cgf wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:cgf wrote:
I’ll try to remember to respond when I get home. But Randle absolutely dominated Siakam as a Knick. I know Siakam had the one big game but that’s just one game.
Randle averaged 23.2/11.1/4.4 61TS vs Siakam since he became a Knick
Siakam averaged 23.2/7.4/4.9 55TS in the same span
I don’t know how that is “absolutely dominated”
Thank you, so even including the season before Thibs got here, Julius gave us 4 more rebounds on 6% better TS. That's big enough even without removing the Fizdale disaster, which I explicitly excluded from my initial claim because Fiz enabled all of Julius' worst qualities and Thibs really transformed him once he got his hands on the big fella.
But we can go through each h2h matchups as well if you like...IIRC from the last time I performed this exercise with a Raptors fan, Siakam had the better game twice, with Julius taking every other matchup.
Siakam is a better fit for a team that moves the ball like Indy and is better off the ball, but he's not as much of a force with the ball as Randle and h2h, he just doesn't have the strength to keep Julius from the rim without help...help that Randle has gotten very good at beating with the pass.
Siakam isn't a particularly strong post up defender, and it should be assumed that the strong-bodied Randle is a bad matchup for Siakam. Siakam's defensive value lies more in his versatility. He's not lunchmeat in almost any matchup, he can protect the rim a little, and he's in general just a very high-motor player in most situations. Siakam is not an all-defense calibre forward, but he's definitely a "good" defensive forward. Siakam also has way better length than Randle does.
Siakam's hustling defense is almost definitely his biggest advantage over Randle. Not head to head, but just in terms of who is a better player. Randle can only do one thing on defense: move his meet and leverage his strength in man-to-man matchups. It was useful against LA and Golden State where he was perfectly fine against the bully ball of Lebron, Luka, and Butler. Finch schemes to keep Randle active and on the ball, because put him off the ball and he just falls asleep and/or doesn't care. The scheme has improved around Randle, but he's a big negative for team defense still. Watching him sprint on offense in transition, but then never ever turn on those jets to run back on defense, has been a constant aggravation with him. Even in the playoffs, he just gives up layups in transition all the time.
I remember way back in the day, when Randle was struggling in New York, and Siakam had just looked awful against Boston in the playoffs, I thought Toronto should try to pair the 2 together. Both looked like over-tasked 2nd options, but I thought the combo of Randle's brute force rim pressure, Siakam's crafty opportunistic scoring, and both of their playmaking might combine to create an impactful facsimile of a star. At this point, Randle's value was really low, and Toronto fans scoffed at me for the suggestion. Right after this, the Randle train finally got out of the station in New York and he made all-NBA, basically taking Siakam's spot from the year before.
Now they're both doing their thing on fun teams and really excelling as 2nd options. They're also both better as shooters and decision makers. Fundamentally their strengths are still the same. Randle's main value is rim pressure + playmaking. Siakam's main value lies in his versatility as a scorer/playmaker who can find the cracks in your defense and hurt you in a million ways. Randle is a crack creator, Siakam is a crack exploiter. Siakam has better all-around skills. Both are solid secondary playmakers.
