Jalen Williams doesn't pass the eye test

[7seventynine9]

He's really good but he's a questionable max guy.

As the 3rd guy, he'd be great. As the 2nd guy, I think there's a chance he leaves you wanting more, especially teamed up with SGA. I'd worry he'd be like Jamal Murray. Of course with Chet, Jalen Williams might end up as the 3rd guy if OKC is willing to spend and Chet continues to develop.

Players make leaps in year 4 all the time, though Jalen Williams is a bit older than most players entering year 4. Leaps at ages 24-25 tend to be smaller but there are exceptions.

[bbms]

He's really good but he's a questionable max guy.

As the 3rd guy, he'd be great. As the 2nd guy, I think there's a chance he leaves you wanting more, especially teamed up with SGA. I'd worry he'd be like Jamal Murray. Of course with Chet, Jalen Williams might end up as the 3rd guy if OKC is willing to spend and Chet continues to develop.

Players make leaps in year 4 all the time, though Jalen Williams is a bit older than most players entering year 4. Leaps at ages 24-25 tend to be smaller but there are exceptions.

he's unquestionably a max contract. there are many players worse than him getting max contract. 1-5 all-d 1st with career 18-4-4, 60 ts%, 120 ortg, 11 tov% don't grow on trees. every season there are multiple worse players than him getting max off rookie deals, this is market.

[cupcakesnake]

Feels like Chet should be the 2nd option.

I think this is an important question for OKC. Between J.Dub and Chet, do they have a star second option on offense? Or can they collectively do the job of a 2nd and 3rd option on any given night?

Both players are amongst the best defenders at their positions, so they're hella valuable regardless. The problem on offense is that both these dudes want to drive the basketball, and Shai collapses the defense into the paint. It's a pretty simple problem. Shai can set up open shooters, but J.Dub isn't a great open shooter. Defenses don't give him a hard close out because they know he doesn't love to jack threes.

[Synciere]

He’s the kind of max guy that gets you in trouble year after when you have to max a third guy and now you’re up against the aprons. He wouldn’t have been an All Star if OKC were fourth instead of first in conference.

[kingr]

I'm really high on Jalen Williams. He has it in him, but I feel like he falls into the team scheme of 'just hand SGA the ball'. Then when he gets his opportunities, he's not sure what to do.

[bbms]

He’s the kind of max guy that gets you in trouble year after when you have to max a third guy and now you’re up against the aprons. He wouldn’t have been an All Star if OKC were fourth instead of first in conference.

jdub is a guy you max even if you don't want to commit to him, because someone will want him and will pay for him. a maxed jdub is easily tradeable later.

[7seventynine9]

He's really good but he's a questionable max guy.

As the 3rd guy, he'd be great. As the 2nd guy, I think there's a chance he leaves you wanting more, especially teamed up with SGA. I'd worry he'd be like Jamal Murray. Of course with Chet, Jalen Williams might end up as the 3rd guy if OKC is willing to spend and Chet continues to develop.

Players make leaps in year 4 all the time, though Jalen Williams is a bit older than most players entering year 4. Leaps at ages 24-25 tend to be smaller but there are exceptions.

he's unquestionably a max contract. there are many players worse than him getting max contract. 1-5 all-d 1st with career 18-4-4, 60 ts%, 120 ortg, 11 tov% don't grow on trees. every season there are multiple worse players than him getting max off rookie deals, this is market.

I worded that badly. He obviously gets the max but he'll leave you wanting more from a max guy.

[Dadouv47]

he's still worth the rookie max. He just can't be your second offensive option.

[Anderson Hunt]

I've posted this at least twice before, but it begs repeating: Presti and OKC should've moved hell and earth to acquire Karl Anthony-Towns instead of signing Josh Hartenstein.

I have zero idea if Minnesota would've taken what OKC was giving (Giddey and picks upon picks), but Towns would've fit in OKC like a hand in glove.

[Impuniti]

OKC is going to have some massive problems if their second option keeps laying eggs like this and demands a max.

The Thunder might need to start seriously thinking about consolidating their talent. Maybe make a run for Giannis.

They should be doing that either way. Pack Chet and Williams and get Giannis. Instant rings.

[1993Playoffs]

Man if he was slight more athletic he’d be better. He seems to lack something

[cupcakesnake]

I'm really high on Jalen Williams. He has it in him, but I feel like he falls into the team scheme of 'just hand SGA the ball'. Then when he gets his opportunities, he's not sure what to do.

I think it's mostly because they have SGA attack from the middle of the floor. The advantage is that it's harder for the defense bring perimeter help, and it allows Shai to always be able to counter into his god-level midrange game. In years prior, this would allow J.Dub to work the baseline a bit and punish backline help. Nowadays, teams don't want to surrender cuts to OKC, and would rather give them open 3s.

The downside to attacking from the middle is that you don't create a strong side and weakside. Typically teams with multiple driving playmakers want to force opponents to overload strong side so they can kick weakside and attack with advantage. Minnesota does this with Ant and Randle, Clippers with Kawhi/Harden, Luka teams do it with Kyrie/Lebron/Brunson/Dinwiddie etc. It's the best way to leverage having a second attacker.

In this configuration of Shai-ball, J.Dub needs to hit more open 3s. He almost never gets to attack with advantage, because Shai causes teams to crowd the paint. That's why we see whole games from J.Dub where it's a simple matter of: how many open 3s did he hit, and how many tough midrangers did he knock down. He's not getting into the paint in the half-court much with this offensive set up.

J.Dub's best stretches this postseason have come with Shai on the bench. In 89 minutes, it's actually been OKC's best stretches (+20.7 net rating with a whopping 125 Ortg).

Right now, OKC isn't set up for both these players to succeed at the same time, and I think it's limiting their offensive ceiling a bit in these playoffs. If you're going to use Shai like he's Rockets Harden, you might as surround him with shooters and spam him. Right now OKC is filled with high-iq tough drivers, but their offense isn't creating good opportunities for that.

[JustBuzzin]

Feels like Chet should be the 2nd option.

I think this is an important question for OKC. Between J.Dub and Chet, do they have a star second option on offense? Or can they collectively do the job of a 2nd and 3rd option on any given night?

Both players are amongst the best defenders at their positions, so they're hella valuable regardless. The problem on offense is that both these dudes want to drive the basketball, and Shai collapses the defense into the paint. It's a pretty simple problem. Shai can set up open shooters, but J.Dub isn't a great open shooter. Defenses don't give him a hard close out because they know he doesn't love to jack threes.

I'm just higher on Chet as a talent. People forget he was viewed as the sidekick for Shai before the injury. Seems like JDub took advantage of his injury and ever since Chet came back he's been in that 3rd option role. I feel he can be much more than 3rd fiddle.

Remember those Wemby vs Chet rookie debates?

Chet needs a bigger role imo.

[cupcakesnake]

Man if he was slight more athletic he’d be better. He seems to lack something

Yeah. His vertical athleticism is good (elevation on jumper and pop around the rim), but his first step is pretty slow. You can survive not having a great first step as a driver, but you have to play more bully ball (Brunson, Luka).

[cupcakesnake]

OKC is going to have some massive problems if their second option keeps laying eggs like this and demands a max.

The Thunder might need to start seriously thinking about consolidating their talent. Maybe make a run for Giannis.

They should be doing that either way. Pack Chet and Williams and get Giannis. Instant rings.

I see a lot of people talking about trading young guys for Giannis (Flagg for example), but I would worry that Giannis' game is all about athletic advantage and he's headed into his age 31 season. Maybe Giannis makes adjustments to extend his MVP-level prime, but there's also a chance Giannis falls off dramatically in a couple years.

OKC is trying to build a decade long contender, so I don't love them turning that into a 2 year window.

[KGDirkTD_Fan]

This is kind of the risk of a really good young team getting too good too fast where their playoff experience hasn't caught up yet.

Kind of unpopular but if there is a genuine desire for a title run they should have done more to get older vets into this team, I get everyone wants to give young players time to develop and play to their potential but if you're managing this team, it's not very long until you get struck into the apron ranges paying these guys big bucks without the post-season results. They did good getting Chet some help with Hartenstein and then the perimeter defense with Caruso but most of this team is their young core having to go through the grind of playing high level post season basketball having to make all the mistakes they would have to make.

I get why you don't touch a 60+ win team but your window is much smaller once you start paying guys max contacts...ask Denver how hard that's been on them.

[magee]

I've posted this at least twice before, but it begs repeating: Presti and OKC should've moved hell and earth to acquire Karl Anthony-Towns instead of signing Josh Hartenstein.

I have zero idea if Minnesota would've taken what OKC was giving (Giddey and picks upon picks), but Towns would've fit in OKC like a hand in glove.

When did Josh Hart and Isaiah Hartenstein have a baby? Haha.

[flranger]

Max? Debatable but I can see the majority thinking it is fine, I have no issue

SuperMax if he qualifies for All-NBA? ugh...that really puts OKC in a difficult long term position and would greatly reduce his trade value

That extra 5% has a huge impact on team/asset building long term

[Jamaaliver]

Spoiler:

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[Effigy]

Teams need to start standing up to these players. Just because they're eligible for the super max doesn't mean you have to give it to them. And OKC feels like that team to me. I'd just make it clear that he isn't getting that contract. If they trade him before he signs, he can't make that much right? He makes way less? So offer him a little more than he'd get if they traded him. Because if he insists on a super max, they should trade him and then he can't get it anyway. And OKC is I think exactly the team that can trade him and be ok. They'll get good pieces back. They could target someone like Deni in Portland who's signed to a very cap friendly deal, or a similar player on a friendly contract, that lets them keep their team together and not have to blow it up when all the contract extensions start hitting.