NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

[GSWFan1994]

For now it's between Giannis and Jokic, IMHO.

Embiid is in this tier as well, though I'm afraid he won't make it in the end due to the minimum games played requirement.

After these 3 players, the next tier is Shai, Luka and perhaps Tatum.

I voted for Giannis because I think he has a been a bit more consistent than Jokic in the past month.

[timO]

SGA easy

Jokic will coast the final month like last year, embiid stat padding and missing games is gone too

Luka from play-in or almost spot its not a rival

Tatum hasnt enough stats

the unique real competitor for Shai is Anteto who plays hard and want the #1 seed again

[Exp0sed]

No it wouldn't. If you're on the same tier of contribution as someone else but you miss 20+ games in a season, you can't be more valuable when you had 0 impact for those 20+ games.

There are no tough matchups for Embiid, Jokic, SGA, Luka, or any MVP candidate. Check their averages for proof. The stat padding notion is laughable. He sits 4th quarters vs those bad teams alot due to blowouts. He averages 35 per games, against anyone. Where is the stat padding? He accumulates stats, like the other candidates, because he's unstoppable. What are the tough matchups for Embiid, please do share.

Embiid has a long history now. It's clear his body isn't ideally suited for an 82 game grind. He has to sit sometimes. But yeah I don't think he will play 65 games either.

ofc there tough matchups (it's all relative)
do you think Embiid's stats (or any other superstar for that matter) are the same playing vs. the worst team in the league, at home when compared with his stats vs. a top 5 defensive team, away from home and on a back to back?

it's not just about the superstar btw, those parameters say rest, strength of opposition, home\away - affect the whole team
it's easier getting assists when guys are fresh and hitting shots, making timely cuts, moving off the ball etc

it's easier to rebound when there's better overall energy, players hustle more and box-out
it's easier to score when guys are fresh, playing better defense leading to more transition basketball, etc. you get the picture.

Embiid's per game numbers are inflated because of the matchups he chooses and him being allowed to rest in between, it's not an even playing field.

it's the same as looking at per 36 stats for a hustle guy playing 15 mins off the bench - if that player had to play 35 mins and not 15 - he wouldn't be able to go for 35 mins in the same gear he can go for 15

so even if his per game numbers were slightly higher than his competitors - i'd still give them the edge and wouldn't take his numbers at face value

just a reminder that those numbers magically drop in the playoffs, where he can't duck, rest or pick and choose his opponents, which is further proof for the padding and rest\pick and choose inflation

but yes, he's likely not making it to 65 games anyway so this discussion will probably be moot.
we'll see if he plays vs the Hawks, if he misses that one as well I think that's a hole too deep to climb out of, this early in the season

[Exp0sed]

SGA easy

Jokic will coast the final month like last year, embiid stat padding and missing games is gone too

Luka from play-in or almost spot its not a rival

Tatum hasnt enough stats

the unique real competitor for Shai is Anteto who plays hard and want the #1 seed again

I go back and forth between Jokic and SGA and I think you'll end up correct
in fact he's been coasting (to some extent) this whole season and indeed it's going to cost him the award eventually

I understand where he's coming from and after a championship it makes all the sense in the world.
if he was going harder he'd be the MVP but isn't and probably won't - it's SGA's to lose at this point

p.s, last season was a different story because the Nuggets have effectively guaranteed the 1st seed with plenty of games to spare
that likely won't be the case this season, so idk if we'll see a repetition of that last month, when he completely let up and they lost random games to the worst teams in the league

[Wolfgang630]

It’s not fair to the other candidates like Luka, SGA, Jokic, Giannis who are actually traveling on road trips, who are actually playing back to backs, who are barely missing games. These guys are not hurt and are playing. They can hurt their stats because they’re traveling, because they play back to backs and they still have good records.

[Mavrelous]

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[hardenASG13]

There are no tough matchups for Embiid, Jokic, SGA, Luka, or any MVP candidate. Check their averages for proof. The stat padding notion is laughable. He sits 4th quarters vs those bad teams alot due to blowouts. He averages 35 per games, against anyone. Where is the stat padding? He accumulates stats, like the other candidates, because he's unstoppable. What are the tough matchups for Embiid, please do share.

Embiid has a long history now. It's clear his body isn't ideally suited for an 82 game grind. He has to sit sometimes. But yeah I don't think he will play 65 games either.

ofc there tough matchups (it's all relative)
do you think Embiid's stats (or any other superstar for that matter) are the same playing vs. the worst team in the league, at home when compared with his stats vs. a top 5 defensive team, away from home and on a back to back?

it's not just about the superstar btw, those parameters say rest, strength of opposition, home\away - affect the whole team
it's easier getting assists when guys are fresh and hitting shots, making timely cuts, moving off the ball etc

it's easier to rebound when there's better overall energy, players hustle more and box-out
it's easier to score when guys are fresh, playing better defense leading to more transition basketball, etc. you get the picture.

Embiid's per game numbers are inflated because of the matchups he chooses and him being allowed to rest in between, it's not an even playing field.

it's the same as looking at per 36 stats for a hustle guy playing 15 mins off the bench - if that player had to play 35 mins and not 15 - he wouldn't be able to go for 35 mins in the same gear he can go for 15

so even if his per game numbers were slightly higher than his competitors - i'd still give them the edge and wouldn't take his numbers at face value

just a reminder that those numbers magically drop in the playoffs, where he can't duck, rest or pick and choose his opponents, which is further proof for the padding and rest\pick and choose inflation

but yes, he's likely not making it to 65 games anyway so this discussion will probably be moot.
we'll see if he plays vs the Hawks, if he misses that one as well I think that's a hole too deep to climb out of, this early in the season

I honestly don't know. Perhaps superstars take it easier vs. the bad teams, and post higher numbers vs better teams as their team's need them to and theres less likelihood of a blowout (like we just saw with Jokic vs Deteoit)? Not sure if this can be found out, but otherwise it's just the narrative this board is trying to run with this year with Embiid. You can call it rest in between, but recovering from injuries and soreness isnt exactly rest or beneficial to keeping a player in rhythm.He's averaged about 35ppg going back to last season. I just don't know what a tough matchup for him as an individual is.

The numbers do drop in the playoffs, after he gets hurt which is a problem for him. The very problem he is trying to avoid by resting during the regular season, as the regular season is kind of pointless as long as your team makes the playoffs which they are in position to easily do due to him. They stink without him.

[Wolfgang630]

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I just don’t think they like him much be it because he didn’t play for the team or politics

[Lakers In 5]

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I ain't too familiar with daily life in Serbia, is it perhaps something political, is it national team related? I know their elections very much reek of (pro Russian) corruption, but I also know Jokic didn't attend the world cup.

[Wolfgang630]

Yeah he sure as hell ain’t playing tomorrow. How many games missed will that be?

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[FinnTheHuman]

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I ain't too familiar with daily life in Serbia, is it perhaps something political, is it national team related? I know their elections very much reek of (pro Russian) corruption, but I also know Jokic didn't attend the world cup.

Nah, it's simple - most were voting led by the logic that the best basketball player who played for Serbian national team should be voted the best. Love Jokic, but imo he shouldn't have even been eligible for this award because he was healthy, but chose not to play for the NT this summer.

If there was national politics involved, Jokic wouldn't have issues there, because he put his name on the list of the prominent supporters of the ruling party in Serbia. A very corrupt, election-rigging, autocratic one, if I may add. Huge stain on him, but it's no surprise, as his uncle is a somewhat important party member, and his family in general has been amassing money with Jokic's millions and political connections they have because of his support to them.

[Sgt Major]

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I ain't too familiar with daily life in Serbia, is it perhaps something political, is it national team related? I know their elections very much reek of (pro Russian) corruption, but I also know Jokic didn't attend the world cup.

Our president and his party are heavily supported by the west as well.


This award was voted by the sports reporters and even though it sounds insane that Bogdan was placed above Jokić, he captained the national team and won silver medal at the World Cup, while fatso skipped on another tournament with the national team, so it's pretty clear why they didn't chose him.

[Exp0sed]

Yeah he sure as hell ain’t playing tomorrow. How many games missed will that be?

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I think he will play, the MVP is too important for him - it's his main motivation

they're playing 2morow night..he can not train today and still play 2morow and I suspect that he will

as for your question, the 76ers hav played 35 games and Embiid has missed 8 of those, if he misses 2morow it'd be 9/36 missed and it will be hard for him realistically to meet the minimum

I didn't check it but i'm would guess you wouldn't find any stretch of 46 games for his entire career where he played 38 out of 46 consecutive games, and that's what he would need to go the rest of the way if he misses the Hawks game.

that's just not going to happen...

[Wolfgang630]

Yeah he sure as hell ain’t playing tomorrow. How many games missed will that be?

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I think he will play, the MVP is too important for him - it's his main motivation

they're playing 2morow night..he can not train today and still play 2morow and I suspect that he will

as for your question, the 76ers hav played 35 games and Embiid has missed 8 of those, if he misses 2morow it'd be 9/36 missed and it will be hard for him realistically to meet the minimum

I didn't check it but i'm would guess you wouldn't find any stretch of 46 games for his entire career where he played 38 out of 46 consecutive games, and that's what he would need to go the rest of the way if he misses the Hawks game.

that's just not going to happen...

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[Exp0sed]

Yeah he sure as hell ain’t playing tomorrow. How many games missed will that be?

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it's crazy, this dude really stat padded himself out of the MVP race when he aggravated an injury trying to keep his "streak" alive

[FinnTheHuman]

No it wouldn't. If you're on the same tier of contribution as someone else but you miss 20+ games in a season, you can't be more valuable when you had 0 impact for those 20+ games.

this.
that's a laughable notion, MVP is the most valuable during the course of a season, not per game haha.

not that I think Joe L has been the best per game, there are superstars playing almost every game out there. showing up, even when they're tired, on a back to back, deflated or banged up

this clown ducks the tough game (intentionally!), picks and chooses his opponents and rests and stat pads vs. the Wizards\Pistons tier of teams, in blow outs even when he's injured cuz he wants to keep some worthless streak alive

well before the 65 minimum, games played were weighed heavily in MVP considerations with Walton being the only exception to the new rule anyway. Walton was head and shoulders better per game than his competitors, he was the best player throughout that season even tho he played fewer games

the irony is that Embiid is only causing himself to keep alive the one "streak" that actually matters - the streak of not winning rings and not even making out of the 2nd round, his blatant ducking and stat padding are costing the 76ers in playoff seedings.

if Embiid chose to rest vs. the weaker teams (and the 76ers are stacked and should win those games anyway), he'd have the stamine and health to play in the tougher games, the ones the 76ers really need him for

he really aggravated an injury while stat padding, and now instead of Philly being 2nd in the East (at the very least), they are 3rd with the pack behind them gaining on them

his stat padding might end up costing the 76ers HCA..

Just last game he played he came into the game injured and with Sixers down 30 points, only so that he would have a 30/10 game. So yeah, he's really trying his hardest to squeeze the juice.

I think that with Embiid's rest and injury history, it's becoming unrealstic for him to meet the criteria he's already missed too much.

I think at this point in the race it's a clear race between Jokic and SGA.
still alot of season to play and alot can happen, but as of the first week of 2024 imo it's those two neck to neck.
personally I have Jokic first but they're very close and I wouldn't fault anyone for picking SGA

There are no tough matchups for Embiid, Jokic, SGA, Luka, or any MVP candidate. Check their averages for proof. The stat padding notion is laughable. He sits 4th quarters vs those bad teams alot due to blowouts. He averages 35 per games, against anyone. Where is the stat padding? He accumulates stats, like the other candidates, because he's unstoppable. What are the tough matchups for Embiid, please do share.

Embiid has a long history now. It's clear his body isn't ideally suited for an 82 game grind. He has to sit sometimes. But yeah I don't think he will play 65 games either.

Dude went into the game 30 points down, injured, only to keep his 30/10 streak alive. He plays minutes that he shouldn't, he's in the game when the game is over, he's not always sitting when he's supposed to, he's mostly sitting when he's accumulated enough stats to be satisfied with the output. If you don't think he's looking for every little way to pad his stats, then you're lying to yourself, it's obvious from many of the situations over the season that he does this.

Meanwhile, Jokic is sitting the whole 4th quarters when he's 1 reb/ast away from a triple double, if the game is over.

[Wolfgang630]

The fact that joker is up there when he’s playing like he doesn’t give a **** about the mvp is hysterical

[Blaze4G]

I am surprised by the votes. I haven't been here in a while but right now imo its Embiid and its not close. I am now going to account for "if he plays enough games". As of right now he still qualifies.

I am no jokic hater either, my history will show I had jokic the pass 2 years for MVP and thought embiid crying made him win last year lol.

If I was to bet who wins, sure I don't think embiid will play enough games so I would give it to jokic or SGA. My preseason pick was Ant or SGA.

[Wolfgang630]

The Bucks have lost 4 of their last 5 games. Giannis has been good, but this stretch is hurting him.

[GiannisAnte34]

The Bucks have lost 4 of their last 5 games. Giannis has been good, but this stretch is hurting him.

in fairness, Griffin is the most idiotic regular season coach I've ever had the misfortune of enduring as a Bucks fan

that includes Kidd and Skiles LMAO