Best Player during the "Lebron Era"

[Statlanta]

2003 - 2010 = Kobe

2011 - 2015 = Lebron

2016 = Kawhi

2017 - 2018 = Harden or KD

2019 - 2021 = Giannis

2022 - present = Jokic

does this seem reasonable?

I can hear the arguments already about him being better than Kobe but Kobe was leading the league in scoring, making all-defense and winning championships during those years.

I can hear the argument already about Kawhi but Kawhi was without a doubt the best two-way player in the league and won DPOY while doing it all on offense.

after that there's zero argument for Lebron being the best player as his defense fell off a cliff and other guys rose to prominence.

So would you have any of it different? Which years, if any?

your list is unreasonable because of your Sacramento bias for leaving out Curry at least for 1 of those years.

[f4p]

A LeBron and Steph hater. A rare breed.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Aside from LeBron, the alternatives are:
Duncan
Curry

…that’s the list.

So not even when he more or less single handedly took down Portland, the Lakers, OKC and the Miami superteam, Dirk was better than LeBron? Did you really think this through?

[The Master]

Yea but if we look at how dominate Giannis was in the regular season i think its still him. Those two years were peak Giannis

Not really (re: peak) Giannis went 0-3 in 2020 against Heat and got injured at the start of game 4 (and that was the only game Bucks won), this is something difficult to overlook in assessing overall yearly performance - his peak overall was clearly a year later from the latter part of the series against Nets. In 2019, it was probably closer as he was at least healthy in the playoffs.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

With the benefit of hindsight. It’s hard not to see LeBron the best player of his era. He was kinda punished for bringing a back supporting cast further than expected.

Early in his career, his lack of jumper cast doubt on his overall greatness.

By 09 playoffs was his coming out party as clear best player in lg but still some doubt on the results. 10 more best player quality play but no ring.

If his career continues like this the discussion would be very different. With hindsight , we seen him bring the dominant play and win some rings. Kind of validates his earlier career play when their was a bit of doubt could he live up to the hype.

[infinite11285]

Disrespecting Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi and Giannis like they didnt clearly dominate LeBron in their head to head match ups is just embarrassingly ignorant.

LeBron vs the Field All-Time W/L (Reg Season & Playoffs)
LBJ v Duncan (15-21)
LBJ v Curry (26-30)
LBJ v Kawhi (16-20)
LBJ v Dirk (18-14)
LBJ v Kobe (16-6)
LBJ v KD (24-19)
LBJ v Giannis (17-6)

Production-wise
...against Duncan, LBJ led in ppg, ast, stls;
...against Curry, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Dirk, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and stls;
...against Kawhi, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Kobe, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against KD, LBJ led in rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against Giannis, LBJ led in ppg, ast, and stls.

Lebron's toughest matchups
Pure win‑loss metric: Tim Duncan (15‑21) is the toughest; it’s LeBron’s worst winning percentage and only matchup where he trailed both on the scoreboard and in rim protection/rebounding categories.

Volume‑adjusted view: Stephen Curry edges Duncan for “sustained difficulty” (largest sample – 56 games – and still a sub‑.500 result). Curry also imposes the greatest offensive pace pressure, inflating LeBron’s minutes and usage in Finals runs.

Average categories led: 3.8 of 5. He’s never out‑produced in fewer than three categories, underscoring the all‑around load he carries.

Scoring burden: LeBron trails only Durant in points per game among the group; against everyone else he’s the top scorer and primary creator (ast leader in every matchup).

Defensive & glass work: LeBron leads in steals in five of six duels and in blocks vs four opponents—showing he’s often the most versatile defender on the floor in addition to directing the offense.

Framing Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi, or Giannis as having “clearly dominated” LeBron crumbles once you separate narrative from numbers. LeBron owns the statistical upper hand in at least three major box‑score categories against every one of them—often scoring and play‑making while matching or beating them on the glass and in defensive stats. Only Duncan and Curry finish with a win‑loss edge, and even there LeBron’s individual production still outpaces theirs. In the smaller Kobe and Giannis samples he posts a .730‑plus win rate; versus Durant and Kawhi he’s above .500 while stuffing the stat sheet. In short, some rivals carved out series‑by‑series victories, but none “clearly dominated” the player who, across every matchup, remained the most versatile force on the court. We can also clearly see why the Warriors were so adamant in their recruitment of KD. LBJ's head-to-head matchup against Curry looks significantly different if we remove KD from the equation.

You are quoting box score statistics, most of which heavily depend on the team surrounding a player. I''m pretty sure you know that, too.

The mistake you make is looking at numbers only, and you pick those numbers that favor the narrative you try to sell. That isnt "statistics" in the scientific sense. You state a zero hypothesis and then you look at all available numbers, unbiased. We all know no statistic is able to describe the game completely, let alone basic box score numbers. We all know some guys are experts at padding their individual stats while hurting their teams success. I would claim LeBron is one of them, but you dont have to agree. Ultimately we dont know what drives him, but watching him slack on defense, sometimes not even runing back just to chase a scoring title told me all i needed to know.

I am looking at the game first. I saw prime Kawhi shutting down LeBron. I saw prime KD stopping LeBron while hitting the game winner over him. Tim Duncan beat him. Steph was not ever matched up with him but when he had a comparable team around him, he won several titles in direct competition. People love to talk about 2016 but then you cannot disregard 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022.

There is no precise metric to name who the "best player" was in any given year. Certainly its not basic box score statistics. But the claim that LeBron was the best from 2008 to 2020 as some did in here is just so wrong. He cant be best if he cant beat guys in their direct matchup, and that was the case for both Kawhi and KD.

Big moments linger in memory far longer than any spreadsheet can—but when you step back and examine the full picture, those moments only tell part of the story.

1. “Box score depends on teammates.”
True—but impact metrics designed to scrub out lineup noise still paint the same picture. From 2008‑20:

Metric Seasons LeBron ranked #1
Playoff BPM: 10 of 13
Playoff EPM (BBall‑Index): 8 of 10 (first year 2014)
RAPM / RAPTOR‑WAR: 7 of 12

Those are context‑adjusted models; they explicitly credit or penalize a player for the quality of teammates. LeBron leads the league more often than anyone else in this conversation over that span.

2. “Prime Kawhi/KD shut him down & beat him head‑to‑head.”
Kawhi: Only two playoff series (2013, 2014). In both, LeBron averaged 28‑8‑4 on 62 TS%, outscoring Leonard each time. Kawhi’s ’14 FMVP came for being the best Spur in a system that shot a Finals‑record 52 FG% as a team. “Shutting down” is generous.

KD: LeBron beat Durant 4‑1 in the 2012 Finals and owned the head‑to‑head W/L until KD joined a 73‑win core. Even in ’17‑18 LeBron posted 34‑10‑9 on 59 TS%—historic numbers while his next‑best teammate (Kyrie ’17, then no Kyrie in ’18) watched KD, Steph, Klay & Dray check-in together.

Game‑winner in LeBron’s face? Sure—iconic shot. Single play ≠ whole matchup.

3. “Tim Duncan beat him.”
Yes—on the NBA’s model franchise, with Pop + Parker + Ginóbili (and later Kawhi) vs a 22‑year‑old in 2007 and a Heat roster running on fumes in 2014. Nobody sensible denies Duncan’s greatness; it just doesn’t negate LeBron’s era‑long top‑dog status.

4. “Steph won more titles in direct competition.”
Team trophies = team context. When the supporting casts were remotely comparable (2016, net rating within 1 pt before Kyrie/Love injuries in ’15), LeBron’s side took one ring apiece. The rest came against two‑MVPs‑plus‑All‑NBA‑core imbalance.

5. “Can’t be best if you don’t always ‘beat the guy.’”
Basketball isn’t tennis. The best player can (and often does) lose a series when the other roster is deeper or healthier. That’s why analysts lean on impact stats across full seasons and playoff runs, not isolated series scores.
-LeBron logged 14 straight years top‑3 in playoff BPM. No one else in NBA history has more than seven.
-He holds the all‑time records for playoff points, wins and Win Shares.
-His five‑year playoff peak (2011‑15) is the top RAPTOR‑WAR stretch ever measured.

Bottom line:
Head‑to‑head narratives are fun, but once you control for sample size, roster quality, and opponent synergy, LeBron’s individual impact from 2008‑20 grades out above anyone else’s. Kawhi and KD had signature moments; Duncan and Steph won with historically loaded cores. Again, none “clearly dominated” a player who, by virtually every context‑adjusted metric we have, remained the single most valuable force in the league for more than a decade.

[Heej]

Kawhi over LeBron in 2016 is hilarious cuz numbers-wise LeBron was better on defense that season and he proved it in the Finals

[MrPainfulTruth]

LeBron vs the Field All-Time W/L (Reg Season & Playoffs)
LBJ v Duncan (15-21)
LBJ v Curry (26-30)
LBJ v Kawhi (16-20)
LBJ v Dirk (18-14)
LBJ v Kobe (16-6)
LBJ v KD (24-19)
LBJ v Giannis (17-6)

Production-wise
...against Duncan, LBJ led in ppg, ast, stls;
...against Curry, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Dirk, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and stls;
...against Kawhi, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Kobe, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against KD, LBJ led in rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against Giannis, LBJ led in ppg, ast, and stls.

Lebron's toughest matchups
Pure win‑loss metric: Tim Duncan (15‑21) is the toughest; it’s LeBron’s worst winning percentage and only matchup where he trailed both on the scoreboard and in rim protection/rebounding categories.

Volume‑adjusted view: Stephen Curry edges Duncan for “sustained difficulty” (largest sample – 56 games – and still a sub‑.500 result). Curry also imposes the greatest offensive pace pressure, inflating LeBron’s minutes and usage in Finals runs.

Average categories led: 3.8 of 5. He’s never out‑produced in fewer than three categories, underscoring the all‑around load he carries.

Scoring burden: LeBron trails only Durant in points per game among the group; against everyone else he’s the top scorer and primary creator (ast leader in every matchup).

Defensive & glass work: LeBron leads in steals in five of six duels and in blocks vs four opponents—showing he’s often the most versatile defender on the floor in addition to directing the offense.

Framing Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi, or Giannis as having “clearly dominated” LeBron crumbles once you separate narrative from numbers. LeBron owns the statistical upper hand in at least three major box‑score categories against every one of them—often scoring and play‑making while matching or beating them on the glass and in defensive stats. Only Duncan and Curry finish with a win‑loss edge, and even there LeBron’s individual production still outpaces theirs. In the smaller Kobe and Giannis samples he posts a .730‑plus win rate; versus Durant and Kawhi he’s above .500 while stuffing the stat sheet. In short, some rivals carved out series‑by‑series victories, but none “clearly dominated” the player who, across every matchup, remained the most versatile force on the court. We can also clearly see why the Warriors were so adamant in their recruitment of KD. LBJ's head-to-head matchup against Curry looks significantly different if we remove KD from the equation.

You are quoting box score statistics, most of which heavily depend on the team surrounding a player. I''m pretty sure you know that, too.

The mistake you make is looking at numbers only, and you pick those numbers that favor the narrative you try to sell. That isnt "statistics" in the scientific sense. You state a zero hypothesis and then you look at all available numbers, unbiased. We all know no statistic is able to describe the game completely, let alone basic box score numbers. We all know some guys are experts at padding their individual stats while hurting their teams success. I would claim LeBron is one of them, but you dont have to agree. Ultimately we dont know what drives him, but watching him slack on defense, sometimes not even runing back just to chase a scoring title told me all i needed to know.

I am looking at the game first. I saw prime Kawhi shutting down LeBron. I saw prime KD stopping LeBron while hitting the game winner over him. Tim Duncan beat him. Steph was not ever matched up with him but when he had a comparable team around him, he won several titles in direct competition. People love to talk about 2016 but then you cannot disregard 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022.

There is no precise metric to name who the "best player" was in any given year. Certainly its not basic box score statistics. But the claim that LeBron was the best from 2008 to 2020 as some did in here is just so wrong. He cant be best if he cant beat guys in their direct matchup, and that was the case for both Kawhi and KD.

Big moments linger in memory far longer than any spreadsheet can—but when you step back and examine the full picture, those moments only tell part of the story.

1. “Box score depends on teammates.”
True—but impact metrics designed to scrub out lineup noise still paint the same picture. From 2008‑20:

Metric Seasons LeBron ranked #1
Playoff BPM: 10 of 13
Playoff EPM (BBall‑Index): 8 of 10 (first year 2014)
RAPM / RAPTOR‑WAR: 7 of 12

Those are context‑adjusted models; they explicitly credit or penalize a player for the quality of teammates. LeBron leads the league more often than anyone else in this conversation over that span.

2. “Prime Kawhi/KD shut him down & beat him head‑to‑head.”
Kawhi: Only two playoff series (2013, 2014). In both, LeBron averaged 28‑8‑4 on 62 TS%, outscoring Leonard each time. Kawhi’s ’14 FMVP came for being the best Spur in a system that shot a Finals‑record 52 FG% as a team. “Shutting down” is generous.

KD: LeBron beat Durant 4‑1 in the 2012 Finals and owned the head‑to‑head W/L until KD joined a 73‑win core. Even in ’17‑18 LeBron posted 34‑10‑9 on 59 TS%—historic numbers while his next‑best teammate (Kyrie ’17, then no Kyrie in ’18) watched KD, Steph, Klay & Dray check-in together.

Game‑winner in LeBron’s face? Sure—iconic shot. Single play ≠ whole matchup.

3. “Tim Duncan beat him.”
Yes—on the NBA’s model franchise, with Pop + Parker + Ginóbili (and later Kawhi) vs a 22‑year‑old in 2007 and a Heat roster running on fumes in 2014. Nobody sensible denies Duncan’s greatness; it just doesn’t negate LeBron’s era‑long top‑dog status.

4. “Steph won more titles in direct competition.”
Team trophies = team context. When the supporting casts were remotely comparable (2016, net rating within 1 pt before Kyrie/Love injuries in ’15), LeBron’s side took one ring apiece. The rest came against two‑MVPs‑plus‑All‑NBA‑core imbalance.

5. “Can’t be best if you don’t always ‘beat the guy.’”
Basketball isn’t tennis. The best player can (and often does) lose a series when the other roster is deeper or healthier. That’s why analysts lean on impact stats across full seasons and playoff runs, not isolated series scores.
-LeBron logged 14 straight years top‑3 in playoff BPM. No one else in NBA history has more than seven.
-He holds the all‑time records for playoff points, wins and Win Shares.
-His five‑year playoff peak (2011‑15) is the top RAPTOR‑WAR stretch ever measured.

Bottom line:
Head‑to‑head narratives are fun, but once you control for sample size, roster quality, and opponent synergy, LeBron’s individual impact from 2008‑20 grades out above anyone else’s. Kawhi and KD had signature moments; Duncan and Steph won with historically loaded cores. Again, none “clearly dominated” a player who, by virtually every context‑adjusted metric we have, remained the single most valuable force in the league for more than a decade.

I respect your opinion. I agree that until he visibly stopped playing defense (around 2018-2019), he was the one constant while the challengers changed. I dont agree that he was the best player in all those years. His achievement was that he was in the top 3-5 throughout a ridiculously long time span. But to claim he was better than each of those guys, every year, is just not right. And if oyu look at the big picture - he created the best superteams, AND supposedly was the best player, so how did he win only 4 times in >20 years? Something doesnt add up there, dont you think?

[bovice]

Lebron's first year back on the cavs was his best year ever imo

[MavsDirk41]

Yea but if we look at how dominate Giannis was in the regular season i think its still him. Those two years were peak Giannis

Not really (re: peak) Giannis went 0-3 in 2020 against Heat and got injured at the start of game 4 (and that was the only game Bucks won), this is something difficult to overlook in assessing overall yearly performance - his peak overall was clearly a year later from the latter part of the series against Nets. In 2019, it was probably closer as he was at least healthy in the playoffs.

Well i meant i think his peak started in 2019 and yes he didnt have a great series again Miami in the second round but he put up 31/16/6 against Orlando in round one. Came back next year and won the championship. I think Giannis was the best player in the nba 19 - 21. Those were his dominant years and all the advanced metrics plus eye test would show it imo.

[RRR3]

Disrespecting Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi and Giannis like they didnt clearly dominate LeBron in their head to head match ups is just embarrassingly ignorant.

LeBron vs the Field All-Time W/L (Reg Season & Playoffs)
LBJ v Duncan (15-21)
LBJ v Curry (26-30)
LBJ v Kawhi (16-20)
LBJ v Dirk (18-14)
LBJ v Kobe (16-6)
LBJ v KD (24-19)
LBJ v Giannis (17-6)

Production-wise
...against Duncan, LBJ led in ppg, ast, stls;
...against Curry, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Dirk, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and stls;
...against Kawhi, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Kobe, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against KD, LBJ led in rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against Giannis, LBJ led in ppg, ast, and stls.

Lebron's toughest matchups
Pure win‑loss metric: Tim Duncan (15‑21) is the toughest; it’s LeBron’s worst winning percentage and only matchup where he trailed both on the scoreboard and in rim protection/rebounding categories.

Volume‑adjusted view: Stephen Curry edges Duncan for “sustained difficulty” (largest sample – 56 games – and still a sub‑.500 result). Curry also imposes the greatest offensive pace pressure, inflating LeBron’s minutes and usage in Finals runs.

Average categories led: 3.8 of 5. He’s never out‑produced in fewer than three categories, underscoring the all‑around load he carries.

Scoring burden: LeBron trails only Durant in points per game among the group; against everyone else he’s the top scorer and primary creator (ast leader in every matchup).

Defensive & glass work: LeBron leads in steals in five of six duels and in blocks vs four opponents—showing he’s often the most versatile defender on the floor in addition to directing the offense.

Framing Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi, or Giannis as having “clearly dominated” LeBron crumbles once you separate narrative from numbers. LeBron owns the statistical upper hand in at least three major box‑score categories against every one of them—often scoring and play‑making while matching or beating them on the glass and in defensive stats. Only Duncan and Curry finish with a win‑loss edge, and even there LeBron’s individual production still outpaces theirs. In the smaller Kobe and Giannis samples he posts a .730‑plus win rate; versus Durant and Kawhi he’s above .500 while stuffing the stat sheet. In short, some rivals carved out series‑by‑series victories, but none “clearly dominated” the player who, across every matchup, remained the most versatile force on the court. We can also clearly see why the Warriors were so adamant in their recruitment of KD. LBJ's head-to-head matchup against Curry looks significantly different if we remove KD from the equation.

You are quoting box score statistics, most of which heavily depend on the team surrounding a player. I''m pretty sure you know that, too.

The mistake you make is looking at numbers only, and you pick those numbers that favor the narrative you try to sell. That isnt "statistics" in the scientific sense. You state a zero hypothesis and then you look at all available numbers, unbiased. We all know no statistic is able to describe the game completely, let alone basic box score numbers. We all know some guys are experts at padding their individual stats while hurting their teams success. I would claim LeBron is one of them, but you dont have to agree. Ultimately we dont know what drives him, but watching him slack on defense, sometimes not even runing back just to chase a scoring title told me all i needed to know.

I am looking at the game first. I saw prime Kawhi shutting down LeBron. I saw prime KD stopping LeBron while hitting the game winner over him. Tim Duncan beat him. Steph was not ever matched up with him but when he had a comparable team around him, he won several titles in direct competition. People love to talk about 2016 but then you cannot disregard 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022.

There is no precise metric to name who the "best player" was in any given year. Certainly its not basic box score statistics. But the claim that LeBron was the best from 2008 to 2020 as some did in here is just so wrong. He cant be best if he cant beat guys in their direct matchup, and that was the case for both Kawhi and KD.

Are you just not going to address LeBron being 16-6 versus Kobe lol?

Is the truth that......PAINFUL?

[NZB2323]

09 to 18: LeBron.
07-08 and 20: also LeBron but closer.

I think 2020 was pretty clearly Giannis.

You can’t say LeBron was better than Kobe in 09 and 10 because he had better stats and worse teammates but then say LeBron was better than Giannis in 2020 when Giannis had better stats and worse teammates.

[Homer38]

09 to 18: LeBron.
07-08 and 20: also LeBron but closer.

I think 2020 was pretty clearly Giannis.

You can’t say LeBron was better than Kobe in 09 and 10 because he had better stats and worse teammates but then say LeBron was better than Giannis in 2020 when Giannis had better stats and worse teammates.

Maybe for 2010 but in 2009,LeBron had a all-time regular season and all-time playoffs run.Giannis struggle big time vs Miami in 2020

[MrPainfulTruth]

LeBron vs the Field All-Time W/L (Reg Season & Playoffs)
LBJ v Duncan (15-21)
LBJ v Curry (26-30)
LBJ v Kawhi (16-20)
LBJ v Dirk (18-14)
LBJ v Kobe (16-6)
LBJ v KD (24-19)
LBJ v Giannis (17-6)

Production-wise
...against Duncan, LBJ led in ppg, ast, stls;
...against Curry, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Dirk, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and stls;
...against Kawhi, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, and blks;
...against Kobe, LBJ led in ppg, rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against KD, LBJ led in rbs, ast, stls, and blks;
...against Giannis, LBJ led in ppg, ast, and stls.

Lebron's toughest matchups
Pure win‑loss metric: Tim Duncan (15‑21) is the toughest; it’s LeBron’s worst winning percentage and only matchup where he trailed both on the scoreboard and in rim protection/rebounding categories.

Volume‑adjusted view: Stephen Curry edges Duncan for “sustained difficulty” (largest sample – 56 games – and still a sub‑.500 result). Curry also imposes the greatest offensive pace pressure, inflating LeBron’s minutes and usage in Finals runs.

Average categories led: 3.8 of 5. He’s never out‑produced in fewer than three categories, underscoring the all‑around load he carries.

Scoring burden: LeBron trails only Durant in points per game among the group; against everyone else he’s the top scorer and primary creator (ast leader in every matchup).

Defensive & glass work: LeBron leads in steals in five of six duels and in blocks vs four opponents—showing he’s often the most versatile defender on the floor in addition to directing the offense.

Framing Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Timmy, KD, Kawhi, or Giannis as having “clearly dominated” LeBron crumbles once you separate narrative from numbers. LeBron owns the statistical upper hand in at least three major box‑score categories against every one of them—often scoring and play‑making while matching or beating them on the glass and in defensive stats. Only Duncan and Curry finish with a win‑loss edge, and even there LeBron’s individual production still outpaces theirs. In the smaller Kobe and Giannis samples he posts a .730‑plus win rate; versus Durant and Kawhi he’s above .500 while stuffing the stat sheet. In short, some rivals carved out series‑by‑series victories, but none “clearly dominated” the player who, across every matchup, remained the most versatile force on the court. We can also clearly see why the Warriors were so adamant in their recruitment of KD. LBJ's head-to-head matchup against Curry looks significantly different if we remove KD from the equation.

You are quoting box score statistics, most of which heavily depend on the team surrounding a player. I''m pretty sure you know that, too.

The mistake you make is looking at numbers only, and you pick those numbers that favor the narrative you try to sell. That isnt "statistics" in the scientific sense. You state a zero hypothesis and then you look at all available numbers, unbiased. We all know no statistic is able to describe the game completely, let alone basic box score numbers. We all know some guys are experts at padding their individual stats while hurting their teams success. I would claim LeBron is one of them, but you dont have to agree. Ultimately we dont know what drives him, but watching him slack on defense, sometimes not even runing back just to chase a scoring title told me all i needed to know.

I am looking at the game first. I saw prime Kawhi shutting down LeBron. I saw prime KD stopping LeBron while hitting the game winner over him. Tim Duncan beat him. Steph was not ever matched up with him but when he had a comparable team around him, he won several titles in direct competition. People love to talk about 2016 but then you cannot disregard 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022.

There is no precise metric to name who the "best player" was in any given year. Certainly its not basic box score statistics. But the claim that LeBron was the best from 2008 to 2020 as some did in here is just so wrong. He cant be best if he cant beat guys in their direct matchup, and that was the case for both Kawhi and KD.

Are you just not going to address LeBron being 16-6 versus Kobe lol?

Is the truth that......PAINFUL?

Whenever it suits your narrative, you use team success to "prove" individual achievements. When it doesnt, you deny it. Well you can keep your 16-6, i'll take 5>4 then

[infinite11285]

I respect your opinion. I agree that until he visibly stopped playing defense (around 2018-2019), he was the one constant while the challengers changed. I dont agree that he was the best player in all those years. His achievement was that he was in the top 3-5 throughout a ridiculously long time span. But to claim he was better than each of those guys, every year, is just not right. And if oyu look at the big picture - he created the best superteams, AND supposedly was the best player, so how did he win only 4 times in >20 years? Something doesnt add up there, dont you think?

I never said LeBron topped every rival in every season; my point was simply that Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Tim Duncan, KD, Kawhi, and Giannis did not “clearly dominate” him when they faced off [as you claimed]—the win‑loss records and his box‑score production make that plain. Using ring totals as the litmus test ignores the team‑centric nature of titles: rosters, injuries, cap spikes, and plain luck all decide who lifts the trophy. Even Michael Jordan, widely considered the benchmark for greatness, collected six championships in 15 seasons—yet no one uses that figure to diminish his stature. LeBron’s four titles came while he dragged aging or thin lineups to ten Finals and ran into two Spurs dynasties and three different Warrior iterations—five of the best teams ever assembled. Take those gauntlets off the board and six or even eight rings isn’t far‑fetched. What really separates him is his longevity: thirteen straight seasons in the top tier of context‑adjusted metrics and an almost permanent spot in the Finals.

[NZB2323]

09 to 18: LeBron.
07-08 and 20: also LeBron but closer.

I think 2020 was pretty clearly Giannis.

You can’t say LeBron was better than Kobe in 09 and 10 because he had better stats and worse teammates but then say LeBron was better than Giannis in 2020 when Giannis had better stats and worse teammates.

Maybe for 2010 but in 2009,LeBron had a all-time regular season and all-time playoffs run.Giannis struggle big time vs Miami in 2020

Sure, my overall point is that LeBron in 2020 was like Kobe in 2010. LeBron led the playoffs in VORP, but Giannis was ahead in BPM, AD was ahead in WS and WS\48, and Giannis and Mitchell were ahead in PER.

In the 2010 playoffs Kobe was 1st in VORP, Wade was 1st in BPM and PER, Gasol was 1st in WS, and Dirk was 1st in WS/48.

[The Master]

Well i meant i think his peak started in 2019 and yes he didnt have a great series again Miami in the second round but he put up 31/16/6 against Orlando in round one. Came back next year and won the championship. I think Giannis was the best player in the nba 19 - 21. Those were his dominant years and all the advanced metrics plus eye test would show it imo.

Yeah, if you go with aggregated period of time (2019-2021), then I definitely agree that Giannis was the best player in that period (Curry and Durant didn't play in 19/20 season, Kawhi choked in 2020 and got injured in 2021 playoffs, LeBron was injured in 2019 and 2021). I just don't think he was the best player in the single 19/20 season, considering LeBron still provided MVP-level impact in the regular season and had 28-11-9 on 64.7 TS%, 30.2 PER, 10.7 BPM playoffs. Giannis averaged 22-11-5 on 55TS% against Heat and got injured in the 1st half of G4. In simulation-like scenario, I don't think anyone would've chosen Giannis for that specific year, he literally got injured in the crucial series (not to mention he was 22PPG on 50TS% when Bucks went 0-3).

You can’t say LeBron was better than Kobe in 09 and 10 because he had better stats and worse teammates but then say LeBron was better than Giannis in 2020 when Giannis had better stats and worse teammates.

LeBron against Celtics 2008: 27-6-8-2, 48.0 TS%, 5.3 TOV (and amazing level of defense)
Bryant against Celtics 2008: 26-5-5-2, 50.5 TS%, 3.9 TOV

LeBron against Celtics 2010: 27-9-7-2-2, 55.6 TS%, 4.5 TOV
Bryant against Celtics 2010: 29-8-4-2-1, 52.8 TS%, 3.9 TOV

LeBron against Magic 2009: 39-8-8-1-1, 59.1 TS%, 4.2 TOV
Bryant against Magic 2009: 32-5-7-1-1, 52.5TS%, 3.2 TOV

LeBron against Heat 2020: 30-12-9-1, 67.1 TS%, 3,5 TOV
Giannis against Heat 2020: 22-11-5-1, 55.0 TS%, 2.8 TOV (missed half of game 4 and game 5)

These are just boxscore stats and I'm fine with someone having Kobe as the best player in 2010, but in general, that's the difference here, Bryant never outplayed LeBron against the same opponents in the playoffs production-wise (maybe Mavs 2011, but he still got swept with 23-3-3 on 52TS% series, so whatever). Even in 2008, Cavs were +21 with LeBron on a court against Boston (and -23 in 32 minutes without him) so he was actually very close to defeat much superior team talent-wise (close game 7).

[MrPainfulTruth]

I respect your opinion. I agree that until he visibly stopped playing defense (around 2018-2019), he was the one constant while the challengers changed. I dont agree that he was the best player in all those years. His achievement was that he was in the top 3-5 throughout a ridiculously long time span. But to claim he was better than each of those guys, every year, is just not right. And if oyu look at the big picture - he created the best superteams, AND supposedly was the best player, so how did he win only 4 times in >20 years? Something doesnt add up there, dont you think?

I never said LeBron topped every rival in every season; my point was simply that Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Tim Duncan, KD, Kawhi, and Giannis did not “clearly dominate” him when they faced off [as you claimed]—the win‑loss records and his box‑score production make that plain. Using ring totals as the litmus test ignores the team‑centric nature of titles: rosters, injuries, cap spikes, and plain luck all decide who lifts the trophy. Even Michael Jordan, widely considered the benchmark for greatness, collected six championships in 15 seasons—yet no one uses that figure to diminish his stature. LeBron’s four titles came while he dragged aging or thin lineups to ten Finals and ran into two Spurs dynasties and three different Warrior iterations—five of the best teams ever assembled. Take those gauntlets off the board and six or even eight rings isn’t far‑fetched. What really separates him is his longevity: thirteen straight seasons in the top tier of context‑adjusted metrics and an almost permanent spot in the Finals.

I dont disagree with most of your statements. LeBron has longevity going for him, as i wrote - he maintained a high level for many years, top 3-5 is a remarkable level. I simply dont think he was the ebst player for this entire time, which is what this topic is about.

I do not use season stats either to decide for myself who was the best player. See, LeBron "cruised" some years or at least it was used as an excuse by his fans when he didnt play hard in the regular season. The premise that season stats are sufficient to decide who the best player was in one individual season is arbitrary, not a law of nature. When i say they dominated him i refer to their decisive matchups in the playoffs. I do not refer to team success, he may have won in seasons he wasnt the better player.

Kawhi defended him. KD defended him. They basically beat him in their decisive games without help. Wether their TEAM also won or not isnt the question. He simply wasnt a better player than they were. Its more complex and fuzzy when comparing Dirk to him, or Steph, or Timmy. But i still think that for individual seasons, each of them topped LeBron. Doesnt take away from him, just adjusting the outworldly takes seen in this thread.

[infinite11285]

I respect your opinion. I agree that until he visibly stopped playing defense (around 2018-2019), he was the one constant while the challengers changed. I dont agree that he was the best player in all those years. His achievement was that he was in the top 3-5 throughout a ridiculously long time span. But to claim he was better than each of those guys, every year, is just not right. And if oyu look at the big picture - he created the best superteams, AND supposedly was the best player, so how did he win only 4 times in >20 years? Something doesnt add up there, dont you think?

I never said LeBron topped every rival in every season; my point was simply that Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Tim Duncan, KD, Kawhi, and Giannis did not “clearly dominate” him when they faced off [as you claimed]—the win‑loss records and his box‑score production make that plain. Using ring totals as the litmus test ignores the team‑centric nature of titles: rosters, injuries, cap spikes, and plain luck all decide who lifts the trophy. Even Michael Jordan, widely considered the benchmark for greatness, collected six championships in 15 seasons—yet no one uses that figure to diminish his stature. LeBron’s four titles came while he dragged aging or thin lineups to ten Finals and ran into two Spurs dynasties and three different Warrior iterations—five of the best teams ever assembled. Take those gauntlets off the board and six or even eight rings isn’t far‑fetched. What really separates him is his longevity: thirteen straight seasons in the top tier of context‑adjusted metrics and an almost permanent spot in the Finals.

I dont disagree with most of your statements. LeBron has longevity going for him, as i wrote - he maintained a high level for many years, top 3-5 is a remarkable level. I simply dont think he was the ebst player for this entire time, which is what this topic is about.

I do not use season stats either to decide for myself who was the best player. See, LeBron "cruised" some years or at least it was used as an excuse by his fans when he didnt play hard in the regular season. The premise that season stats are sufficient to decide who the best player was in one individual season is arbitrary, not a law of nature. When i say they dominated him i refer to their decisive matchups in the playoffs. I do not refer to team success, he may have won in seasons he wasnt the better player.

Kawhi defended him. KD defended him. They basically beat him in their decisive games without help. Wether their TEAM also won or not isnt the question. He simply wasnt a better player than they were. Its more complex and fuzzy when comparing Dirk to him, or Steph, or Timmy. But i still think that for individual seasons, each of them topped LeBron. Doesnt take away from him, just adjusting the outworldly takes seen in this thread.

You’re confusing isolated moments with outright dominance; if a single series is the yardstick, LeBron has just as many dominating moments against each of them, sans Dirk, which exposes the flaw in your logic.

[MrPainfulTruth]

I never said LeBron topped every rival in every season; my point was simply that Kobe, Dirk, Steph, Tim Duncan, KD, Kawhi, and Giannis did not “clearly dominate” him when they faced off [as you claimed]—the win‑loss records and his box‑score production make that plain. Using ring totals as the litmus test ignores the team‑centric nature of titles: rosters, injuries, cap spikes, and plain luck all decide who lifts the trophy. Even Michael Jordan, widely considered the benchmark for greatness, collected six championships in 15 seasons—yet no one uses that figure to diminish his stature. LeBron’s four titles came while he dragged aging or thin lineups to ten Finals and ran into two Spurs dynasties and three different Warrior iterations—five of the best teams ever assembled. Take those gauntlets off the board and six or even eight rings isn’t far‑fetched. What really separates him is his longevity: thirteen straight seasons in the top tier of context‑adjusted metrics and an almost permanent spot in the Finals.

I dont disagree with most of your statements. LeBron has longevity going for him, as i wrote - he maintained a high level for many years, top 3-5 is a remarkable level. I simply dont think he was the ebst player for this entire time, which is what this topic is about.

I do not use season stats either to decide for myself who was the best player. See, LeBron "cruised" some years or at least it was used as an excuse by his fans when he didnt play hard in the regular season. The premise that season stats are sufficient to decide who the best player was in one individual season is arbitrary, not a law of nature. When i say they dominated him i refer to their decisive matchups in the playoffs. I do not refer to team success, he may have won in seasons he wasnt the better player.

Kawhi defended him. KD defended him. They basically beat him in their decisive games without help. Wether their TEAM also won or not isnt the question. He simply wasnt a better player than they were. Its more complex and fuzzy when comparing Dirk to him, or Steph, or Timmy. But i still think that for individual seasons, each of them topped LeBron. Doesnt take away from him, just adjusting the outworldly takes seen in this thread.

You’re confusing isolated moments with outright dominance; if a single series is the yardstick, LeBron has just as many dominating moments against each of them, sans Dirk, which exposes the flaw in your logic.

I'm not referring to single plays, that would be stupid. But for many of them, they had direct series in the playoffs. LeBron met KD in 2017 and 2018. He met Dirk in 2011. He met Kawhi in 2013 and 2014. He met Steph in 2015 and 2016. People love to refer to 2016 as his greatest success yet fail to acknowledge Steph winning the year before.