NBA: Minor League

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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#41 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:50 pm

SNPA wrote:
xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:
SNPA wrote:For those unable to click links…

6 men’s / 6 women’s.

8 cities around the global. Two week intervals.

The list of investors is legit. These guys can do this if they really want. LeBron seems already in via Maverick Carter.

I’ll ask again, why would a superstar play in a salary capped league when there is a chance to play for multiples the money, in fewer games and with more global fame? I’ll await an answer.

Because the entire concept of the league is flawed. I can break down each one in more detail, but honestly, I don’t care enough to change your mind - so I’ll just give a few of the more obviously reasons as to why it won’t work.

Investors will only invest in things that make sense. You can have talks with investors, and saying things like “will rival the NBA” is the exact thing you’d want to say in a pitch, but ask “how?” and the entire argument would fall apart and the investors will back out. If you only have 6 teams, you’re not going to be playing a ton of games. If you’re not playing a ton of games, you’re not bringing in a ton of cash. If you’re not bringing in a ton of cash, you’re not going to be able to pay athletes more than their NBA contracts are worth, unless you find a billionaire who just actively wants to set money on fire for no reason. Even if you find that guy, you have to he’d be willing to do it with all the stars of the NBA, because if you only get one or two - no one is going to care. You have to pull the majority of the stars away from the NBA in a very short amount of time(because the league will be hemorrhaging money) or else the whole thing flops.

I get it. The NBA sucks and we all want better, but this entire concept is laughable.

If they want to start a basketball league, maybe they can get something to work. Trying to brand it as something that will rival the NBA is a joke though and any reasonably intelligent investor would back out the second they see how ridiculous the premise is.

Disagree.

American football doesn’t play many games, they seem to make plenty of money. Scarcity can drive up prices.

You also ignore the hook (the how), no salary cap or a cap way higher than the NBA. The pitch to investors is agents and players will go for the money. That’s a solid concept.

Say you’re Wemby and you aren’t even sure the league will make a second season…but they are offing you 250m for this season. The Spurs are offering 50m and will take you back in a second if you ever want to return.

American football has the best players in the world with no competition at all. To even try to compare that scenario to this one is like comparing apples to some fried cricket delecacy. They are not comparable scenarios at all.

Not to mention, thinking they'd pay Wemby 250M for one season is an absolute joke. Ronaldo has the richest per year contract in sports which is reported being around 200M. That is with the most popular sport in the world, which to go along with more global popularity(and Ronaldo arguably being the most popular athlete in the world), but they also fill stadiums significantly larger than basketball stadiums(at least the top clubs.) I mean, since you wanted to compare it to American Football, the salary cap in the NFL was 255M for the entire team...and those ratings are significantly better than the NBAs ratings.

But lets live in this fantasy world for a little bit, where some dumbass billionaire with too much money thinks it would be fun to give Wemby 250M a year....then what? Wemby isn't doing it by himself. No one is going to pay this league a higher TV deal than the NBA when all you get is Wemby. You'd have to lure all of the big stars over, which on your own estimate of how much they will pay players to do it, is unrealistic. Especially if they are TRYING to raise 5 billion, you've already given 250M to Wemby, haven't gotten anyone else yet, not to mention the cost of renting stadiums, finding teams, offices, branding, marketing, etc. 5 billion won't be near enough to compete with the NBA and steal all of its stars.....all this for players who play in a league that has been struggling with viewership more and more over the last decade. Would be a terrible investment for anyone.

I mean, from literally any angle you look at this, its silly to think its going to compete with the NBA.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#42 » by RRyder823 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:51 pm

SNPA wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
SNPA wrote:These guys are putting together 5 billion. To start six teams.

If you think players and *agents/agencies* won’t be interested in contracts well over 100m ok. I disagree. All they have to do is poach a few top players in the first couple seasons and this league takes off. James and thus Kutch is already involved.

Wemby can play for the Spurs for 50m or this league for 200m. It’s a real threat.


So the evaluation of a single NBA AND all 6 teams along with the league are startups.......... There's not going to be nearly the money available for payroll that you think



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Why?

Marketing. And then what?

Rent facilities. Easy.

Where’s the other huge costs? Insurance..and? It’s guys in uniforms playing basketball. High schools can do it.


Do you really need start up costs for a professional league broken down for you for you to actually understand that the vast majority of that 5 billion would not be going to player payroll? Seriously?

And you can't be dense enough to really compare start up cost for a professional sports league to High scool athletics can you?

Respect for the troll post but let's call a spade a spade. You're trolling

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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#43 » by SNPA » Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:56 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
SNPA wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
So the evaluation of a single NBA AND all 6 teams along with the league are startups.......... There's not going to be nearly the money available for payroll that you think



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Why?

Marketing. And then what?

Rent facilities. Easy.

Where’s the other huge costs? Insurance..and? It’s guys in uniforms playing basketball. High schools can do it.


Do you really need start up costs for a professional league broken down for you for you to actually understand that the vast majority of that 5 billion would not be going to player payroll? Seriously?

And you can't be dense enough to really compare start up cost for a professional sports league to High scool athletics can you?

Respect for the troll post but let's call a spade a spade. You're trolling

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lol. Yeah, that list of investors and James are trolling.

The league only works if you get the top guys, you only get the top guys by paying them top dollar. Of course that’s where the bulk of the money goes.

Do breakdown the costs for us. Musk paid 44 billion for Twitter. The idea there aren’t enough billionaires out there to do this is silly.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#44 » by hauntedcomputer » Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:58 pm

Some people need to read up on the history of the NBA and ABA.

The ABA severely damaged the NBA but in the long run really jolted the NBA out of the doldrums. Plenty of stars (Rick Barry, Billy Cunningham, Zelmo Beatty) jumped leagues and plenty of guys chose the ABA over the NBA for various reasons (the "hardship" rule allowing guys to sign early out of college was a big one, with Spencer Haywood, Dr. J, Moses Malone and George Gervin among others leaving college before the NBA would let them sign, and other guys like David Thompson choosing the money, as well as NBA-banned guys like Doug Moe, Roger Brown, and Connie Hawkins getting a chance).

Alcindor came close to signing with the ABA, which would've totally shifted the landscape (conflicting stories but generally Mikan held back the $1 million check that the ABA wanted to offer). The average NBA salary at the time was $20k, and Wilt and Russell were earning $100k. And eventually the NBA caved and merged, and adopted a lot of ABA stuff like faster pace, wide-open game, above-the-rim style, and the three-pointer, as well as the Slam Dunk contest.

And the ABA didn't even have television. With the plethora of media outlets and ways to consume media today, a challenger league has a real chance at a footprint. And maybe it would stop some of the whining by all those who despise the current NBA.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#45 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:05 pm

SNPA wrote: The idea there aren’t enough billionaires out there to do this is silly.

No one is arguing there aren’t enough billionaires to do this.

They are arguing there aren’t enough billionaires who are brain dead enough to believe this would be a wise investment.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#46 » by jayu70 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:12 pm

What times are these games going to be played in all these international cities? Will US fans adjust their viewing to watch these games? Which TV networks are going to carry these games?
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#47 » by reamily » Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:20 pm

I know which entity they can ask for Money... Its fiba..they are bent on competing with euroleague.. with singapore at helm they might be targetting intercontinental thing( that fibanintercontinental cup that coincidentally been histed by singapore the past two years) something that will dislodge the euroleague as the 2 best basketball league. Asia is the marjet for this business and not us..
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#48 » by RRyder823 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:29 pm

SNPA wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
SNPA wrote:Why?

Marketing. And then what?

Rent facilities. Easy.

Where’s the other huge costs? Insurance..and? It’s guys in uniforms playing basketball. High schools can do it.


Do you really need start up costs for a professional league broken down for you for you to actually understand that the vast majority of that 5 billion would not be going to player payroll? Seriously?

And you can't be dense enough to really compare start up cost for a professional sports league to High scool athletics can you?

Respect for the troll post but let's call a spade a spade. You're trolling

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lol. Yeah, that list of investors and James are trolling.

The league only works if you get the top guys, you only get the top guys by paying them top dollar. Of course that’s where the bulk of the money goes.

Do breakdown the costs for us. Musk paid 44 billion for Twitter. The idea there aren’t enough billionaires out there to do this is silly.


WTF are you talking about? WTF does Musk buying Twitter have to do with any part of the conversation?

You seem to be under the impression that the start up cost for a professional sports league is mostly going to be labor cost. There's no spreadsheet breakdown anyone can give you if you believe that that's gonna change your mind.

But go on saying "they could give Wemby 250 million for a year" and pretend like your either not trolling or completely naive to the actual costs that a startup league would entail or the revenue that would need to be generated (or even just "projected") to make any potential investors sign off on that

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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#49 » by Lalouie » Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:35 pm

does this mean lebron and bronny will be playing around the world and away from the usa? and lebron owning a team(or teams) a further distance from the nba?

this is a concept i can get behind
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#50 » by SNPA » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:36 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
SNPA wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
Do you really need start up costs for a professional league broken down for you for you to actually understand that the vast majority of that 5 billion would not be going to player payroll? Seriously?

And you can't be dense enough to really compare start up cost for a professional sports league to High scool athletics can you?

Respect for the troll post but let's call a spade a spade. You're trolling

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lol. Yeah, that list of investors and James are trolling.

The league only works if you get the top guys, you only get the top guys by paying them top dollar. Of course that’s where the bulk of the money goes.

Do breakdown the costs for us. Musk paid 44 billion for Twitter. The idea there aren’t enough billionaires out there to do this is silly.


WTF are you talking about? WTF does Musk buying Twitter have to do with any part of the conversation?

You seem to be under the impression that the start up cost for a professional sports league is mostly going to be labor cost. There's no spreadsheet breakdown anyone can give you if you believe that that's gonna change your mind.

But go on saying "they could give Wemby 250 million for a year" and pretend like your either not trolling or completely naive to the actual costs that a startup league would entail or the revenue that would need to be generated (or even just "projected") to make any potential investors sign off on that

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Show us. Do the math. Or stop harping on it.

Ya’ll not serious if you don’t think these guys are serious. There are names listed. You think those guys haven’t thought this through to get to this point? Maybe it works, maybe not. But it’s a real threat to the NBA model.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#51 » by cupcakesnake » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:44 pm

Wake me up when there's a league that's actually gathered any serious interest. We've seen dozens of minor leagues make a go out of it in North American and get absolutely nowhere. The ABA is the last successful one and that happened before the NBA was popular. That was more than 50 years ago.

Took the NBA 25 years to become popular. Took the WNBA around the same amount of time and we don't even know how sustainable their recent success is.

I could see a minor league with a ton of money, pouring that money into marketing and generating enough publicity stunts to stay in the news a bit... but sustaining that for decades and growing a legit fanbase? That's pretty tough. Get ready to lose money on your investment with no hope of return for multiple decades.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#52 » by DowJones » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:53 pm

SNPA wrote:These guys are putting together 5 billion. To start six teams.

If you think players and *agents/agencies* won’t be interested in contracts well over 100m ok. I disagree. All they have to do is poach a few top players in the first couple seasons and this league takes off. James and thus Kutch is already involved.

Wemby can play for the Spurs for 50m or this league for 200m. It’s a real threat.


I am a fan of the NBA. I can’t see myself getting invested in some international super league that means nothing to me.

If a bunch of billionaires want to create a second basketball league, great, but the NBA will remain and that is what I will watch as an American. Miss me with the 1 PM tip off in Madrid between a pair of super teams that mean absolutely nothing to me.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#53 » by SNPA » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:54 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:Wake me up when there's a league that's actually gathered any serious interest. We've seen dozens of minor leagues make a go out of it in North American and get absolutely nowhere. The ABA is the last successful one and that happened before the NBA was popular. That was more than 50 years ago.

Took the NBA 25 years to become popular. Took the WNBA around the same amount of time and we don't even know how sustainable their recent success is.

I could see a minor league with a ton of money, pouring that money into marketing and generating enough publicity stunts to stay in the news a bit... but sustaining that for decades and growing a legit fanbase? That's pretty tough. Get ready to lose money on your investment with no hope of return for multiple decades.

Doesn’t read like a minor league. It reads like they want to start a super league. Big difference. But ya’know there lots of posters here who think players and agents won’t be interested in their uncapped money. :lol:
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#54 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:56 pm

SNPA wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
SNPA wrote:lol. Yeah, that list of investors and James are trolling.

The league only works if you get the top guys, you only get the top guys by paying them top dollar. Of course that’s where the bulk of the money goes.

Do breakdown the costs for us. Musk paid 44 billion for Twitter. The idea there aren’t enough billionaires out there to do this is silly.


WTF are you talking about? WTF does Musk buying Twitter have to do with any part of the conversation?

You seem to be under the impression that the start up cost for a professional sports league is mostly going to be labor cost. There's no spreadsheet breakdown anyone can give you if you believe that that's gonna change your mind.

But go on saying "they could give Wemby 250 million for a year" and pretend like your either not trolling or completely naive to the actual costs that a startup league would entail or the revenue that would need to be generated (or even just "projected") to make any potential investors sign off on that

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Show us. Do the math. Or stop harping on it.

Ya’ll not serious if you don’t think these guys are serious. There are names listed. You think those guys haven’t thought this through to get to this point? Maybe it works, maybe not. But it’s a real threat to the NBA model.

You do the math.

You’re the one claiming this league is going to pay everyone record breaking money for all of sports when as of now they are still trying to convince people to invest in a concept.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#55 » by SNPA » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:57 pm

DowJones wrote:
SNPA wrote:These guys are putting together 5 billion. To start six teams.

If you think players and *agents/agencies* won’t be interested in contracts well over 100m ok. I disagree. All they have to do is poach a few top players in the first couple seasons and this league takes off. James and thus Kutch is already involved.

Wemby can play for the Spurs for 50m or this league for 200m. It’s a real threat.


I am a fan of the NBA. I can’t see myself getting invested in some international super league that means nothing to me.

If a bunch of billionaires want to create a second basketball league, great, but the NBA will remain and that is what I will watch as an American. Miss me with the 1 PM tip off in Madrid between a pair of super teams that mean absolutely nothing to me.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe there’s enough global demand to make the American market not the primary driver, but one of several major regional markets. That would be the bet they would be making. The NBA seems to think there is a global market for basketball.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#56 » by SNPA » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:58 pm

xxSnEaKyPxx wrote:
SNPA wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
WTF are you talking about? WTF does Musk buying Twitter have to do with any part of the conversation?

You seem to be under the impression that the start up cost for a professional sports league is mostly going to be labor cost. There's no spreadsheet breakdown anyone can give you if you believe that that's gonna change your mind.

But go on saying "they could give Wemby 250 million for a year" and pretend like your either not trolling or completely naive to the actual costs that a startup league would entail or the revenue that would need to be generated (or even just "projected") to make any potential investors sign off on that

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Show us. Do the math. Or stop harping on it.

Ya’ll not serious if you don’t think these guys are serious. There are names listed. You think those guys haven’t thought this through to get to this point? Maybe it works, maybe not. But it’s a real threat to the NBA model.

You do the math.

You’re the one claiming this league is going to pay everyone record breaking money for all of sports when as of now they are still trying to convince people to invest in a concept.

I’m using the math listed. Five billion. It has major investors names listed. You are the one claiming it’s not enough. Maybe you know more about it than those guys. Show us.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#57 » by cupcakesnake » Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:59 pm

SNPA wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:Wake me up when there's a league that's actually gathered any serious interest. We've seen dozens of minor leagues make a go out of it in North American and get absolutely nowhere. The ABA is the last successful one and that happened before the NBA was popular. That was more than 50 years ago.

Took the NBA 25 years to become popular. Took the WNBA around the same amount of time and we don't even know how sustainable their recent success is.

I could see a minor league with a ton of money, pouring that money into marketing and generating enough publicity stunts to stay in the news a bit... but sustaining that for decades and growing a legit fanbase? That's pretty tough. Get ready to lose money on your investment with no hope of return for multiple decades.

Doesn’t read like a minor league. It reads like they want to start a super league. Big difference. But ya’know there lots of posters here who think players and agents won’t be interested in their uncapped money. :lol:


Money is one part of the puzzle. There's a scenario where they lure some stars (though I think it's more likely they replace China as a landing place for big name washups) by throwing money at them... but how does that work as a long term strategy. The money is the investment, but eventually you want to see a return. You can't just outspend the NBA over a short term and expect to become competitive. Building brand recognition and a real fan base takes so much time. You can't just throw a few billion in a microwave and expect success for something like a basketball league.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#58 » by SkyBill40 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:03 pm

SNPA wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:Wake me up when there's a league that's actually gathered any serious interest. We've seen dozens of minor leagues make a go out of it in North American and get absolutely nowhere. The ABA is the last successful one and that happened before the NBA was popular. That was more than 50 years ago.

Took the NBA 25 years to become popular. Took the WNBA around the same amount of time and we don't even know how sustainable their recent success is.

I could see a minor league with a ton of money, pouring that money into marketing and generating enough publicity stunts to stay in the news a bit... but sustaining that for decades and growing a legit fanbase? That's pretty tough. Get ready to lose money on your investment with no hope of return for multiple decades.

Doesn’t read like a minor league. It reads like they want to start a super league. Big difference. But ya’know there lots of posters here who think players and agents won’t be interested in their uncapped money. :lol:


Suffice it to say, money isn't everything. People have families and perhaps some don't want to relocate their nest to a foreign country. Maybe there's other implications that that level of money won't cover, such as security or what have you.

You might get some players go and check it out, but I don't know that you're going to get the absolutely biggest names at the height of their career. The NBA has a reputation of being the best league in the world for the sport and it's where players aspire to be to prove themselves on that level of competition. That's not to say that this league couldn't get there at some point, it's just pretty unlikely to be able to compete directly no matter who is involved.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#59 » by SNPA » Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:03 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:
SNPA wrote:
cupcakesnake wrote:Wake me up when there's a league that's actually gathered any serious interest. We've seen dozens of minor leagues make a go out of it in North American and get absolutely nowhere. The ABA is the last successful one and that happened before the NBA was popular. That was more than 50 years ago.

Took the NBA 25 years to become popular. Took the WNBA around the same amount of time and we don't even know how sustainable their recent success is.

I could see a minor league with a ton of money, pouring that money into marketing and generating enough publicity stunts to stay in the news a bit... but sustaining that for decades and growing a legit fanbase? That's pretty tough. Get ready to lose money on your investment with no hope of return for multiple decades.

Doesn’t read like a minor league. It reads like they want to start a super league. Big difference. But ya’know there lots of posters here who think players and agents won’t be interested in their uncapped money. :lol:


Money is one part of the puzzle. There's a scenario where they lure some stars (though I think it's more likely they replace China as a landing place for big name washups) by throwing money at them... but how does that work as a long term strategy. The money is the investment, but eventually you want to see a return. You can't just outspend the NBA over a short term and expect to become competitive. Building brand recognition and a real fan base takes so much time. You can't just throw a few billion in a microwave and expect success for something like a basketball league.

This could be correct. Or, via social media etc, the landscape is different now. I’m sure this is all part of their calculations.

The fact Maverick Carter, aka James, is already listed as the front man (it seems) is an interesting element. That’s a risk for James if he ever wants to buy an NBA team.
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Re: NBA: Minor League 

Post#60 » by DowJones » Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:05 pm

SNPA wrote:
DowJones wrote:
SNPA wrote:These guys are putting together 5 billion. To start six teams.

If you think players and *agents/agencies* won’t be interested in contracts well over 100m ok. I disagree. All they have to do is poach a few top players in the first couple seasons and this league takes off. James and thus Kutch is already involved.

Wemby can play for the Spurs for 50m or this league for 200m. It’s a real threat.


I am a fan of the NBA. I can’t see myself getting invested in some international super league that means nothing to me.

If a bunch of billionaires want to create a second basketball league, great, but the NBA will remain and that is what I will watch as an American. Miss me with the 1 PM tip off in Madrid between a pair of super teams that mean absolutely nothing to me.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe there’s enough global demand to make the American market not the primary driver, but one of several major regional markets. That would be the bet they would be making. The NBA seems to think there is a global market for basketball.


Professional leagues are not popular around the world because people want to see the “artistry“ of the athletes. People care about their hometown teams. Will this super league be able to generate the same feeling in New York that the Knicks do? Will people in Los Angeles care more about their super league team or the Lakers? That is the real question. New York versus Philadelphia just hits differently than New York versus Moscow.

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