role player for us).

[Nuntius]

Timme is undersized for a C at 6’8 and he has cinder-blocks for feet. Zero chance he would be able to defend at the next level. Add to that the fact that despite his skilled footwork and nice touch down low, he can’t shoot the 3-ball. He’s just not a pro prospect. Maybe 30 years ago, but not today. He should have a decent career in Europe though.

Hes 6’10

Measured 6’8.25 barefoot at the combine last year.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/drew-timme/

And he measured 6'8.75 barefoot this year:

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro?dir=D&sort=HEIGHT_WO_SHOES&SeasonYear=2023-24

6'8.75 barefoot translates into 6'10 with shoes on. DrCoach is right, Timme's actual height when on a basketball court is somewhere around 6'10.