Has There Ever Been A Less Worthy Jersey Retirement Than Vince Carter for the Nets?

[meekrab]

Why Are People Writing Like This? It Makes Absolutely No Sense And Hurts The Eyes

It's traditional to capitalize each significant word in the title of a written work.

Whether the OP of a message board thread qualifies as such is up to interpretation but it's certainly not absurd.

[JustBuzzin]

I don't think youngsters remember how popular Vince Carter was back in the day. He was my favorite player growing up. Dude led players in all-star votes in a league with guys like Shaq/Kobe/Iverson/Tmac.

It's more about the name. VC is a name people remember because he's arguably the greatest dunked of all-time. Having his name in the rafters means something for a team with such little history.

I don't see a big deal.

[danvato]

This is a stupid OP.

I loved Vince as a Net and he's had tons of highlights during that stretch.

The worst part is framing 4.5 years out of 22. So you'd be fine with it if he stopped playing in his 10th year? You're faulting him for the longevity and 10+ seasons he had as a vet on various teams. He is knows as a Raptor and as a Net.

He also has his most playoff games as a Net. and winning RANGZ is not a requirement for getting your jersey retired. That VC Nets teams lost twice to the Wade/Shaq Heat including the year the Heat won the title, and they lost to young Lebron Cavs the year they went to the finals. Sometimes there are better teams in your way, doesn't diminish your own accomplishments.

[Scalabrine]

Why Are People Writing Like This? It Makes Absolutely No Sense And Hurts The Eyes

If you're talking about the way that I wrote the title, then thats because that is correct grammar. At least here in the USA.

https://kindlepreneur.com/title-capitalization/

[Scalabrine]

I don't think youngsters remember how popular Vince Carter was back in the day. He was my favorite player growing up. Dude led players in all-star votes in a league with guys like Shaq/Kobe/Iverson/Tmac.

It's more about the name. VC is a name people remember because he's arguably the greatest dunked of all-time. Having his name in the rafters means something for a team with such little history.

I don't see a big deal.

I'm making a thread about it, but you're right, it's not that big of a deal. Ultimately, if the Nets want to retire anyones number they can. Just like the Heat retired MJ's.

The purpose of the thread was to figure out if thats the lowest bar a team has set for a player or what is lower.

BTW, I'm 35 and remember watching Vince when he was playing at UNC. I still have a Vince Carter giant "headliner" toy in it's box somewhere in my moms attic. I still think it's a strange retirement but the Nets can do what they want.

[Not2BeBothered]

Heat retiring MJ's number. He played zero minutes in zero years for them.

If the entire league had did it, it would have made sense. MJ jersey in the NBA should be like Gretzky’s in the NHL

[HornetJail]

The real answer might be the lone Charlotte Hornet to get his jersey retired. Nope, it isn't Kemba, Dell, Muggsy, LJ... it's Bobby Phills

The situation was tragic, he was killed while street racing David Wesley, but I'm not sure I understand us re-retiring his #13 jersey in 2014 when we got the Hornets team name back.

[Scalabrine]

This is a stupid OP.

I loved Vince as a Net and he's had tons of highlights during that stretch.

The worst part is framing 4.5 years out of 22. So you'd be fine with it if he stopped playing in his 10th year? You're faulting him for the longevity and 10+ seasons he had as a vet on various teams. He is knows as a Raptor and as a Net.

He also has his most playoff games as a Net. and winning RANGZ is not a requirement for getting your jersey retired. That VC Nets teams lost twice to the Wade/Shaq Heat including the year the Heat won the title, and they lost to young Lebron Cavs the year they went to the finals. Sometimes there are better teams in your way, doesn't diminish your own accomplishments.

Let's not frame it like the VC Nets were a good team that just had some juggernauts in the way. The VC Nets were not a good team. They rode the last wave of the Jason Kidd contender contender era, and then flamed out as a 34 win team in back to back seasons where they missed the playoffs.

I framed it that way because you have guys, like Nick Collison, who got the jersey retired because they spent their entire (or vast majority) of their career in one spot and became one of the faces of the team. Collison played all 14 years with the same franchise. He didn't put up insane numbers. But you can rationalize why he they wanted to retire his number. Thats why I mentioned that he only played 4.5 of his 22 years there. There was no hidden agenda. That was the reason.

I disagree that he's known as a Net. He's known as a Raptor. His most iconic part of his career was as a Raptor. I grew up in the NY/NJ area and his tenure with the Nets was short and forgettable.

[Ssj16]

Wow. Yea i was gonna say that as a Bulls fan, I'm not a big fan of the D Rose jersey retirement (I'm sure I'm in the minority here but as a rule of thumb I feel like there should be a 1 championship minimum for jersey retirings, or maybe like a decade of superstar play like KG in Minnesota if no championship). Rose really only had 1 great season and a few very good seasons. Not enough to warrant a jersey retirement IMO

But he's more worthy than Vince in Toronto that's for damn sure. Rose got at least an ECF appearance and was derailed by legit injuries. Not fake injuries like Vince that magically healed when he got to New Jersey. Vince forced his way out while Rose cried his eyes out when he got the call that he had been traded.

Vince saved the Raptors from leaving Toronto.

Toronto always had great attendance. Before and after Vince. Raptors were never in danger of leaving Toronto.

There is a world where we don't get a VC and we are just a lackluster franchise for our first 6-7 years and basketball doesn't gain traffic in the hockey/baseball town and we end up being the OKC Raptors just like the Grizzlies.

I think you're underselling VC's impact to the Raps.

[hisairness]

Pretty pathetic. Seems like they just did it to be petty towards the Raptors and of course the soft Raptors caved and immediately retired his jersey as well even though he sulked his way out of the city by refusing to dunk, telling the other team the Raptors plays and basically sabotaging them until he was traded.

He literally dunked in the next game after he said it, it was his annoyed answer to a stupid question, Vince said later he wasn't serious. Neither his teammates nor opponents ever confirmed he gave a play away. Him and Sam Mitchell butted heads from the moment Mitchell was hired, Vince's effort was definitely lacking that year but it had a lot to do with Mitchell trying to implement a "team" concept that kept the ball away from Vince. Some of it was deserved but Toronto media had it our for Vince in that last year and were putting lots of BS stories like the ones in your post.

[Frank Dux]

Phoenix/Cavs better get that Shaq jersey in the rafters asap.

You mean Celtics legend Shaq?

[LascelleL]

Vince saved the Raptors from leaving Toronto.

Toronto always had great attendance. Before and after Vince. Raptors were never in danger of leaving Toronto.

There is a world where we don't get a VC and we are just a lackluster franchise for our first 6-7 years and basketball doesn't gain traffic in the hockey/baseball town and we end up being the OKC Raptors just like the Grizzlies.

I think you're underselling VC's impact to the Raps.

Thank you. It was crazy seeing the Grizzlies leave town in real time.

[WillyJakkz]

TMac making the HOF (and as a Magic fan LOVED him) and Michael Jordan Heat jersey retirement clearing their throats while reading this post

[Tacoma]

Vince saved the Raptors from leaving Toronto.

Toronto always had great attendance. Before and after Vince. Raptors were never in danger of leaving Toronto.

There is a world where we don't get a VC and we are just a lackluster franchise for our first 6-7 years and basketball doesn't gain traffic in the hockey/baseball town and we end up being the OKC Raptors just like the Grizzlies.

I think you're underselling VC's impact to the Raps.

Hard disagree that Raptors would've left Toronto if not for Vince. In the pre-Vince years attendance averaged around a healthy 19K per game; in their lowest attendance year (when Isiah Thomas resigned as President and Damon Stoudamire demanded a trade), they still averaged 80% of peak attendance. They were in no financial danger whatsoever.

Toronto actually drafted Antawn Jamison in 1998 and then traded him for Vince. Tracy McGrady said he left TOR because he didn't want to be in Vince's shadow. So in the hypothetical world where the Raptors didn't get Vince, TMac likely would've stayed and paired with Jamison (or whomever they draft in 1998). That would've been a very good team.

There's no reasonable scenario I can see where the Raptors would've ever left Toronto.

[Kingdibs19]

Toronto always had great attendance. Before and after Vince. Raptors were never in danger of leaving Toronto.

There is a world where we don't get a VC and we are just a lackluster franchise for our first 6-7 years and basketball doesn't gain traffic in the hockey/baseball town and we end up being the OKC Raptors just like the Grizzlies.

I think you're underselling VC's impact to the Raps.

Hard disagree that Raptors would've left Toronto if not for Vince. In the pre-Vince years attendance averaged around a healthy 19K per game; in their lowest attendance year (when Isiah Thomas resigned as President and Damon Stoudamire demanded a trade), they still averaged 80% of peak attendance. They were in no financial danger whatsoever.

Toronto actually drafted Antawn Jamison in 1998 and then traded him for Vince. Tracy McGrady said he left TOR because he didn't want to be in Vince's shadow. So in the hypothetical world where the Raptors didn't get Vince, TMac likely would've stayed and paired with Jamison (or whomever they draft in 1998). That would've been a very good team.

There's no reasonable scenario I can see where the Raptors would've ever left Toronto.

lol these guys don’t know what they’re talking about. Even when the Raps sucked they still had great attendance. Just because Canadian cities like Vancouver (nba) and Montreal (MLB) and Winnipeg (NHL) lose sports does not mean Toronto ever would. It’s the 4th biggest city in North America and a huge sports city. It does not lose teams. VC saving Toronto from losing the Raptors a BS narrative.

[Kingdibs19]

Pretty pathetic. Seems like they just did it to be petty towards the Raptors and of course the soft Raptors caved and immediately retired his jersey as well even though he sulked his way out of the city by refusing to dunk, telling the other team the Raptors plays and basically sabotaging them until he was traded.

He literally dunked in the next game after he said it, it was his annoyed answer to a stupid question, Vince said later he wasn't serious. Neither his teammates nor opponents ever confirmed he gave a play away. Him and Sam Mitchell butted heads from the moment Mitchell was hired, Vince's effort was definitely lacking that year but it had a lot to do with Mitchell trying to implement a "team" concept that kept the ball away from Vince. Some of it was deserved but Toronto media had it our for Vince in that last year and were putting lots of BS stories like the ones in your post.

It’s pretty obvious from Ray Allen and Reggie Evans comments that it happened but keep rewriting history to fit your narrative https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/ray-allen-on-vince-carter-tipping-off-sonics-about-raptors-late-game-play

[ChumboChappati]

Wow. Yea i was gonna say that as a Bulls fan, I'm not a big fan of the D Rose jersey retirement (I'm sure I'm in the minority here but as a rule of thumb I feel like there should be a 1 championship minimum for jersey retirings, or maybe like a decade of superstar play like KG in Minnesota if no championship). Rose really only had 1 great season and a few very good seasons. Not enough to warrant a jersey retirement IMO

But he's more worthy than Vince in Toronto that's for damn sure. Rose got at least an ECF appearance and was derailed by legit injuries. Not fake injuries like Vince that magically healed when he got to New Jersey. Vince forced his way out while Rose cried his eyes out when he got the call that he had been traded.

Vince saved the Raptors from leaving Toronto.

Toronto always had great attendance. Before and after Vince. Raptors were never in danger of leaving Toronto.

Another stupid post. Any team outside of the USA is always in danger. Remember the Vancouver Grizzlies? Toronto Raptors would have faced the same fate, had they not gotten lucky with Vince Carter. Then they got super lucky with Kawhi and won a chip. But still, they will remain in danger unless Canada becomes part of the USA.

[Kingdibs19]

Vince saved the Raptors from leaving Toronto.

Toronto always had great attendance. Before and after Vince. Raptors were never in danger of leaving Toronto.

Another stupid post. Any team outside of the USA is always in danger. Remember the Vancouver Grizzlies? Toronto Raptors would have faced the same fate, had they not gotten lucky with Vince Carter. Then they got super lucky with Kawhi and won a chip. But still, they will remain in danger unless Canada becomes part of the USA.

Another regarded post. Do you remember Toronto ever losing a sports team? No? Yah cause it would never happen. And no just because another Canadian city lost a team doesn’t mean Toronto would. Vancouver is the size of Seattle, Toronto is the size of Chicago. They’re not the same. Toronto is in 0 danger of losing the Raptors. You live in a fantasyland.

[JujitsuFlip]

Heat retiring MJ's number. He played zero minutes in zero years for them.

Even more odd than that is #13 is "retired" for Dan Marino, the NFL player. Even though Bam wears it.

[The Master]

Carter may be the most overrated player ever at this point for his dunks. I mean, he was pretty good as a player, don't get me wrong, but resume wise? He has become an icon of the contemporary NBA, has two jerseys retired at this point, while

- he requested a trade in pretty bad fashion from Raptors after 6 seasons (2x All-NBA team, 1 playoff series won). He was putting 16ppg on 48TS% until he was traded to the Nets to average 28ppg on 56TS% then;
- two playoff series won with Nets, no All-NBA teams here

8x All-Star, 2x All-NBA team - it would be hard to find another player regarded with such high esteem and completely lacking any spectacular resume.

LaMarcus Aldridge has 5x All-NBA Team and 7x ASG appearances. Not saying Aldridge was a better player, but just for perspective what type of resume we're talking about. Dame Lillard has 7x All-NBA and 8x ASG as a guard.