BREAKING NEWS: LeBron GOAT Scorer

[KembaWalker]

You can prove anything statistically if you start with the end result that you want, work backwards, and use a lot of filters

[Quattro]

Pro tip: If you want your statistical analysis to be taken seriously, don't name yourself "LebronnyGOAT"

Stats say LeBron is more of a resilient scorer, eye test shows you he’s a better offensive player all around and a better defender. t

[GoBobs]

Make all the excuses for LeBron you want to. The story of his career is he needed more help if you try to compare to Jordan.

MJ won 6 chips in an 8 season span that was utter domination. No one has done anything close to that in the NBA, MLB or NFL.

You can pretend Lebron was better than Jordan if you want, but he wasn't. Nothing is going to change that.

[art_tatum]

I'm convinced. Changing my vote from Jordan to Lebron right now. You got ONE

[ChiTownHero1992]

So you factor out unhealthy games for LeBron but not Jordan? Not buying any of it...watched both and my answer still stands pretty easily in fact...

[Lebronnygoat]

So you factor out unhealthy games for LeBron but not Jordan? Not buying any of it...watched both and my answer still stands pretty easily in fact...

What unhealthy games?? Which ones?? I also showed ALL their games, even MJ against UNHEALTHY Competition added up in the end as an overall tally and bron still wins

[maxpower8888]

OP, quick question, where are you getting these stats from? I would love to compare. Because when looking at their Points Per 100 stats, then dividing by 100, and then multiplying by 75, for those same years I get:

LeBron - 28.1
Jordan - 31.6

Now I know my way is far from perfect, I'm just taking an average of averages which is not the same as taking the total points and dividing it by the total possessions, but there shouldn't be that much of a discrepancy between what I'm doing and the proper way. Certainly not a 3.2 PP75 discrepancy.

[SonicMcMahon]

As many of you know I created a post detailing LeBron’s scoring resilience in his prime (2009-2018) vs Jordan (88-98, used 86) which picked up a lot of spark. The problem is, I somehow calculated MJ’s points wrong when I divided it by the amount of games (I must’ve had lower games than he actually played).
Instead of 34.1ppg it should’ve been less.

I found this out doing another project on Bron’s resilient scoring- (Per 75/IA, opp quality, to 110.0 ORTG) and rTS to opp quality. -3rDRTG only

09 vs Orlando- 37.3pp75 rts- +8.3 6 Games played
10 vs Boston- 25.9pp75 rts- +2.2 (Note: when healthy was 38.4 on +13.6rTS) 6 Games Played
11 vs Boston- 28.6pp75 rts- +3.7 5 Games played
11 vs Chicago- 26.4pp75 rts- +5 5 games played
12 vs New York- 33.4pp75 rts- +7.8 5 games played
12 vs Boston- 33.8pp75 rts- +8.9 7 games played
13 vs Indiana- 31.4pp75 rts- +11.4 7 games played
13 vs San Antonio- 25.9pp75 rts- +1.3 7 games played
14 vs Indiana- 30.1pp75 (Factoring out G5 due to foul trouble and playing 24 minutes)- 33.2pp75 +17.9
6 games played
14 vs San Antonio- 32.8pp75 rts- +16.0 5 games played
15 vs Golden State- 33.6pp75 rts- -3.7 6 games played
16 vs Atlanta- 27.7pp75 rts- +5.3 4 games played
17 vs Golden State- 30.7pp75 rts- +10.5 5 games played
18 vs Boston- 33.7pp75 rts- +7.8 7 games played

Overall 09-18
PP75- 31.3 rTS- +6.8
Adjusted 09-18 (factoring out G5 vs Indy and unhealthy Boston games in ‘10)
PP75- 32.1
rTS- +9.0

Jordan
86-98 (meant to be 88-98 but 86 is fair to include)
86 Boston -38.2 +7.5 3 Games played
89 Cavs- 40.4 +8.7 5 Games played
89 Det- 29.6 +4.7 6 Games played
90 Det- 31.6 +5.2 7 Games played
91 DET- 31.9 +13.1 4 Games played
92 Knicks- 33.0 +1.8 7 Games played
92 blazers- 34.7 +10.6 6 Games played
93 Knicks- 35.5 +1.8 6 Games played
96 Miami- 37 +8.3 3 Games played
96 Knicks- 36.1 +1.1 5 Games played
96 Sonics- 30.0 +1.4 6 Games played
97 Atlanta- 28.5 -.4 5 Games played
97 Miami- 33.6 -3.7 5 Games played
98 Indy- 35.5 +5.7 7 Games played

Overall 86-98
PP75- 31.3 (MJ’s is less if not rounded up) rTS- +4.4

Seriously if I somehow again divided the total points by amount of games wrong again please tell me but I am 99% sure 75 games were played for MJ lol.

Edit: it’s 33.6pp75 for MJ. Still the same rTS- of +4.4 though.

Some context I really don't understand. Why are we only using some playoff series and not others? For instance, why are we ignroring Brons Mavs series or Jordan's multiple Jazz series?

[Lebronnygoat]

As many of you know I created a post detailing LeBron’s scoring resilience in his prime (2009-2018) vs Jordan (88-98, used 86) which picked up a lot of spark. The problem is, I somehow calculated MJ’s points wrong when I divided it by the amount of games (I must’ve had lower games than he actually played).
Instead of 34.1ppg it should’ve been less.

I found this out doing another project on Bron’s resilient scoring- (Per 75/IA, opp quality, to 110.0 ORTG) and rTS to opp quality. -3rDRTG only

09 vs Orlando- 37.3pp75 rts- +8.3 6 Games played
10 vs Boston- 25.9pp75 rts- +2.2 (Note: when healthy was 38.4 on +13.6rTS) 6 Games Played
11 vs Boston- 28.6pp75 rts- +3.7 5 Games played
11 vs Chicago- 26.4pp75 rts- +5 5 games played
12 vs New York- 33.4pp75 rts- +7.8 5 games played
12 vs Boston- 33.8pp75 rts- +8.9 7 games played
13 vs Indiana- 31.4pp75 rts- +11.4 7 games played
13 vs San Antonio- 25.9pp75 rts- +1.3 7 games played
14 vs Indiana- 30.1pp75 (Factoring out G5 due to foul trouble and playing 24 minutes)- 33.2pp75 +17.9
6 games played
14 vs San Antonio- 32.8pp75 rts- +16.0 5 games played
15 vs Golden State- 33.6pp75 rts- -3.7 6 games played
16 vs Atlanta- 27.7pp75 rts- +5.3 4 games played
17 vs Golden State- 30.7pp75 rts- +10.5 5 games played
18 vs Boston- 33.7pp75 rts- +7.8 7 games played

Overall 09-18
PP75- 31.3 rTS- +6.8
Adjusted 09-18 (factoring out G5 vs Indy and unhealthy Boston games in ‘10)
PP75- 32.1
rTS- +9.0

Jordan
86-98 (meant to be 88-98 but 86 is fair to include)
86 Boston -38.2 +7.5 3 Games played
89 Cavs- 40.4 +8.7 5 Games played
89 Det- 29.6 +4.7 6 Games played
90 Det- 31.6 +5.2 7 Games played
91 DET- 31.9 +13.1 4 Games played
92 Knicks- 33.0 +1.8 7 Games played
92 blazers- 34.7 +10.6 6 Games played
93 Knicks- 35.5 +1.8 6 Games played
96 Miami- 37 +8.3 3 Games played
96 Knicks- 36.1 +1.1 5 Games played
96 Sonics- 30.0 +1.4 6 Games played
97 Atlanta- 28.5 -.4 5 Games played
97 Miami- 33.6 -3.7 5 Games played
98 Indy- 35.5 +5.7 7 Games played

Overall 86-98
PP75- 31.3 (MJ’s is less if not rounded up) rTS- +4.4

Seriously if I somehow again divided the total points by amount of games wrong again please tell me but I am 99% sure 75 games were played for MJ lol.

Edit: it’s 33.6pp75 for MJ. Still the same rTS- of +4.4 though.

Some context I really don't understand. Why are we only using some playoff series and not others? For instance, why are we ignroring Brons Mavs series or Jordan's multiple Jazz series?

The same way we’re ignoring Jordan’s Cavs series in 92/93, sixers series in 91 and Pistons series in 88. All drops. Same way I’m ignoring Bron’s 09 Hawks & Detroit, 10 Chicago, 13 Milwaukee, 14 Charlotte & New Jersey, 16 Toronto & 16 Golden State, 17 Indiana & Toronto & Boston & 18 Indiana & Toronto & Golden State (all rises) but the team don’t reach the -3rDRTG threshold. It’s pretty fair on the difficult defenses they faced if you want to look back at it.

[Lebronnygoat]

OP, quick question, where are you getting these stats from? I would love to compare. Because when looking at their Points Per 100 stats, then dividing by 100, and then multiplying by 75, for those same years I get:

LeBron - 28.1
Jordan - 31.6

Now I know my way is far from perfect, I'm just taking an average of averages which is not the same as taking the total points and dividing it by the total possessions, but there shouldn't be that much of a discrepancy between what I'm doing and the proper way. Certainly not a 3.2 PP75 discrepancy.

If you’re just doing raw per 75, it’s not accounting for the level of defenses played. Also I went on BBREF and it says 37.9 per 100 from 09-18 and if you times it by .75 it comes out to 28.425. What did you do?

[SonicMcMahon]

As many of you know I created a post detailing LeBron’s scoring resilience in his prime (2009-2018) vs Jordan (88-98, used 86) which picked up a lot of spark. The problem is, I somehow calculated MJ’s points wrong when I divided it by the amount of games (I must’ve had lower games than he actually played).
Instead of 34.1ppg it should’ve been less.

I found this out doing another project on Bron’s resilient scoring- (Per 75/IA, opp quality, to 110.0 ORTG) and rTS to opp quality. -3rDRTG only

09 vs Orlando- 37.3pp75 rts- +8.3 6 Games played
10 vs Boston- 25.9pp75 rts- +2.2 (Note: when healthy was 38.4 on +13.6rTS) 6 Games Played
11 vs Boston- 28.6pp75 rts- +3.7 5 Games played
11 vs Chicago- 26.4pp75 rts- +5 5 games played
12 vs New York- 33.4pp75 rts- +7.8 5 games played
12 vs Boston- 33.8pp75 rts- +8.9 7 games played
13 vs Indiana- 31.4pp75 rts- +11.4 7 games played
13 vs San Antonio- 25.9pp75 rts- +1.3 7 games played
14 vs Indiana- 30.1pp75 (Factoring out G5 due to foul trouble and playing 24 minutes)- 33.2pp75 +17.9
6 games played
14 vs San Antonio- 32.8pp75 rts- +16.0 5 games played
15 vs Golden State- 33.6pp75 rts- -3.7 6 games played
16 vs Atlanta- 27.7pp75 rts- +5.3 4 games played
17 vs Golden State- 30.7pp75 rts- +10.5 5 games played
18 vs Boston- 33.7pp75 rts- +7.8 7 games played

Overall 09-18
PP75- 31.3 rTS- +6.8
Adjusted 09-18 (factoring out G5 vs Indy and unhealthy Boston games in ‘10)
PP75- 32.1
rTS- +9.0

Jordan
86-98 (meant to be 88-98 but 86 is fair to include)
86 Boston -38.2 +7.5 3 Games played
89 Cavs- 40.4 +8.7 5 Games played
89 Det- 29.6 +4.7 6 Games played
90 Det- 31.6 +5.2 7 Games played
91 DET- 31.9 +13.1 4 Games played
92 Knicks- 33.0 +1.8 7 Games played
92 blazers- 34.7 +10.6 6 Games played
93 Knicks- 35.5 +1.8 6 Games played
96 Miami- 37 +8.3 3 Games played
96 Knicks- 36.1 +1.1 5 Games played
96 Sonics- 30.0 +1.4 6 Games played
97 Atlanta- 28.5 -.4 5 Games played
97 Miami- 33.6 -3.7 5 Games played
98 Indy- 35.5 +5.7 7 Games played

Overall 86-98
PP75- 31.3 (MJ’s is less if not rounded up) rTS- +4.4

Seriously if I somehow again divided the total points by amount of games wrong again please tell me but I am 99% sure 75 games were played for MJ lol.

Edit: it’s 33.6pp75 for MJ. Still the same rTS- of +4.4 though.

Some context I really don't understand. Why are we only using some playoff series and not others? For instance, why are we ignroring Brons Mavs series or Jordan's multiple Jazz series?

The same way we’re ignoring Jordan’s Cavs series in 92/93, sixers series in 91 and Pistons series in 88. All drops. Same way I’m ignoring Bron’s 09 Hawks & Detroit, 10 Chicago, 13 Milwaukee, 14 Charlotte & New Jersey, 16 Toronto & 16 Golden State, 17 Indiana & Toronto & Boston & 18 Indiana & Toronto & Golden State (all rises) but the team don’t reach the -3rDRTG threshold. It’s pretty fair on the difficult defenses they faced if you want to look back at it.

Okay, so just so I understand clearly, the -3rDRTG threshold is the criteria for playoff opponents that qualify in this study?

[Lebronnygoat]

Ya got it

[Swindle]

I appreciate all the data analysis and hard work you put into this, but how does this help me as a Heat fan? I had a 4 year subscription to Lebron Prime and the very first year it crashed in the finals. Overall it was a great 4 year experience, but am I entitled to any compensation? Maybe 1 free Dwyane Wade finals MVP that Lebron cost him since Wade was the best player on the floor? 17.8 ppg when it counts the most just seems really really bad for a GOAT scorer or was I expecting too much?

[Lebronnygoat]

I appreciate all the data analysis and hard work you put into this, but how does this help me as a Heat fan? I had a 4 year subscription to Lebron Prime and the very first year it crashed in the finals. Overall it was a great 4 year experience, but am I entitled to any compensation? Maybe 1 free Dwyane Wade finals MVP that Lebron cost him since Wade was the best player on the floor? 17.8 ppg when it counts the most just seems really really bad for a GOAT scorer or was I expecting too much?

Pre finals:
2013 spurs-
Parker 54.1% 23/4/7
Kawhi 62.7% 13/8/1
Ginobli 51.6% 12/5/6
Green 57.7% 10/4/2
Net Rating: +10.9
2013 Heat-
Wade 49.4% 14/5/5
Bosh 53.9% 12/7/1
Chalmers 53.1% 9/2/4
Ray Allen 55.5% 10/3/1
Net Rating: +11.0
2012 thunder-
Russ 50.8% 22/5/6
Harden 62.7% 18/5-3
Ibaka 58.4% 11/6/1
Fisher 50.8% 7/2/1
Net Rating: +7.9
2012 Heat-
Wade 52.9% 23/5/4
9 GP Bosh 60.7% 14/7/1 (played 9 games)
Chalmers 55.2% 12/4/4
Battier 45.6% 6/6/4
Net Rating: +7.3

Spoiler:

https://imgur.com/a/Js7ezuv

He shouldn’t have won back to back, rather overachieved due to circumstance, idk how you’re a Heat fan if you think like that. 2011 he owed y’all one more and got you guys two more Miami shouldn’t have won.

[shrink]

Breaking news! Click-hungry RealGM poster needs to learn the definition of “breaking news.”

[Swindle]

I appreciate all the data analysis and hard work you put into this, but how does this help me as a Heat fan? I had a 4 year subscription to Lebron Prime and the very first year it crashed in the finals. Overall it was a great 4 year experience, but am I entitled to any compensation? Maybe 1 free Dwyane Wade finals MVP that Lebron cost him since Wade was the best player on the floor? 17.8 ppg when it counts the most just seems really really bad for a GOAT scorer or was I expecting too much?

Pre finals:
2013 spurs-
Parker 54.1% 23/4/7
Kawhi 62.7% 13/8/1
Ginobli 51.6% 12/5/6
Green 57.7% 10/4/2
Net Rating: +10.9
2013 Heat-
Wade 49.4% 14/5/5
Bosh 53.9% 12/7/1
Chalmers 53.1% 9/2/4
Ray Allen 55.5% 10/3/1
Net Rating: +11.0
2012 thunder-
Russ 50.8% 22/5/6
Harden 62.7% 18/5-3
Ibaka 58.4% 11/6/1
Fisher 50.8% 7/2/1
Net Rating: +7.9
2012 Heat-
Wade 52.9% 23/5/4
9 GP Bosh 60.7% 14/7/1 (played 9 games)
Chalmers 55.2% 12/4/4
Battier 45.6% 6/6/4
Net Rating: +7.3

Spoiler:

https://imgur.com/a/Js7ezuv

He shouldn’t have won back to back, rather overachieved due to circumstance, idk how you’re a Heat fan if you think like that. 2011 he owed y’all one more and got you guys two more Miami shouldn’t have won.

I’m a huge fan of Lebron’s 2012 ECF 45 pt 15 reb 0 smiles game for sure but that’s not his norm. I can’t call him the scoring GOAT when the guy he gets compared to the most literally has more 40+ games than anyone ever not named Wilt and more 40+ games than games under 20 which is insane (Not even Wilt can claim that). Not as efficient as Lebron for sure, but more than efficient enough

[Gregoire]

O.M.G.

LeBron fanboys going berserk after his idol 17th loss in playoffs in 21 season. Sad.

You need to just accept, that MJ was better scorer, better offensive player, better player overall, had better peak, prime, had more rings, had less help, had better career (despite WORSE longevity - I give it to James). Its like Mario Lemieux vs Mark Messier in NHL or Messi vs Cristiano in soccer.

[Lebronnygoat]

Moral of the story, overall mj is going to exceed LeBron by 4-5pts, LeBron is going to exceed MJ by 2-3 efficiency points. Then when you look into resilience against top defenses, LeBron’s efficiency will exceed the pts gap. Scoring prime wise is honestly very close, and overall things you don’t see on the stat sheet goes to LeBron. This doesn’t even factor in LeBron’s 2020 year (which I actually put LeBron in another unfair position since I used a year outside of 88-98, 86, for MJ).
Knowing this, you add on 18+ elite years vs 11 elite years from Jordan, and pretty handily LeBron is your Goat, The Goat.

[NZB2323]

Moral of the story, overall mj is going to exceed LeBron by 4-5pts, LeBron is going to exceed MJ by 2-3 efficiency points. Then when you look into resilience against top defenses, LeBron’s efficiency will exceed the pts gap. Scoring prime wise is honestly very close, and overall things you don’t see on the stat sheet goes to LeBron. This doesn’t even factor in LeBron’s 2020 year (which I actually put LeBron in another unfair position since I used a year outside of 88-98, 86, for MJ).
Knowing this, you add on 18+ elite years vs 11 elite years from Jordan, and pretty handily LeBron is your Goat, The Goat.

A guy named Lebronny Goat who cherry-picked stats that don’t include the 2011 Finals for LeBron is saying he did a statistical analysis that proves LeBron is better…and expects people to take it seriously.

And I don’t know he you can say things you don’t see in the stat sheet goes to LeBron. Lebron tries to get all his teammates traded. Is that good for chemistry?

When Wade went back to Miami he was the fattest player on the team and Haslem asked him what happened to him and Wade got back into shape. Lebron wasn’t tough on Wade. Jordan could be tough in practice, but he would have pushed Wade to get into shape. He was hard on his teammates and held them accountable. He played against Pippen one on one after every practice.

[CD_41]

Moral of the story, overall mj is going to exceed LeBron by 4-5pts, LeBron is going to exceed MJ by 2-3 efficiency points. Then when you look into resilience against top defenses, LeBron’s efficiency will exceed the pts gap. Scoring prime wise is honestly very close, and overall things you don’t see on the stat sheet goes to LeBron. This doesn’t even factor in LeBron’s 2020 year (which I actually put LeBron in another unfair position since I used a year outside of 88-98, 86, for MJ).
Knowing this, you add on 18+ elite years vs 11 elite years from Jordan, and pretty handily LeBron is your Goat, The Goat.

A guy named Lebronny Goat who cherry-picked stats that don’t include the 2011 Finals for LeBron is saying he did a statistical analysis that proves LeBron is better…and expects people to take it seriously.

And I don’t know he you can say things you don’t see in the stat sheet goes to LeBron. Lebron tries to get all his teammates traded. Is that good for chemistry?

When Wade went back to Miami he was the fattest player on the team and Haslem asked him what happened to him and Wade got back into shape. Lebron wasn’t tough on Wade. Jordan could be tough in practice, but he would have pushed Wade to get into shape. He was hard on his teammates and held them accountable. He played against Pippen one on one after every practice.

100%.
People who show this blatant amount of homerism totally amaze me.
It is as if they believe that no one will see through their agenda.