I don't understand the ASG Dooming

[ryguy613]

If you don’t care why do you care if other people care? I don’t think there is anybody in the world that defends the Pro Bowl, I thought the whole thing was canceled? I think most people would rather NBA ASG was just canceled and they scheduled less back to backs, the only thing people care about are the flowers for making the team.

I think youve missed the point. I brought up the pro bowl not because I claim that people "defend" it. You are correct that nobody cares about it at all, to the point where you arent even sure whether or not its been cancelled....... and YET, NFL fans dont dwell on that, and use it to make some grand narrative about the failings of the sport. Thats literally why I brought it up. Im asking why people are using their dislike of the ASG to endlessly complain and act like the sky is falling in the league.

[ryguy613]

Apples to oranges. NFL is a contact sport. The entire point of the game is players hitting each other. Serious injuries are a real risk.

The NBA players just aren't giving effort, period. It's extremely unlikely that playing competitively will result in a serious injury.

Its also extremely unlikely that a single Pro Bowl game will result in any one player getting hurt. Injuries happen all the time in both sports, but the odds of them happening in any given game are of course slim. Yes, the chances are greater for the Pro Bowl, but contact DOES happen in a competitive NBA game so they have as much a chance of getting hurt then as they would during any other game... so if there is no incentive to put your body on the line why would you?

You can watch five NBA games in a row and not see anyone get injured. You'll be hard pressed to watch even a single NFL game and not see at least one injury. The Pro Bowl is filled with Pro Bowlers, do you think they want to **** up all that non-guaranteed money? NBA players get their money no matter what. There's a big difference between playing hard in the All-Star game and the Pro Bowl.

I dont have the statistics on this, but injuries are common enough in the NBA that you randomly selected 1 in 5 games. Thats more than enough of a risk for players not to want to put their bodies on the line. I love how your excuse here is that the risk is HIGHER for NFL players so therefor you deem it ok. You admit there is risk for NBA players, but youve deemed it not sufficient enough to do what NFL players have done forever. lol. Its silly. Look, in both cases, its an exhibition game that the players dont want to be part of. Neither case should that cause people to get this upset, in my opinion, yet the point is, only one of them does.

[dballislife]

basketball requires a lot of effort thats why theres many injuries, you want them to try during a free game and risk getting injured and costing the player and franchise millions...the thing is the all star game will never ever be entertaining...the players are playing chill ball and thats what theres suppose to do

[Scalabrine]

The NFL is setting new ratings records every year. The pro bowl has never mattered to anyone under 12 years old. The NFL doesn’t act like it matters. No one is passionate about the pro bowl.

The All Star game and the weekend in general used to matter. We had stars like MJ in the dunk contest. Players were competitive and prideful and didn’t want to lose the all star game. There was some effort. The NBA markets the all star game like it’s a big deal. It’s supposed to matter

You're talking about almost 40 years ago.

I don't think they market it like it's supposed to matter. I mean, they defintiely market it, but not like it's some super competitive game or anything.

[NZB2323]

If you don’t care why do you care if other people care? I don’t think there is anybody in the world that defends the Pro Bowl, I thought the whole thing was canceled? I think most people would rather NBA ASG was just canceled and they scheduled less back to backs, the only thing people care about are the flowers for making the team.

I think youve missed the point. I brought up the pro bowl not because I claim that people "defend" it. You are correct that nobody cares about it at all, to the point where you arent even sure whether or not its been cancelled....... and YET, NFL fans dont dwell on that, and use it to make some grand narrative about the failings of the sport. Thats literally why I brought it up. Im asking why people are using their dislike of the ASG to endlessly complain and act like the sky is falling in the league.

1. You can’t act like the Sky is falling in the NFL. NFL games accounted for 72 of the top 100 broadcasts last year.

2. With how dangerous football is, it makes sense to make an all-star game less dangerous.

3. The pro-bowl never mattered as much. The season is over. I’ve never watched the pro bowl. I can’t name you iconic moments in pro bowl history. The NBA has Jerry West hitting the game winning shot in 72, Dr. J dunking on Kareem in 77 after the NBA/ABA merger, Magic winning all-star game MVP in 1992 after retiring from HIV, Jordan and Kobe going at each other in 98 and 2002, Kawhi winning All-Star game MVP after Kobe died and they named the game MVP after Kobe.

4. NBA fans complain about the NBA and are upset with the product. NFL fans, for the most part, are excited about the NFL product.

[Crazy-Canuck]

They should just cancel the AS game. The only people who have less interest than fans are the players that are participating in it.

The game just isn't fun. There's no what if.
It used to be fun because we saw great players who would otherwise never play together, actually play together.

Now we have AS's joining forces on the same team by essentially blackmailing teams to get out or teams just selling players because they aren't going to win any body building contests.

[NyKnicks1714]

Don't get me wrong, I find NBA All Star Weekend as unwatchable as the next guy, but I think some people are going a little overboard in response. I don't really see how the decline of the ASG is indicative of a league in decline. Where is this smoke for the NFL? The Pro Bowl has been a complete joke for longer period of time, and I dont think Ive ever heard anyone claim that the sky is falling because of it. I've heard minor grumblings about how pointless the Pro Bowl is, and how they should just get rid of it, yet I dont hear people talking about how the league is ruined, or the players are spoiled. What's the difference exactly? Why is it no big deal for the NFL, but its outrageous for the NBA?

You're right. It was just so so so so bad that people are having understandably strong reactions. In the grand scheme of things it's meaningless though.

[ryguy613]

If you don’t care why do you care if other people care? I don’t think there is anybody in the world that defends the Pro Bowl, I thought the whole thing was canceled? I think most people would rather NBA ASG was just canceled and they scheduled less back to backs, the only thing people care about are the flowers for making the team.

I think youve missed the point. I brought up the pro bowl not because I claim that people "defend" it. You are correct that nobody cares about it at all, to the point where you arent even sure whether or not its been cancelled....... and YET, NFL fans dont dwell on that, and use it to make some grand narrative about the failings of the sport. Thats literally why I brought it up. Im asking why people are using their dislike of the ASG to endlessly complain and act like the sky is falling in the league.

1. You can’t act like the Sky is falling in the NFL. NFL games accounted for 72 of the top 100 broadcasts last year.

2. With how dangerous football is, it makes sense to make an all-star game less dangerous.

3. The pro-bowl never mattered as much. The season is over. I’ve never watched the pro bowl. I can’t name you iconic moments in pro bowl history. The NBA has Jerry West hitting the game winning shot in 72, Dr. J dunking on Kareem in 77 after the NBA/ABA merger, Magic winning all-star game MVP in 1992 after retiring from HIV, Jordan and Kobe going at each other in 98 and 2002, Kawhi winning All-Star game MVP after Kobe died and they named the game MVP after Kobe.

4. NBA fans complain about the NBA and are upset with the product. NFL fans, for the most part, are excited about the NFL product.

First of all, the sky isnt falling for either the NBA or the NFL. lets get that out of the way. Second, people complain about the NFL literally all the time, with varying degrees of legitimate grievances. Or I guess we just forgot about the horrors of KNEEL GATE! People bitch about officiating, about the over abundance of rules, about the game being rigged, about the game becoming soft, becoming too offense oriented.

The point I was making was not that the NBA and NFL are equally popular, therefore everything is clearly the same for both sports in all ways. The point is that disinterest in a meaningless ceremonial exhibition game is really not indicative of a sport in decline... i mean clearly as you mentioned the NFL still dominates. I can assure you, to any extent NBA ratings are down, it has virtually nothing to do with people missing the good old days of Dr. J dunking on Kareem literally 50 years ago lol. In 1977 the All Star Game was such a popular event that... it couldnt even elevate the NBA to a live broadcast sport. So I kinda dont wanna hear that back then people loved the sport and now, when multi billion dollar tv deals are being made year after year, everyone hates it. Its just not true.

To what I've witnessed, this argument has continuously been an exercise in confirmation bias. People seem to have an axe to grind with the NBA because of... politics, lets just call it what it is... and they want to see the league burn to prove that they were right about people being driven away from watching the game. So people take any excuse to talk about how bad its gotten and how its all falling apart right before our eyes. Any time in the last few years the ratings have gone up, people get quiet... but whenever the ratings level out, people puff their chest out and are like "SEE! SEE! PEOPLE HATE THIS ERA! WAKE UP SILVER!"

[NZB2323]

I think youve missed the point. I brought up the pro bowl not because I claim that people "defend" it. You are correct that nobody cares about it at all, to the point where you arent even sure whether or not its been cancelled....... and YET, NFL fans dont dwell on that, and use it to make some grand narrative about the failings of the sport. Thats literally why I brought it up. Im asking why people are using their dislike of the ASG to endlessly complain and act like the sky is falling in the league.

1. You can’t act like the Sky is falling in the NFL. NFL games accounted for 72 of the top 100 broadcasts last year.

2. With how dangerous football is, it makes sense to make an all-star game less dangerous.

3. The pro-bowl never mattered as much. The season is over. I’ve never watched the pro bowl. I can’t name you iconic moments in pro bowl history. The NBA has Jerry West hitting the game winning shot in 72, Dr. J dunking on Kareem in 77 after the NBA/ABA merger, Magic winning all-star game MVP in 1992 after retiring from HIV, Jordan and Kobe going at each other in 98 and 2002, Kawhi winning All-Star game MVP after Kobe died and they named the game MVP after Kobe.

4. NBA fans complain about the NBA and are upset with the product. NFL fans, for the most part, are excited about the NFL product.

First of all, the sky isnt falling for either the NBA or the NFL. lets get that out of the way. Second, people complain about the NFL literally all the time, with varying degrees of legitimate grievances. Or I guess we just forgot about the horrors of KNEEL GATE! People bitch about officiating, about the over abundance of rules, about the game being rigged, about the game becoming soft, becoming too offense oriented.

The point I was making was not that the NBA and NFL are equally popular, therefore everything is clearly the same for both sports in all ways. The point is that disinterest in a meaningless ceremonial exhibition game is really not indicative of a sport in decline... i mean clearly as you mentioned the NFL still dominates. I can assure you, to any extent NBA ratings are down, it has virtually nothing to do with people missing the good old days of Dr. J dunking on Kareem literally 50 years ago lol. In 1977 the All Star Game was such a popular event that... it couldnt even elevate the NBA to a live broadcast sport. So I kinda dont wanna hear that back then people loved the sport and now, when multi billion dollar tv deals are being made year after year, everyone hates it. Its just not true.

To what I've witnessed, this argument has continuously been an exercise in confirmation bias. People seem to have an axe to grind with the NBA because of... politics, lets just call it what it is... and they want to see the league burn to prove that they were right about people being driven away from watching the game. So people take any excuse to talk about how bad its gotten and how its all falling apart right before our eyes. Any time in the last few years the ratings have gone up, people get quiet... but whenever the ratings level out, people puff their chest out and are like "SEE! SEE! PEOPLE HATE THIS ERA! WAKE UP SILVER!"

It’s not all politics. People said the same thing about the NFL with “end racism” and players kneeling for the national anthem.

Some people complain about calls in the NFL, but their team, their fantasy team, betting, and the Super Bowl are all a big deal. The NFL crushes the NBA in the ratings.

The sky isn’t falling for the NBA, but ratings are declining, fans are complaining about the on court product, the all-star game used to be a big win for the league, and now everyone is complaining about it.

[liquidswords]

The ASG was bad, same with recent ASGs but we have a severe nostalgia problem in the NBA. The product that a majority of 30–50-year-olds grew up on was not as great as we remembered it.

[ryguy613]

1. You can’t act like the Sky is falling in the NFL. NFL games accounted for 72 of the top 100 broadcasts last year.

2. With how dangerous football is, it makes sense to make an all-star game less dangerous.

3. The pro-bowl never mattered as much. The season is over. I’ve never watched the pro bowl. I can’t name you iconic moments in pro bowl history. The NBA has Jerry West hitting the game winning shot in 72, Dr. J dunking on Kareem in 77 after the NBA/ABA merger, Magic winning all-star game MVP in 1992 after retiring from HIV, Jordan and Kobe going at each other in 98 and 2002, Kawhi winning All-Star game MVP after Kobe died and they named the game MVP after Kobe.

4. NBA fans complain about the NBA and are upset with the product. NFL fans, for the most part, are excited about the NFL product.

First of all, the sky isnt falling for either the NBA or the NFL. lets get that out of the way. Second, people complain about the NFL literally all the time, with varying degrees of legitimate grievances. Or I guess we just forgot about the horrors of KNEEL GATE! People bitch about officiating, about the over abundance of rules, about the game being rigged, about the game becoming soft, becoming too offense oriented.

The point I was making was not that the NBA and NFL are equally popular, therefore everything is clearly the same for both sports in all ways. The point is that disinterest in a meaningless ceremonial exhibition game is really not indicative of a sport in decline... i mean clearly as you mentioned the NFL still dominates. I can assure you, to any extent NBA ratings are down, it has virtually nothing to do with people missing the good old days of Dr. J dunking on Kareem literally 50 years ago lol. In 1977 the All Star Game was such a popular event that... it couldnt even elevate the NBA to a live broadcast sport. So I kinda dont wanna hear that back then people loved the sport and now, when multi billion dollar tv deals are being made year after year, everyone hates it. Its just not true.

To what I've witnessed, this argument has continuously been an exercise in confirmation bias. People seem to have an axe to grind with the NBA because of... politics, lets just call it what it is... and they want to see the league burn to prove that they were right about people being driven away from watching the game. So people take any excuse to talk about how bad its gotten and how its all falling apart right before our eyes. Any time in the last few years the ratings have gone up, people get quiet... but whenever the ratings level out, people puff their chest out and are like "SEE! SEE! PEOPLE HATE THIS ERA! WAKE UP SILVER!"

It’s not all politics. People said the same thing about the NFL with “end racism” and players kneeling for the national anthem.

Some people complain about calls in the NFL, but their team, their fantasy team, betting, and the Super Bowl are all a big deal. The NFL crushes the NBA in the ratings.

The sky isn’t falling for the NBA, but ratings are declining, fans are complaining about the on court product, the all-star game used to be a big win for the league, and now everyone is complaining about it.

right, i agree that people did say the same thing during the "end racism" stuff. thats why I brought up "KNEEL GATE". But I remember very clearly that as that stuff was happening, there actually were slight fluctuations in NFL ratings, and the "go woke go broke" crowd was jumping up and down claiming it was a direct result of the politics. Ratings evened out and everyone went silent. thats kinda what im saying. any time people see any kind of rating issue they are quick to apply their own personal gripes as the reason, and it rarely is. People complain about the NBA on the court product. People complain about the NFL on the field product. People just complain. its what sports fans do. I dont think there is any evidence that those gripes are driving fans away. I dont even think there IS evidence that fans are being driven away at all. The NFL dog walks the NBA in TV ratings because the NFL dog walks literally everything on TV in TV ratings. For everything NOT named the NFL, there is a shift in the way many people, especially younger people, consume their media. Ive been hearing for like a decade that the NBA is on its last legs, yet year after year, as people laser in on rating fluctuations game by game, the owners are making a fortune, and companies are bidding billions of dollars for content rights. So again, to me this looks a lot more like people seeing what they want to see.

[Heat3]

How to fix all star game. Have no game at all! Change the all star break to trade deadline break.

Bring all players and front offices to the host arena. Televise the wheeling and dealing for trades. Players when traded must get up from their seat and go sit with their new team and put on new hats like during the draft.

Fans can be in the stands booing or cheering at the deals like the roman colosseum.

[The Servant]

Adult men: quit crying about the ASG every year. It's sad.

Its one meaningless game, quit crying. Its always sucked, it's for 12 year olds.

[davidv2001]

The lack of effort in recent All-Star Games should come as no surprise with load management and tanking teams resting players liberally before the All-Star Break now common strategies deployed by many teams. If star players get to take nights off consistently during the regular season, why would they expect to be required to play hard during an All-Star Game, especially when they aren’t incentivized to do so? Either make the All-Star Game worth home court advantage in the NBA Finals, give out a significant monetary incentive to the winning team, or have the quarterfinals through the finals of the In-Season Tournament take place during the All-Star Break.

As far as the Dunk Contest, when it’s four non-stars participating and a bunch of rookies and sophomores, that’s a problem. Part of why the Three-Point Contest works is because the best shooters in the league that season are willing to participate.

[Infinite Llamas]

If you don’t care why do you care if other people care? I don’t think there is anybody in the world that defends the Pro Bowl, I thought the whole thing was canceled? I think most people would rather NBA ASG was just canceled and they scheduled less back to backs, the only thing people care about are the flowers for making the team.

I think youve missed the point. I brought up the pro bowl not because I claim that people "defend" it. You are correct that nobody cares about it at all, to the point where you arent even sure whether or not its been cancelled....... and YET, NFL fans dont dwell on that, and use it to make some grand narrative about the failings of the sport. Thats literally why I brought it up. Im asking why people are using their dislike of the ASG to endlessly complain and act like the sky is falling in the league.

1. You can’t act like the Sky is falling in the NFL. NFL games accounted for 72 of the top 100 broadcasts last year.

2. With how dangerous football is, it makes sense to make an all-star game less dangerous.

3. The pro-bowl never mattered as much. The season is over. I’ve never watched the pro bowl. I can’t name you iconic moments in pro bowl history. The NBA has Jerry West hitting the game winning shot in 72, Dr. J dunking on Kareem in 77 after the NBA/ABA merger, Magic winning all-star game MVP in 1992 after retiring from HIV, Jordan and Kobe going at each other in 98 and 2002, Kawhi winning All-Star game MVP after Kobe died and they named the game MVP after Kobe.

4. NBA fans complain about the NBA and are upset with the product. NFL fans, for the most part, are excited about the NFL product.

I have some coworkers who constantly moan about how trash the NFL product is now but it gives them a chance to drink with their buddies and play fantasy sports so they still tune in. I would say a lot of NFL fans would complain how watered down the product has become…don’t let the ratings fool you.

[Black Mage]

Don't get me wrong, I find NBA All Star Weekend as unwatchable as the next guy, but I think some people are going a little overboard in response. I don't really see how the decline of the ASG is indicative of a league in decline. Where is this smoke for the NFL? The Pro Bowl has been a complete joke for longer period of time, and I dont think Ive ever heard anyone claim that the sky is falling because of it. I've heard minor grumblings about how pointless the Pro Bowl is, and how they should just get rid of it, yet I dont hear people talking about how the league is ruined, or the players are spoiled. What's the difference exactly? Why is it no big deal for the NFL, but its outrageous for the NBA?

Apples to oranges. NFL is a contact sport. The entire point of the game is players hitting each other. Serious injuries are a real risk.

The NBA players just aren't giving effort, period. It's extremely unlikely that playing competitively will result in a serious injury.

The average number of fouls CALLED in an NBA game is 38.8. We all know many fouls go uncalled. that's a lot of contact. Then there's stuff that isn't a foul, like two players going for a rebound and one of them boxing out. That's contact.

The contact isn't as aggressive as the NFL, but there is a lot of contact the entire 24 seconds of every posession almost non stop on an NBA court.

Baseball, tennis, badminton, these are real examples of non contact sports where you can count the number of times players touch each other in a game or that number is 0 always.

Do Basketball players have to wear helmets? Pads? Do they need any kind of equipment to protect against the normal contact of the game? Why do you think that is?

There's 17 games in the season; compared to 82; yet we see players getting carted off, air-casted, taken by ambulance to hospitals at much higher rates than NBA players. Despite playing 20% of the number of games.

[zero rings]

The ASG was bad, same with recent ASGs but we have a severe nostalgia problem in the NBA. The product that a majority of 30–50-year-olds grew up on was not as great as we remembered it.

If prime MJ and Nique came back and recreated their “legendary” 1988 dunk contest, zoomer fans would call it cringe. They’d say Mac was better.

The bar for entertainment is just way higher than it used to be.

[ryguy613]

Apples to oranges. NFL is a contact sport. The entire point of the game is players hitting each other. Serious injuries are a real risk.

The NBA players just aren't giving effort, period. It's extremely unlikely that playing competitively will result in a serious injury.

The average number of fouls CALLED in an NBA game is 38.8. We all know many fouls go uncalled. that's a lot of contact. Then there's stuff that isn't a foul, like two players going for a rebound and one of them boxing out. That's contact.

The contact isn't as aggressive as the NFL, but there is a lot of contact the entire 24 seconds of every posession almost non stop on an NBA court.

Baseball, tennis, badminton, these are real examples of non contact sports where you can count the number of times players touch each other in a game or that number is 0 always.

Do Basketball players have to wear helmets? Pads? Do they need any kind of equipment to protect against the normal contact of the game? Why do you think that is?

There's 17 games in the season; compared to 82; yet we see players getting carted off, air-casted, taken by ambulance to hospitals at much higher rates than NBA players. Despite playing 20% of the number of games.

Yes, the NFL is a very violent sport. Yes, we are all very concerned with the well being of the players... which is why we (checks notes) added an extra game to the regular season.

[Edrees]

Apples to oranges. NFL is a contact sport. The entire point of the game is players hitting each other. Serious injuries are a real risk.

The NBA players just aren't giving effort, period. It's extremely unlikely that playing competitively will result in a serious injury.

The average number of fouls CALLED in an NBA game is 38.8. We all know many fouls go uncalled. that's a lot of contact. Then there's stuff that isn't a foul, like two players going for a rebound and one of them boxing out. That's contact.

The contact isn't as aggressive as the NFL, but there is a lot of contact the entire 24 seconds of every posession almost non stop on an NBA court.

Baseball, tennis, badminton, these are real examples of non contact sports where you can count the number of times players touch each other in a game or that number is 0 always.

Do Basketball players have to wear helmets? Pads? Do they need any kind of equipment to protect against the normal contact of the game? Why do you think that is?

There's 17 games in the season; compared to 82; yet we see players getting carted off, air-casted, taken by ambulance to hospitals at much higher rates than NBA players. Despite playing 20% of the number of games.

You know, both can be contact sports, even if the NFL is way more aggressive and likely to cause injuries, a point I conseded. I just think it's foolish not to consider basketball a contact sport.

Under your logic, diving isn't a water sport because they spend less time in the water than endurance swimmers and only the sport with the most water can be considered a water sport (can't have more than one)

[ryguy613]

The ASG was bad, same with recent ASGs but we have a severe nostalgia problem in the NBA. The product that a majority of 30–50-year-olds grew up on was not as great as we remembered it.

If prime MJ and Nique came back and recreated their “legendary” 1988 dunk contest, zoomer fans would call it cringe. They’d say Mac was better.

The bar for entertainment is just way higher than it used to be.

not sure i agree that its higher, but we certainly have to admit that its different. As Ive said a few times in this thread, younger folks consume entertainment in a different way than the previous generation. for that matter, my generation consumed entertainment in a different way than my parents did. My parents were born before TV's were even a common household item. Think about how much has changed between then and now in terms of media consumption. For that matter, think about how far we've come in regards to the way we market professional sports... the way we market any and all products on the global stage for that matter.