2024-25 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

[wemby]

McCain has been the best In a landslide honestly. Just look at his #’s in 6 games as a starter.

35.5mpg 25.2ppg 5.0apg 2.3rpg 47/43/90 4.3-10.2 3pt

If his prime stats are anything like this he will be an all time great guard.

Cherry picking. Season so far: 16.5 pts 2.7 ast 2.4 reb on 44.9% fg and 37.4% 3p. Good for a rookie for sure, but when scoring efficiency is supposed to be his main selling point those numbers don't look crazy impressive.

[Mr Peanut]

Ron Holland has been hit and miss at times as one would expect from a 19 year old coming from G-League Ignite, but in a poor team showing at Memphis tonight he scored 14 points and was 2/2 from three. He has a long way to go but some promising signs.

[HotelVitale]

McCain has been the best In a landslide honestly. Just look at his #’s in 6 games as a starter.

35.5mpg 25.2ppg 5.0apg 2.3rpg 47/43/90 4.3-10.2 3pt

If his prime stats are anything like this he will be an all time great guard.

Cherry picking. Season so far: 16.5 pts 2.7 ast 2.4 reb on 44.9% fg and 37.4% 3p. Good for a rookie for sure, but when scoring efficiency is supposed to be his main selling point those numbers don't look crazy impressive.

This doesn't makes sense and is the wrong point here--McCain was buried on the bench for the first 7 games a year so he only played like 15mpg. Not sure how you'd expect him to post great volume in those minutes, and it's not some gotcha thing to point out that, when he got more minutes, he was able to produce correspondingly more volume and at the same efficiency. (I actually think his efficiency was better in those bench games too, just glancing quickly. Or at least the same).

Also scoring efficiency isn't his main selling point--the fact that he's been averaging 25ppg as a starter is the main surprise here.

The actual criticism/concern folks should be making is that he's had two bad games in a row and it looks possible that teams might be able to limit him with some more advanced scouting and scheming. Some of the bad #s were just him missing 3s he often makes (he was 2/18 from 3 in these past 2 games), but he also struggled to create the shots at the rim that have been a big part of his surprise break-out. His athletic and size limitations really do make high-volume half-court creation difficult and I wouldn't be surprised if defenses are able to close some of the small windows he's been finding.

[HotelVitale]

Cherry picking. Season so far: 16.5 pts 2.7 ast 2.4 reb on 44.9% fg and 37.4% 3p. Good for a rookie for sure, but when scoring efficiency is supposed to be his main selling point those numbers don't look crazy impressive.

Also just realized--is this the start of the annual insufferable rookie thread argument between two fanbases? This time Spurs-Sixers fans slitting each other's throats about Castle vs McCain for ROY. If so, I know it's probably pointless but can we ward that off as long as possible? ROY is a dumb and arbitrary award that has nothing to do with which player will be better long-term, and it really doens't help make your rookie better to post 3 times a week about why some other 20 year old from a different conference or whatever is a fraud. Not trying to soapbox but it really does happen every year and starts to talk up like 50% of the posts on these thread.

[wemby]

McCain has been the best In a landslide honestly. Just look at his #’s in 6 games as a starter.

35.5mpg 25.2ppg 5.0apg 2.3rpg 47/43/90 4.3-10.2 3pt

If his prime stats are anything like this he will be an all time great guard.

Cherry picking. Season so far: 16.5 pts 2.7 ast 2.4 reb on 44.9% fg and 37.4% 3p. Good for a rookie for sure, but when scoring efficiency is supposed to be his main selling point those numbers don't look crazy impressive.

This doesn't makes sense and is the wrong point here--McCain was buried on the bench for the first 7 games a year so he only played like 15mpg. Not sure how you'd expect him to post great volume in those minutes, and it's not some gotcha thing to point out that, when he got more minutes, he was able to produce correspondingly more volume and at the same efficiency. (I actually think his efficiency was better in those bench games too, just glancing quickly. Or at least the same).

Also scoring efficiency isn't his main selling point--the fact that he's been averaging 25ppg as a starter is the main surprise here.

The actual criticism/concern folks should be making is that he's had two bad games in a row and it looks possible that teams might be able to limit him with some more advanced scouting and scheming. Some of the bad #s were just him missing 3s he often makes (he was 2/18 from 3 in these past 2 games), but he also struggled to create the shots at the rim that have been a big part of his surprise break-out. His athletic and size limitations really do make high-volume half-court creation difficult and I wouldn't be surprised if defenses are able to close some of the small windows he's been finding.

Newsflash: that can be said of any rookie, which is the baseline you're comparing McCain's stats to. So you can't weed out his bad games any more than you can with any other rookie. One person can say his stats went up because he adjusted to the league, another can say his stats went down because the league adjusted to him. Which is why it's ridiculous to make wild statements like he'll be an "all time great guard" from the little we've seen. Seems like a good offensive player so far. As for the rest... time will tell.

[doogie_hauser]

Cherry picking. Season so far: 16.5 pts 2.7 ast 2.4 reb on 44.9% fg and 37.4% 3p. Good for a rookie for sure, but when scoring efficiency is supposed to be his main selling point those numbers don't look crazy impressive.

Also just realized--is this the start of the annual insufferable rookie thread argument between two fanbases? This time Spurs-Sixers fans slitting each other's throats about Castle vs McCain for ROY. If so, I know it's probably pointless but can we ward that off as long as possible? ROY is a dumb and arbitrary award that has nothing to do with which player will be better long-term, and it really doens't help make your rookie better to post 3 times a week about why some other 20 year old from a different conference or whatever is a fraud. Not trying to soapbox but it really does happen every year and starts to talk up like 50% of the posts on these thread.

To some degree I agree with you, but on the other hand, your team winning Rookie of the Year would be a pretty cool award for your team to win, esp if your team.is having a nightmare of a season like Philly has.

It's human nature for fans to root for their young studs and hope they do well/ be successful

I personally think McCain will win Rookie of the Year., yet I feel like Steph Castle will be the better/more well rounded player going forwards (a true two way stud)

Regardless this rookie class seems to have a lot more talent/upside than many experts and fans predicted, and that can only be a good thing

Zac Risacher is going to be an multiple all star talent one day too, make no mistake. He has all the tools and instincts to be an elite NBA player

[HotelVitale]

Cherry picking. Season so far: 16.5 pts 2.7 ast 2.4 reb on 44.9% fg and 37.4% 3p. Good for a rookie for sure, but when scoring efficiency is supposed to be his main selling point those numbers don't look crazy impressive.

Also just realized--is this the start of the annual insufferable rookie thread argument between two fanbases? This time Spurs-Sixers fans slitting each other's throats about Castle vs McCain for ROY. If so, I know it's probably pointless but can we ward that off as long as possible? ROY is a dumb and arbitrary award that has nothing to do with which player will be better long-term, and it really doens't help make your rookie better to post 3 times a week about why some other 20 year old from a different conference or whatever is a fraud. Not trying to soapbox but it really does happen every year and starts to talk up like 50% of the posts on these thread.

To some degree I agree with you, but on the other hand, your team winning Rookie of the Year would be a pretty cool award for your team to win, esp if your team.is having a nightmare of a season like Philly has.

It's human nature for fans to root for their young studs and hope they do well/ be successful

Definitely got nothing against that. Type of posts I'm talking about are when there's a couple perfectly interesting rookies who are playing well in some ways and also still have some question marks or interesting maybes about them, and the conversation on here becomes a dozen posts a day that are like 'no rookie with the exact FT%, oreb rate, and eye color as Castle has ever become a legit rotation player for a playoff team, sorry just facts you pathetic cope artist' or 'I could see an argument for Jared McCain if he wasn't a legit pedo, but my friend's cousin in the FBI said he's all over the Epstein list. I don't want to but I will document and report anyone supporting him, sorry just a matter of public safety.'

[God Squad]

This class has been pretty rough particularly at the top.

I voted for McCain and Castle.

[HotelVitale]

Cherry picking. Season so far: 16.5 pts 2.7 ast 2.4 reb on 44.9% fg and 37.4% 3p. Good for a rookie for sure, but when scoring efficiency is supposed to be his main selling point those numbers don't look crazy impressive.

This doesn't makes sense and is the wrong point here--McCain was buried on the bench for the first 7 games a year so he only played like 15mpg. Not sure how you'd expect him to post great volume in those minutes, and it's not some gotcha thing to point out that, when he got more minutes, he was able to produce correspondingly more volume and at the same efficiency. (I actually think his efficiency was better in those bench games too, just glancing quickly. Or at least the same).

Also scoring efficiency isn't his main selling point--the fact that he's been averaging 25ppg as a starter is the main surprise here.

The actual criticism/concern folks should be making is that he's had two bad games in a row and it looks possible that teams might be able to limit him with some more advanced scouting and scheming. Some of the bad #s were just him missing 3s he often makes (he was 2/18 from 3 in these past 2 games), but he also struggled to create the shots at the rim that have been a big part of his surprise break-out. His athletic and size limitations really do make high-volume half-court creation difficult and I wouldn't be surprised if defenses are able to close some of the small windows he's been finding.

Newsflash: that can be said of any rookie, which is the baseline you're comparing McCain's stats to. So you can't weed out his bad games any more than you can with any other rookie. One person can say his stats went up because he adjusted to the league, another can say his stats went down because the league adjusted to him. Which is why it's ridiculous to make wild statements like he'll be an "all time great guard" from the little we've seen. Seems like a good offensive player so far. As for the rest... time will tell.

Sounds like you're arguing with the other guys conclusion though (which you're right to do) and I was saying that trying to accuse him of stat chicanery is the wrong way to do that. Cherrypicking is when you're picking and choosing what to report on and having some convoluted way of reporting a stat that omits bad stuff and only highlights good evidence. The other guy was just quoting McCain's stats as a starter which 1) include the entirety of his most recent full half of the season (which is a pretty fair and non weird or selective thing to quote) and 2) are fully consistent with what he did before he was a starter (just with increased minutes).

I definitely agree with it being annoying and counterproductive to dub McCain an ATG guy after a nice first month, but McCain's raw numbers so far are indeed really good and you can't really mess with them or accuse them of being faked or exaggerated or whatever. However way you quote them they're nice. (Also it's not just compared to rookies--numbers-wise he's been a pretty top offensive player overall so far this season, including all the stars and greats in the league). If people want to be skeptical about McCain it's better to look at his significant limitations--and maybe his last couple games to illustrate that they might be catching up to him--instead of trying to poke holes in his stats so far.

[Jadoogar]

I agree with most that i think Castle is going to climb these rankings. McCain is firmly in the lead but he could cool off or his role will be diminished when (if?) the sixers get healthy.

[hsfolk]

Yves Missi looked pretty good tonight

[facothomas22]

Tristan De SIlva looked decent last night. Had 13 points and 2 steals in 21 minutes of action.

[facothomas22]

Far as the rookies that have impressed me so far, I have to say Jared McCain and Zach Edey. Both feel like guys that were drafted much later than they should've been. Edey has already showed the ability to shoot the 3pt ball, which is something I would never have expected out of him. He's obviously a major threat to score in the paint area and has great rebounding ability,but his being able to shot is going up other parts of his in way that a lot of us didn't see coming. Very likely a future all star if he can stay healthy. Far as Jared McCain, his scoring is coming very nicely. Like much better than expected. I wasn't that excited about the pick when it happened.His summer league stint looked rough.Looked a bit better in the pre season, but I would never expected him to be 20 and 5 right away. He's amazing shooter and feel he's going to 25/5 guy within the next 2 years or so.So far he's basically the only thing that has went right for the 76ers.

Jaylen Wells,Ryan Dunn,Yves Missi,Stephen Castle,Donovan Clingan,and Ryan Dunn have also impressed me as rookies.

[Dacost]

Question if the sixer finish with the worst record in the NBA can McCain still win .

[kane0801]

Question if the sixer finish with the worst record in the NBA can McCain still win .

McCain cool off in last few games

[PlatinumState]

Question if the sixer finish with the worst record in the NBA can McCain still win .

Not a question at all. The year Michael Carter Williams won roy Philly won 19 games which was second worst in the league. Wins dont matter for roy voting

[QMemphis]

I don't know if he had a shoutout in the first part of the thread, but Memphis' Jaylen Wells has been playing well (judging by his boxscores, I haven't seen MEM play this season). Seven games with 15+ points, second in rookies in PPG and shooting 40% from 3.

Even more impressive is Jaylen is the 3rd best defender in this class besides Clingan and Dunn. If he was given more shots I think he could do the Jared McCain thing if racking up numbers but Wells is contributing to winning basketball. Best 3&D in the draft, biggest steal of the draft and is only going to get better.

[Dan Z]

I don't know if he had a shoutout in the first part of the thread, but Memphis' Jaylen Wells has been playing well (judging by his boxscores, I haven't seen MEM play this season). Seven games with 15+ points, second in rookies in PPG and shooting 40% from 3.

Even more impressive is Jaylen is the 3rd best defender in this class besides Clingan and Dunn. If he was given more shots I think he could do the Jared McCain thing if racking up numbers but Wells is contributing to winning basketball. Best 3&D in the draft, biggest steal of the draft and is only going to get better.

Memphis seems to do well drafting in the second round (and late first).

[wemby]

I don't know if he had a shoutout in the first part of the thread, but Memphis' Jaylen Wells has been playing well (judging by his boxscores, I haven't seen MEM play this season). Seven games with 15+ points, second in rookies in PPG and shooting 40% from 3.

Even more impressive is Jaylen is the 3rd best defender in this class besides Clingan and Dunn. If he was given more shots I think he could do the Jared McCain thing if racking up numbers but Wells is contributing to winning basketball. Best 3&D in the draft, biggest steal of the draft and is only going to get better.

Third best defender in the class??? Dude, no he isn't. I get that he's a really good player for where he was picked, but that's just ridiculous, just like people who were saying GG Jackson was a top 5 player this year.

[QMemphis]

I don't know if he had a shoutout in the first part of the thread, but Memphis' Jaylen Wells has been playing well (judging by his boxscores, I haven't seen MEM play this season). Seven games with 15+ points, second in rookies in PPG and shooting 40% from 3.

Even more impressive is Jaylen is the 3rd best defender in this class besides Clingan and Dunn. If he was given more shots I think he could do the Jared McCain thing if racking up numbers but Wells is contributing to winning basketball. Best 3&D in the draft, biggest steal of the draft and is only going to get better.

Third best defender in the class??? Dude, no he isn't. I get that he's a really good player for where he was picked, but that's just ridiculous, just like people who were saying GG Jackson was a top 5 player this year.

He has guarded the best perimeter player on every team since starting and doing a great job at it.