How does Atlanta Hawks get over mediocrity?

[Madvillainy2004]

Hopefully trading for Siakam or OG (I say as a bored Raptors fan) lol

[tcheco]

I think we are a bit to anxious about teams going all in too quickly. Took bucks a few years, busts(Parker), a star developing(Giannis) and a big trade(Jrue) to get them there.

They have Trae who is a potencial star, even with his limitations, traded for Murray who is a weird fit with Trae, in theory he could cover for Trae defensive lackluster performance, but needs the ball in it's hand to be more effective. They need someone from the younger guys to develop into that third piece. OO or Hunter should be that piece... Capela and Bogs are good pieces but they need that third best player to be better than what they have right now. Jalen Johnson took a leap this year that could mean he can get there... but wouldn't be bad to make a move if available

[iggymcfrack]

Fun facts:

-The Atlanta Hawks have the second highest rORtg in their history at +4.8 trailing only the 1990 team which... went 41-41.

-The Atlanta Hawks have the second worst rDRtg in their history at +5.3 trailing only the 2006 team which went 26-56.

Their biggest problems are opponent 2-point percentage, defensive rebounding, and giving up a lot of shots at the rim. They rank near the bottom of the league in all 3 categories. Their best hope for getting better there would be that Okongwu develops into a legit star rim protector. Maybe cut bait on Capela (who's played well), get what you can for him, bottom out a little in the short term enough that you can get another lotto pick or two, give Okongwu more minutes for development and hope that in a year or two, he can be a legit star. It's tough though because there just aren't a lot of moves to made. Hunter just started a 4 year $90MM extension and he has a BPM of -2.5 or worse for the third year in a row. Like they really just made a bunch of moves to lock in mediocrity. At this point, I think they're just kind of along for the ride.

Interestingly, their best defender statistically by on/off has been Jalen Johnson. The defense is 8.5 points better with him on the floor. Since he got hurt, the Hawks have lost 6 of their last 7 games with a 2 point win over the Spurs being their lone bright spot. They've been outscored by 61 points over those 7 games. Maybe he can develop into the forward stopper of the future. Trae, Bey, Johnson, and Okongwu could be a good core for the future, but I don't think it's going to mature in time to fit with the current vets.

Yeah, honestly I think the move is to gently shop Capela and Bogdanovic for younger talent and picks. Don't just fire sale them, but test the market and see if there's a good offer out there worth moving on. They could probably get to top 7 in lottery odds for a season or two and then retool around the current core. Will that be enough to keep Trae happy though? It's a tough balancing act.

[durden_tyler]

Tra(d)e Young.

What can they get in return?

Not much unfortunately. Such an overrated "superstar" (because he isn't one)

[Ball4life32]

Tra(d)e Young.

What can they get in return?

Not much unfortunately. Such an overrated "superstar" (because he isn't one)

He isn’t getting traded unless he demands out and this isn’t based on much.

[threethehardway]

The fact that RealGM and majority of NBA fandom are still talking about Trae Young being the problem despite, once again, leading a mediocre team to a top offense in the NBA proves that most fans don't watch games and go off what other fans say about players and teams that they don't watch.

The Hawks suck because the Hawks don't know how to draft and they hold on to players that aren't worth holding on to.

For example, the Hawks have held on to DeAndre Hunter and OO for too damn long. Both should've been traded 2 seasons ago. They are not that good. Deandre Hunter plays like he is 5'10 and OO is too damn gentle and small to start at C and lacks the ball skills to be a PF.

The Hawks suck because they don't know how to trade. Why would anybody trade for the homeless man version of Russell Westbrook? I don't even know what people see in a player like Dejounte, he's such a losing player.

The Hawks suck because they don't know when to tank. They had Trae Young under contract, he wasn't gonna go anywhere, they could've tanked for someone like Paolo during the Covid/injury season after they went to the playoffs.

The Hawks suck because their front office lack vision.

The Hawks will not be good until a Lebron James level of player comes through there and forces the front office not to be stupid.

[hyper316]

The fact that RealGM and majority of NBA fandom are still talking about Trae Young being the problem despite, once again, leading a mediocre team to a top offense in the NBA proves that most fans don't watch games and go off what other fans say about players and teams that they don't watch.

The Hawks suck because the Hawks don't know how to draft and they hold on to players that aren't worth holding on too.

For example, the Hawks have held on to DeAndre Hunter and OO for too damn long. Both should've been traded 2 seasons ago. They are not that good. Deandre Hunter plays like he is 5'10 and OO is too damn gentle and small to start at C and lacks the ball skills to be a PF.

The Hawks suck because they don't know how to trade. Why would anybody trade for the homeless man version of Russell Westbrook? I don't even know what people see in a player like Dejounte, he's such a losing player.

The Hawks suck because they don't know when to tank. They had Trae Young under contract, he wasn't gonna go anywhere, they could've tanked for someone like Paolo during the Covid/injury season after they went to the playoffs.

The Hawks suck because their front office lack vision.

The Hawks will not be good until a Lebron James level of player comes through there and forces the front office not to be stupid.

Luka was the closest thing Hawk had to LeBron and they flipped him lol

[ITYSL]

They went from like a top 10 offense and top 15 defense to top 5 offense but one of the worst defenses. Bad team strategy.

Trade Murray, find a younger Capela, and get a 2 guard that can play perimeter defense and shoot the 3 without needing the ball in his hands.

[hyper316]

They went from like a top 10 offense and top 15 defense to top 5 offense but one of the worst defenses. Bad team strategy.

Trade Murray, find a younger Capela, and get a 2 guard that can play perimeter defense and shoot the 3 without needing the ball in his hands.

Trae Young
Alex Caruso
Jalen Johnson
OG
Nic Claxton

[Bornstellar]

Fun facts:

-The Atlanta Hawks have the second highest rORtg in their history at +4.8 trailing only the 1990 team which... went 41-41.

-The Atlanta Hawks have the second worst rDRtg in their history at +5.3 trailing only the 2006 team which went 26-56.

Their biggest problems are opponent 2-point percentage, defensive rebounding, and giving up a lot of shots at the rim. They rank near the bottom of the league in all 3 categories. Their best hope for getting better there would be that Okongwu develops into a legit star rim protector. Maybe cut bait on Capela (who's played well), get what you can for him, bottom out a little in the short term enough that you can get another lotto pick or two, give Okongwu more minutes for development and hope that in a year or two, he can be a legit star. It's tough though because there just aren't a lot of moves to made. Hunter just started a 4 year $90MM extension and he has a BPM of -2.5 or worse for the third year in a row. Like they really just made a bunch of moves to lock in mediocrity. At this point, I think they're just kind of along for the ride.

Interestingly, their best defender statistically by on/off has been Jalen Johnson. The defense is 8.5 points better with him on the floor. Since he got hurt, the Hawks have lost 6 of their last 7 games with a 2 point win over the Spurs being their lone bright spot. They've been outscored by 61 points over those 7 games. Maybe he can develop into the forward stopper of the future. Trae, Bey, Johnson, and Okongwu could be a good core for the future, but I don't think it's going to mature in time to fit with the current vets.

Yeah, honestly I think the move is to gently shop Capela and Bogdanovic for younger talent and picks. Don't just fire sale them, but test the market and see if there's a good offer out there worth moving on. They could probably get to top 7 in lottery odds for a season or two and then retool around the current core. Will that be enough to keep Trae happy though? It's a tough balancing act.

Except that the Spurs own their picks unprotected in 2025 and 2027 and have unprotected swap rights in 2026. So they can only really bottom out this year if they're going to try and swing for a star in the draft. Which is why trading Young is probably their best best since he can recoup some of those draft picks.

That Murray trade is looking worse and worse for them

[Ball4life32]

Fun facts:

-The Atlanta Hawks have the second highest rORtg in their history at +4.8 trailing only the 1990 team which... went 41-41.

-The Atlanta Hawks have the second worst rDRtg in their history at +5.3 trailing only the 2006 team which went 26-56.

Their biggest problems are opponent 2-point percentage, defensive rebounding, and giving up a lot of shots at the rim. They rank near the bottom of the league in all 3 categories. Their best hope for getting better there would be that Okongwu develops into a legit star rim protector. Maybe cut bait on Capela (who's played well), get what you can for him, bottom out a little in the short term enough that you can get another lotto pick or two, give Okongwu more minutes for development and hope that in a year or two, he can be a legit star. It's tough though because there just aren't a lot of moves to made. Hunter just started a 4 year $90MM extension and he has a BPM of -2.5 or worse for the third year in a row. Like they really just made a bunch of moves to lock in mediocrity. At this point, I think they're just kind of along for the ride.

Interestingly, their best defender statistically by on/off has been Jalen Johnson. The defense is 8.5 points better with him on the floor. Since he got hurt, the Hawks have lost 6 of their last 7 games with a 2 point win over the Spurs being their lone bright spot. They've been outscored by 61 points over those 7 games. Maybe he can develop into the forward stopper of the future. Trae, Bey, Johnson, and Okongwu could be a good core for the future, but I don't think it's going to mature in time to fit with the current vets.

Yeah, honestly I think the move is to gently shop Capela and Bogdanovic for younger talent and picks. Don't just fire sale them, but test the market and see if there's a good offer out there worth moving on. They could probably get to top 7 in lottery odds for a season or two and then retool around the current core. Will that be enough to keep Trae happy though? It's a tough balancing act.

Except that the Spurs own their picks unprotected in 2025 and 2027 and have unprotected swap rights in 2026. So they can only really bottom out this year if they're going to try and swing for a star in the draft. Which is why trading Young is probably their best best since he can recoup some of those draft picks.

That Murray trade is looking worse and worse for them

This but hawks already have mid 1st round picks that can’t crack their rotation. I don’t think losing the 2025 first round and 2027 first round picks means they trade Trae to recoup potential mid picks (still too early to tell I guess). Plus atleast Murray got extended at a good deal…he should have good value if hawks decided they wanted to trade him.

[ChuckChilly]

One more thing I wanted to add. The fact that Trae Young has the attitude that the regular season is boring hurts the franchise because they are not a good enough team to lose winnable games. It would be one thing if the team was 18-5, but with so many competitive teams across both conferences you really can't afford to have your energy wax and wane.

People are still riding that quote from two years ago? We barely make the playoffs now and our roster/ coach is different. But that was just Trae gassed up, foolishly thinking we were perennial contenders at the beginning of that season. I'm sure that reality has kicked in by now.

[Rainwater]

Tra(d)e Young.

What can they get in return?

Orlando has a lot to offer and should consider it.
Brooklyn
Miami
If I were the pelicans I’d consider throwing Zion for Trae

Wemby and Trae would be devious together

Please don’t send Trae to Orlando that will kill the vibe. Dude is an inefficient chucker.

[Rainwater]

The fact that RealGM and majority of NBA fandom are still talking about Trae Young being the problem despite, once again, leading a mediocre team to a top offense in the NBA proves that most fans don't watch games and go off what other fans say about players and teams that they don't watch.

The Hawks suck because the Hawks don't know how to draft and they hold on to players that aren't worth holding on too.

For example, the Hawks have held on to DeAndre Hunter and OO for too damn long. Both should've been traded 2 seasons ago. They are not that good. Deandre Hunter plays like he is 5'10 and OO is too damn gentle and small to start at C and lacks the ball skills to be a PF.

The Hawks suck because they don't know how to trade. Why would anybody trade for the homeless man version of Russell Westbrook? I don't even know what people see in a player like Dejounte, he's such a losing player.

The Hawks suck because they don't know when to tank. They had Trae Young under contract, he wasn't gonna go anywhere, they could've tanked for someone like Paolo during the Covid/injury season after they went to the playoffs.

The Hawks suck because their front office lack vision.

The Hawks will not be good until a Lebron James level of player comes through there and forces the front office not to be stupid.

I feel Trae is the problem and Hawks fans will always blame everyone but him and funny thing he hasn’t been good at all this season yet gets little blame. You guys have fired coaches because of Trae and traded players to fit this system. Yes, because of Trae’s passing skills he has led you guys to a top 10 offense but you guy have to sacrifice on defense due to Trae. Dude is highly inefficient from the field yet he continues to chuck. At some point there has to be a realization that building around Trae is not a good idea.

[Clav]

I'm in the trade DeAndre Hunter camp. He's been -2.4 VORP of his draft class. The worst.

[threethehardway]

I feel Trae is the problem and Hawks fans will always blame everyone but him and funny thing he hasn’t been good at all this season yet gets little blame. You guys have fired coaches because of Trae and traded players to fit this system. Yes, because of Trae’s passing skills he has led you guys to a top 10 offense but you guy have to sacrifice on defense due to Trae. Dude is highly inefficient from the field yet he continues to chuck. At some point there has to be a realization that building around Trae is not a good idea.

Lol, you guys feel like Trae is the problem because none of you guys actually watch any damn games and don't even know the machinations of this front office.

Trae doesn't actually chuck shots.

Trae actually tries on defense.

Trae actually wasn't even supposed to be the best player on the damn team. The best player was supposed to be Cam Reddish or DeAndre Hunter but the Hawks don't really know how to draft and Trae was good enough to overcome the Hawks poor drafting.

Like I said, none of you guys know anything and comment the same exact thing that was said 2 years ago, as if it matters today and it was even inaccurate then.

Trae has played under 3 different coaches his entire career, what system? He's played 3 different ways. He's played slow, he's played fast, he's played with a secondary ball handler and even now he plays as a wing half the time to let other guys handle the ball.

And coaches get themselves fired, most coaches and front offices in the NBA are terrible and are saved by great players.

Trae wasn't expected to and shouldn't be the best player on the Hawks. The Hawks front office is just freaking dumb like most of the NBA.

[SkyHook]

Trae Young’s TO career avg is 4.1, and his DBPM is negative. He depends on his FT% to keep his TS% above, cause his eFG% are AWFUL 48.9 with the 54.3 the overall average.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[Lalouie]

the history of the hawks has been as a flashy do nothing franchise

[iggymcfrack]

The fact that RealGM and majority of NBA fandom are still talking about Trae Young being the problem despite, once again, leading a mediocre team to a top offense in the NBA proves that most fans don't watch games and go off what other fans say about players and teams that they don't watch.

The Hawks suck because the Hawks don't know how to draft and they hold on to players that aren't worth holding on too.

For example, the Hawks have held on to DeAndre Hunter and OO for too damn long. Both should've been traded 2 seasons ago. They are not that good. Deandre Hunter plays like he is 5'10 and OO is too damn gentle and small to start at C and lacks the ball skills to be a PF.

The Hawks suck because they don't know how to trade. Why would anybody trade for the homeless man version of Russell Westbrook? I don't even know what people see in a player like Dejounte, he's such a losing player.

The Hawks suck because they don't know when to tank. They had Trae Young under contract, he wasn't gonna go anywhere, they could've tanked for someone like Paolo during the Covid/injury season after they went to the playoffs.

The Hawks suck because their front office lack vision.

The Hawks will not be good until a Lebron James level of player comes through there and forces the front office not to be stupid.

I feel Trae is the problem and Hawks fans will always blame everyone but him and funny thing he hasn’t been good at all this season yet gets little blame. You guys have fired coaches because of Trae and traded players to fit this system. Yes, because of Trae’s passing skills he has led you guys to a top 10 offense but you guy have to sacrifice on defense due to Trae. Dude is highly inefficient from the field yet he continues to chuck. At some point there has to be a realization that building around Trae is not a good idea.

Trae's not that bad defensively that he's singlehandedly causing the Hawks' defensive issues. He's ranked in the 51st percentile and the 45th percentile in defensive on/off the last 2 seasons. Not saying he's actually an average defender, but he's a lot better than he used to be and he isn't the problem. Trae's actually a bargain on his current contract. He's like De'Aaron Fox. Has his flaws, but is still a hugely valuable player.

[Ball4life32]

Trae Young’s TO career avg is 4.1, and his DBPM is negative. He depends on his FT% to keep his TS% above, cause his eFG% are AWFUL 48.9 with the 54.3 the overall average.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

All this yet Trae has led a top 10 offense 4 years in a row and about the same numbers of turnovers as Luka or prime Harden. High usage players usually turn the ball over.

Hawks nba ranks in offensive efficiency last 4 seasons

23/24 #5 in offensive efficiency

22/23: #6 in offensive efficiency

21/22: #2 in offensive efficiency

20/21: #9 in offensive efficiency (the yr hawks went to ECF)

So the worst hawks offense over the last 4 years was the best team they had. Defense is absolutely a problem. And it isn’t just half court defenses it’s terrible transition defense to go along with bad defensive rebounding.

I'm in the trade DeAndre Hunter camp. He's been -2.4 VORP of his draft class. The worst.

Agreed his analytics are awful. Really disappointing player.