More physically gifted: 21 year old Wemby or 21 year old LeBron

[IAMZOOTED2]

Are we counting the nervous system as a gift? How about BBIQ? Is your brain not part of this discussion then?

[The4thHorseman]

did lebron make it look this easy though omg it looks way way too easy for wemby and hes not even in his prime

At that height, it's suppose to look easy especially on the inside at both ends of the court. He's just so incredibly coordinated and agile it's just crazy to actually see someone that size do it, let alone so smoothly.

Just like blocked shots, yeah they're great but you also have to remember, at that size he's somewhat expected to have at least 3+ a game. Making it look easy. Like others have said, we'll just have to see if Vic can provide some consistency but certainly not expecting Wednesday nights performance consistency.

[michaelm]

Of course shooting and handling are part of the physical gift equation. You shoot with the mechanics of your body. If you have stiff hips, stiff hands, and you can't smoothly bring the ball up, then you are not going to able to shoot consistently. And with ball handling, that takes hand eye coordination. It is like pitcher throwing a fast ball. Yes, you need strength, but you also need great vision. Many top level baseball players and golf players have great vision. Shaq just doesn't have the mobility as Wemby. Can you see Shaq taking a step back three after a behind the back dribble like Wemby? No.

It is like saying punching hard in MMA is not about physical attributes, because you can learn how to punch. Of course it is. I actually done a lot of boxing myself years ago, and some guys just hit harder others. It is not a training thing. Some guys just have heavy hands.

I can go to the gym and improve my handles. Will I ever handle the ball like Kobe? Or Iverson? Or Irving? Hell no. In order to dribble at a high level, you need great hand-eye coordination, strength, agility, and explosiveness. I don't have any of those in great level.

I don't think Shaq has the agility of Wemby to do the moves that he is doing. I don't think he has the mechanical smoothness of Wemby to hit a three point shot in a game consistently, no matter how much he trains.

I dont agree with your definition at all.

the punching comparision is just not it. Ask any boxer/fighter and they will tell you technique is all that matters. And you can improve your technique.
How hard you hit in a boxing or mma match just has so many variables. Timing, momentuum of opponent, precision.. thats what defines how hard a shot in a fight is. It has very little to do with being gifted physically.

i dont know.. "physical gift". the term in itself should answer that to be honest. because a gift is a gift, that you have 0 influence on.

handling the ball, shooting the ball, passing the ball are all skills that you can learn and improve on. does that mean you will be able to handle the ball like kyrie? for sure not, because you dont have that talent.

being talented and being gifted is not neccessarily the same.

So anyone can shoot like Steph Curry if they practise hard enough ?.

I am sure he has put the work in, but he has ungodly hand eye coordination at the base of his shooting ability.

[Ben-N1ce]

Wemby really is the guy you used to make in NBA Live before bigs shot 3's and laugh about.

[FollowTheSound]

How is this even a question?!

It’s obviously the 7’5+ guy with the mobility of a guard/forward. It literally has never been seen before and unlikely to be seen again. LeBron is more talented but guys like Shawn Kemp, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Johnson etc are at least within the realm physically. No one was/is moving like Vic.

Tbh if we’re purely talking about being physically gifted (skill aside), Shaq vs Wemby is more interesting.

Nah, Wemby all the way. Shaq's physical gifts made him special in one era of basketball. But Wemby's physical gifts would have allowed him to succeed in any era. I would argue Lebron is more physically gifted as well. He is the only one out of the 3 that has proven he can dominate in multiple eras.

Idk I think you’re blurring skill level and Shaq’s own lack of commitment to his body in that. We’re purely talking physical attributes. It’s crazy how mobile Shaq was for a guy as big & insanely powerful as he was.

Let’s say for instance someone had Shaq’s body but could shoot & had a handle, idk how anyone would stop that…or better yet…

If each of their body types had the exact same skill level - I don’t see how it wouldn’t be between Shaq and Wemby.



Edit: Let me remind you Embiid who is not as agile, couldn't jump as high and also not as strong as Shaq but is roughly the same size absolutely worked Wemby for 70 points....

Watch on YouTube

Now imagine someone that big and skilled was also faster, stronger and jumped higher - that's the point.

Only scored 13 on wemby that game...

[NoStatsGuy]

Of course shooting and handling are part of the physical gift equation. You shoot with the mechanics of your body. If you have stiff hips, stiff hands, and you can't smoothly bring the ball up, then you are not going to able to shoot consistently. And with ball handling, that takes hand eye coordination. It is like pitcher throwing a fast ball. Yes, you need strength, but you also need great vision. Many top level baseball players and golf players have great vision. Shaq just doesn't have the mobility as Wemby. Can you see Shaq taking a step back three after a behind the back dribble like Wemby? No.

It is like saying punching hard in MMA is not about physical attributes, because you can learn how to punch. Of course it is. I actually done a lot of boxing myself years ago, and some guys just hit harder others. It is not a training thing. Some guys just have heavy hands.

I can go to the gym and improve my handles. Will I ever handle the ball like Kobe? Or Iverson? Or Irving? Hell no. In order to dribble at a high level, you need great hand-eye coordination, strength, agility, and explosiveness. I don't have any of those in great level.

I don't think Shaq has the agility of Wemby to do the moves that he is doing. I don't think he has the mechanical smoothness of Wemby to hit a three point shot in a game consistently, no matter how much he trains.

I dont agree with your definition at all.

the punching comparision is just not it. Ask any boxer/fighter and they will tell you technique is all that matters. And you can improve your technique.
How hard you hit in a boxing or mma match just has so many variables. Timing, momentuum of opponent, precision.. thats what defines how hard a shot in a fight is. It has very little to do with being gifted physically.

i dont know.. "physical gift". the term in itself should answer that to be honest. because a gift is a gift, that you have 0 influence on.

handling the ball, shooting the ball, passing the ball are all skills that you can learn and improve on. does that mean you will be able to handle the ball like kyrie? for sure not, because you dont have that talent.

being talented and being gifted is not neccessarily the same.

So anyone can shoot like Steph Curry if they practise hard enough ?.

I am sure he has put the work in, but he has ungodly hand eye coordination at the base of his shooting ability.

no like i said with kyrie. just because you can practice it, that doesnt mean you can reach those levels.

i think you mistake being talented with being gifted. if you have talent for shooting and ballhandling your ceiling is much higher when you put in the work. nothing you can do about your size, wingspan, etc.

[Calvin Klein]

It's Wemby if he can stay healthy. Part of Lebron's "gift" is never being injured until very late in his career. And being able to play for so long at high level

[Mirotic12]

Of course it's Wemby.

[Jailblazers7]

I think it was Arenas but some player was attributing Lebron’s durability to the fact that he never has to redline. He was always able to play below max effort and still dominate because his athletic gifts were so superior to everyone else.

I think the durability piece is the variable for this question. If Wemby is able to play consistently at this level without injury then he’s the answer. However, if he struggles to stay healthy then the answer is Lebron because LeBron’s physical gifts came with zero downsides.

[Mirotic12]

WTF? How can anyone vote LeBron here, Victor is most physically gifted player ever, and the margin between him and whoever is second place is huge. This is not even a debate, its Victor by astronomical margins.

What made LeBron special was his skill and IQ in that body, but the body abilities itself we have seen in many players. Theres never been anyone even close to what Victor is physically, and probably never will be.

I understand durability concerns, but it is more assumption. People just do not believe this kind of insane physical athlete can stay healthy, but it is assumption, so far Victor had a bloodcloth, but no actual serious injuries. I get LeBrons durability is unprecedented, but Victor has such a huge lead everywhere else, he just needs average durability and he clears this with ease.

I don't think it's a huge difference between Wemby and Kareem and Wilt. Advantage to Wemby, but it's definitely not a huge difference. Just a little bit probably.

Physically, Wemby is basically a slightly taller, weaker version of Kareem.

[Lakers In 5]

There is one big aspect to being ''physically gifted'' people seem to be forgetting about: availability. Or rather the ability to avoid injury. Up until their age 22 season, LeBron played 232 out of a possible 240 games (playoffs notwithstanding) averaging 41.5 minutes, whereas Wembanyama played 113 out of a possible 160 games, averaging 31.1 minutes. LeBron (9871) played more than double the amount of minutes Wembanyama (3633) did, almost tripling it even. It took LeBron 10 seasons(!) to miss the same amount of games as Wembanyama in 2. That was his second year in Miami, to put things in perspective.

I'll take the guy running up and down the court for 75 games a season in all but 6 minutes in a game, jumping over everybody, and somehow remaining injury free for 10 years straight as the one being more physically gifted if you don't mind.

[Lakers In 5]

It's Wemby if he can stay healthy. Part of Lebron's "gift" is never being injured until very late in his career. And being able to play for so long at high level

Bingo. Ignoring this feat is the same ridiculous line of thought people have when discussing Jokic' athleticism, or rather lack thereof. Somehow people have concluded athleticism equals leaping ability or speed, completely ignoring stamina. Jokic is playing 38 minutes a game, running up and down the court carrying 300 pounds with him, constantly fighting for position and getting held, scratched and elbowed along the way and still somehow averaging a 30 point triple-double. That man is athletic as hell. Unless people wish to argue that marathon runners, unlike 100m sprinters, aren't athletes of course.

LeBron's health is the singular most impressive physical thing in sports I can ever remember, rivaled only by Jerry Rice.

[bonita_the_frog]

I never trust 7 foot 3+ people, so the jury is still out.

[a8bil]

The uber athlete would have Wemby's hand-eye coordination and Lebron's physique.

[a8bil]

I'm a bit surprised by the takes in this thread that downplay lebron's physical attributes. There may be a handful of players that measure up to Lebron size-wise, but none have had his athleticism, and I've been watching the NBA/ABA since the late 1960s. Think of the play where he ran down and blocked Iguodala's shot in the 2016 Finals. That play arguably won the Cavs the championship. I can think of only one player with the ability to make that play. Wemby certainly could not. Lebron imposes his will on games, despite not being a great shooter. In that regard, he's a bit like Shaq...just able to physically overwhelm everyone else on the floor.

[PistolPeteJR]

It's definitely Wemby. There are been comparable physiques to LeBron's in the league. What sets him apart is the combination of that gift, his IQ and hard work ethic.

Wemby's athletic frame is completely unheard of.

[Old_Blue]

Wemby, because he has alien like physical tools and plays with a love of the game. In contrast, Bron plays with bitterness, like he just underwent a sour lemonade enema.

[Mephariel]

Of course shooting and handling are part of the physical gift equation. You shoot with the mechanics of your body. If you have stiff hips, stiff hands, and you can't smoothly bring the ball up, then you are not going to able to shoot consistently. And with ball handling, that takes hand eye coordination. It is like pitcher throwing a fast ball. Yes, you need strength, but you also need great vision. Many top level baseball players and golf players have great vision. Shaq just doesn't have the mobility as Wemby. Can you see Shaq taking a step back three after a behind the back dribble like Wemby? No.

It is like saying punching hard in MMA is not about physical attributes, because you can learn how to punch. Of course it is. I actually done a lot of boxing myself years ago, and some guys just hit harder others. It is not a training thing. Some guys just have heavy hands.

I can go to the gym and improve my handles. Will I ever handle the ball like Kobe? Or Iverson? Or Irving? Hell no. In order to dribble at a high level, you need great hand-eye coordination, strength, agility, and explosiveness. I don't have any of those in great level.

I don't think Shaq has the agility of Wemby to do the moves that he is doing. I don't think he has the mechanical smoothness of Wemby to hit a three point shot in a game consistently, no matter how much he trains.

I dont agree with your definition at all.

the punching comparision is just not it. Ask any boxer/fighter and they will tell you technique is all that matters. And you can improve your technique.
How hard you hit in a boxing or mma match just has so many variables. Timing, momentuum of opponent, precision.. thats what defines how hard a shot in a fight is. It has very little to do with being gifted physically.

i dont know.. "physical gift". the term in itself should answer that to be honest. because a gift is a gift, that you have 0 influence on.

handling the ball, shooting the ball, passing the ball are all skills that you can learn and improve on. does that mean you will be able to handle the ball like kyrie? for sure not, because you dont have that talent.

being talented and being gifted is not neccessarily the same.

You can have your opinion, but you can also be just wrong. In this case you are. I boxed for a few years myself and I follow boxing and MMA for years. Nobody will agree with you that genetics have no factor in how hard you punch. Yes, timing matters. Technique matters. So does genetics. Some boxers like Amir Khan had fast, accurate punching techniques, but moderate power at best.

Another example is running. Everyone learn how to run right? But can you run as fast as Bolt? Just because you can spend hours in the gym learning and getting better doesn't mean there is no genetic component to it. Elite runners have explosive fast twitch muscle, sustained VO2 max, etc. Read the book The Sports Gene and you will understand how much of sports is actually genetic.

There is more to "physically gifted" than muscles and wingspan. There is dexterity, flexibility, vision, etc. All of those are required to play basketball at a high level.

[sisibilio]

WTF? How can anyone vote LeBron here, Victor is most physically gifted player ever, and the margin between him and whoever is second place is huge. This is not even a debate, its Victor by astronomical margins.

What made LeBron special was his skill and IQ in that body, but the body abilities itself we have seen in many players. Theres never been anyone even close to what Victor is physically, and probably never will be.

I understand durability concerns, but it is more assumption. People just do not believe this kind of insane physical athlete can stay healthy, but it is assumption, so far Victor had a bloodcloth, but no actual serious injuries. I get LeBrons durability is unprecedented, but Victor has such a huge lead everywhere else, he just needs average durability and he clears this with ease.

I don't think it's a huge difference between Wemby and Kareem and Wilt. Advantage to Wemby, but it's definitely not a huge difference. Just a little bit probably.

Physically, Wemby is basically a slightly taller, weaker version of Kareem.

He's signicantly longer, more agile, with much better body control and coordination. There is a huge difference indeed.

[JN61]

Hard to say. It took Lebron years to understand the game. But I've no doubt he would be padding some serious stats on this era as a young boy.