I'm done with Masai

[DelAbbot]

]

Masai has had a great season - team is in the thick of the Flagg race yet has lots of young talent.

Who is this young talent? Like are any ever going to be a top 10 player? Not close. I really think the Raptors have some of the worst young players in the league, and most aren’t even that young anymore.

I recall when Cleveland and Toronto were bad and drafted Mobley and Barnes. I thought to myself Toronto is sitting on multiple guys who would fetch like 2 or 3 firsts. I wish we had that type of arsenal as a Cavs fan. Instead you started trading picks for scrubs and held onto guys way too long. It’s amazing how the Raptors parlayed having a good rookie and bunch of guys with serious value into absolute trash and very few assets. You don’t have a player I’d want outside Barnes, and even he I wouldn’t go crazy to get. He’s a piece if surrounded by better players. Instead he’s the best player on a bad team and that’s amazing mismanagement.

This summed it up perfectly. And it's by an outsider

[Tripod]

[tweet][/tweet]

He did. But every championship requires luck to a degree

He had built a 50 win team for 7 straight years prior to that. That isn't really luck.

I thought Toronto only had a total of 5 seasons of 50 or more wins? Beyond that, while I agree 50 win teams don't grow on trees, there's also the argument that outside of lucking into the Kawhi trade, he successfully built a treadmill team.

Yeah 48 and 49 before the 5 year 50 win streak so I just said 7 for brevity.

Masai has a .581 winning% for his career. That's a 48-34 average record. Imaging getting **** on fir that average...lol.

For reference, that's what the Cavs record was last year while 4th in the conference. Yet somehow its deemed a fluke, treadmilling, etc...

Reality is in 15 years of being an Exec., he has only had 3 years of being under .500. But they have all been in the last 5 years so some think that's what he is now(1 was Tampa so shouldn't count anyways).

People have short memories. He will build the Raps up again.

[DelAbbot]

This seems like a "let me do a desperate attempt to save my job" trade

The move definitely is a desperate attempt at saving his job (1 year left on contract). Although Masai didn't overpay for BI, he did ignore the cap consequences of adding a $40M+ AAV often injured player. The cap issues will show up as soon as next season, when Scottie Barnes max kicks in. If MLSE allows this team to go into the tax then they better deliver playoffs, despite having a bunch of 1-way starters who may not fit together

[Quattro]

And here for the gens boards enjoyment is what the raptors forum looks like every day. The whiny kids stamping their feet that the team should trade everyone so they can win 10 games every year for a 14% shot at the first overall pick. They took a break while the team won a championship but they're back in full force now.

If you are truly done with Masai, then I encourage you to stop watching the team and do something productive with your life.

Like I've been saying since the Rogers takeover happens, in a couple of years Masai will be gone and we'll go back to the raptors glory days where some incompetent D bag becomes POBO and hires geniuses like Rob Babcock to run the show. Then you guys will get exactly what you deserve. On the bright side though, we will be picking in the top 5-10 for the next decade when that happens so you guys will probably be happy at all the Charlie Villanuevas and Rafael Araujos we end up with.

[anotherhomer]

This seems like a "let me do a desperate attempt to save my job" trade

The move definitely is a desperate attempt at saving his job (1 year left on contract). Although Masai didn't overpay for BI, he did ignore the cap consequences of adding a $40M+ AAV often injured player. The cap issues will show up as soon as next season, when Scottie Barnes max kicks in. If MLSE allows this team to go into the tax then they better deliver playoffs, despite having a bunch of 1-way starters who may not fit together

i think he would had done the trade regardless

but i think he's not going to care about cap hell if he's being fire anyways

[tsherkin]

I think we'll have to see what happens with the draft and BI's first season before we can really evaluate what's going on. Toronto was not likely to ever commit to a protracted, multi-year tank. And frankly, we haven't seen a ton of that strategy working out super well.

The Knicks were in the lottery for most of 20 years (17 years in 20 under 40 wins) and that didn't pan out for them. Washington hasn't won more than 35 games since 2018. Atlanta was under 30 wins for 3 years from 18-20. Going back to 05, Charlotte has 17 seasons under 40 wins and hasn't won 50 games since 1998. They have a 7-win season in there. Chicago's working on its 6th season under 40 wins in the last 8. Detroit's FINALLY looking at a season of 27+ wins, after 20, 20, 23, 17 and 14. And they got Cade out of all that. Orlando has mostly been pretty bad since 2013, with 7 seasons under 30 wins and another 3 under 40. They have Wagner and Paolo, so we'll see what happens with them. Portland's won 27, 33 and 21 games in the three previous seasons, and they're sub-.500 again.
The Spurs made it happen, they got Wemby. Utah's been bad for a couple years now and they're REALLY bad this year, but the draft hasn't come yet, so we'll see.

Generally speaking, though, you can see the trend that multi-year tanking hasn't really been the thing. So that in mind, it's hard to envision that Masai was going to commit to just obliterating the team for a multi-year tank. We're in position for probably a top-6 pick, which isn't awful. It would be MORE ideal if we were jockeying for a higher pick, but the worst 3 teams in the league are just out of reach terrible, so there's no real reason to trash potential assets to make an effort in a race we were never going to win.

We'll see how it goes, I guess.

[jbk1234]

What people need to understand is (1) not every ownership group is okay with a bottom out rebuild; and (2) a bottom out rebuild was going to be hard after the O.G. trade with Poeltl and Barnes still on the roster. Poeltl, Barnes, Barrett, and IQ are good enough themselves to win you 30 games. They won't get you any higher than .500, but it's going to be really hard to finish in the bottom 5.

I don't know that their players fit well together, or that IQ and Barrett have much trade values on their second contracts, but Ingram at that price is a no brainer for a team that isn't a free agent destination.

[ItsDanger]

And here for the gens boards enjoyment is what the raptors forum looks like every day. The whiny kids stamping their feet that the team should trade everyone so they can win 10 games every year for a 14% shot at the first overall pick. They took a break while the team won a championship but they're back in full force now.

If you are truly done with Masai, then I encourage you to stop watching the team and do something productive with your life.

Like I've been saying since the Rogers takeover happens, in a couple of years Masai will be gone and we'll go back to the raptors glory days where some incompetent D bag becomes POBO and hires geniuses like Rob Babcock to run the show. Then you guys will get exactly what you deserve. On the bright side though, we will be picking in the top 5-10 for the next decade when that happens so you guys will probably be happy at all the Charlie Villanuevas and Rafael Araujos we end up with.

What about when we drafted TMac and Vince? Or is that period of Raps history excluded for convenience. In today's salary structure, may have turned out differently.

Masai's ability in this current phase is certainly open to question.

[BHF]

Stop crying, the raptors desperately needed a go to scorer and got one for dirt cheap, on top of that they will have a decent pick in the next draft.

[tsherkin]

Stop crying, the raptors desperately needed a go to scorer and got one for dirt cheap, on top of that they will have a decent pick in the next draft.

Ingram is interesting in concept. He averages 20+ missed games per season, though, and a little under league-average efficiency. He's more of a compelling thought in concept than in practice unless some stuff dramatically changes. When he's on the floor, he instantly raises the quality of our offense over fielding Scottie as our focal scorer, though, that's for certain.

[realball]

Masai has had a great season - team is in the thick of the Flagg race yet has lots of young talent.

Who is this young talent? Like are any ever going to be a top 10 player? Not close. I really think the Raptors have some of the worst young players in the league, and most aren’t even that young anymore.

I recall when Cleveland and Toronto were bad and drafted Mobley and Barnes. I thought to myself Toronto is sitting on multiple guys who would fetch like 2 or 3 firsts. I wish we had that type of arsenal as a Cavs fan. Instead you started trading picks for scrubs and held onto guys way too long. It’s amazing how the Raptors parlayed having a good rookie and bunch of guys with serious value into absolute trash and very few assets. You don’t have a player I’d want outside Barnes, and even he I wouldn’t go crazy to get. He’s a piece if surrounded by better players. Instead he’s the best player on a bad team and that’s amazing mismanagement.

Kind of ridiculous to hear a Cavs fan talking about top 10 players when they are at the top of the East without a top 10 player. Closest thing the Cavs have to a top 10 player is Donovan Mitchell, a player they traded away all their 1sts for. The Raptors are in prime position to trade picks for a star player. Until then, they have an extremely solid supporting cast of players, and lots of young players who have shown promise (just five rookies from this year alone).

[web123888]

He’s responsible for the only relevant season in Toronto basketball history. Toronto is otherwise a useless city for basketball. Masai deserves a statue for the Kawhi Leonard 1-year rental trade as it gave them the only title the franchise will ever sniff.

[tsherkin]

He’s responsible for the only relevant season in Toronto basketball history.

Championship seasons are not the only relevant seasons in a team's history, that's nonsense.

[Appostis]

he's always been a fraud. He inherited a loaded and ascending Raptors team that already had Lowry, DeRozan, Gay and Valanciunas in a very weak Eastern Conference. All those years the Raptors got out of the 2nd round just once until they were gifted MVP candidate Kawhi and they were able to beat an injured Warriors team. Since then, they've gone back to being pretenders if not altogether irrelevant for the foreseeable future unless he's gifted Flagg.

lol.loaded and ascending

What are people smoking.

Seems to be a very weird and strong anti MU vibe going.

[Appostis]

He’s responsible for the only relevant season in Toronto basketball history.

Championship seasons are not the only relevant seasons in a team's history, that's nonsense.

What was it? 11 + years of at least playoff basketball in the last 15 years?

[web123888]

He’s responsible for the only relevant season in Toronto basketball history.

Championship seasons are not the only relevant seasons in a team's history, that's nonsense.

Unless a team is otherwise known for past history of deep playoffs runs or Finals appearances etc (90’s Knicks, 00’s Suns for example), which the Raptors are not, yea it basically is.

[tsherkin]

Unless a team is otherwise known for past history of deep playoffs runs or Finals appearances etc (90’s Knicks, 00’s Suns for example), which the Raptors are not, yea it basically is.

That's daft. That would mean that like half the league doesn't have relevant basketball seasons, which is stupid.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Does a good job picking up talent in the draft, his one saving grace.

I think his job is harder than most in that most American born players/stars would be happy to be traded to and or sign as a F/A with the Raptors.

Assuming you meant “wouldn’t” I disagree as every small market team has the same issues.

[Ssj16]

What do you expect? Toronto to be a contender every year?

Definitely not but at least have a semblance of a plan like OKC, Houston, Orlando, etc.

We get mid players that we overpay and don't even tank properly.

When there are blue chip prospects like Wemby on the line, I would fully embrace being bad for a couple of years and start a clear plan to rebuild with smart cost efficient signings.

We essentially traded away Siakam for Ingram which makes no sense.

[Ssj16]

why not wait until the draft lottery to see where we end up in the 2025 draft?

if we get lucky at the draft lottery and get a top 3 pick, everyone will be calling Masai a genius

if we don't and fall to 8th or later, then you can call for Masai to be fired if next season is filled with injuries to Quickley and Ingram

I honestly was thinking about it but these moves that he made during the trade deadline has me confused.

I would love nothing more than to eat crow and have my faith in Masai restored.