Is Wembanyamas impact now similar to Wilt?

[kcktiny]

that's why there's a myth of Sampson being an all-time great talent ruined by the injuries

he was nowhere near level of the all-time greats even in similar moments of their careers

Oh no?

At the age of 23 (start of a season, age of Sampson as a rookie) only 6 players in NBA history averaged 20+ pts/g, 11+ reb/g, and 2+ bs/g in that season - McAdoo, Shaq, Duncan, Olajuwon, Anthony Davis, and Ralph Sampson.

That should put into perspective what he did as a rookie.

After that 1983-84 rookie season of his everyone was thinking (out loud) what an incredible career this kid was going to have.

His second season he scored even better, 22 pts/g, played 82 games and 3000+ minutes, with his rebounding and shot blocking a bit worse than his rookie season playing next to Olajuwon.

And while his stats in 1985-86 were worse still, the fact is that at that time from the ages of 23-25 he was just 1 of 2 players in league history in that age range to amass 5000+ pts, 2500+ rebs, and 400+ blocks, the other being McAdoo. Even today only 4 players did this ages 23-25 - McAdoo, Sampson, Olajuwon, and Duncan. Then Houston beat the Lakers in the WCFs 4-1 and lost in the Finals to Boston 4-2.

Everyone in 1986 was talking about this Rockets team as the team of the future, just like people were talking about Shaq and Penny being the future after they lost in the Finals to the Bulls in 1995.

while he was definitely a great player, he just wasn't on the level of other all-time great big men

That clearly is not what people were saying after his first two seasons in the league.

In this sense, he's very overrated.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

His first season in the league he was a unanimous ROY. His second season in the league he was the all-star game MVP and in the regular season was the leading scorer on the Rockets. Then in 1985-86 Houston (W-L 51-31) upsets the Lakers (W-L 62-20) in the WCFs 4-1 and took Boston (W-L 67-15, best in the league) to 6 games before losing the Finals.

At that time the consensus was the sky was the limit for the Rockets, with both Olajuwon and Sampson being the new projected faces of the league (Jordan had played just one season by this time).

Here's the stats for Sampson and Wembanyama after their first two seasons in the league:

Sampson - 35 min/g, 21.5 pts/g, 10.8 reb/g, 2.2 bs/g
Wemby - 31 min/g, 22.5 pts/g, 10.8 reb/g, 3.7 bs/g

Wemby's stats are better but Sampson's were very good.

2025-26 is Wemby's 3rd season. If he gets injured in his 4th season and has his career derailed like Sampson I can just imagine what you'll be saying 40 years from know, just like what you are saying about Sampson now - very overrated.

Sampson was more of a paper tiger. Wemby is the Real Deal.

Yep - another after-the-fact expert.

Sampson was an incredible prospect and was definitely going to do big things in the NBA, had health not gotten in the way.

This is in fact the truth.

I don't think Sampson was on the same level of Wemby, physicall or skill-wise. Wemby looks even bigger that Sampson now and has way longer arms.. He's faster, more fluid, lighter on his feet, quicker.

This is exactly the things people were saying about Sampson in the 80s. The NBA had never seen a 7-4 player (or whatever his true height was) that was as fast, as fluid, as light on his feet as Sampson, and that could dribble the ball and make moves off the dribble.

[70sFan]

Not that they necessarily play the game the same way, but both have such physical advantages over their competition that you'd almost want to change the games rules just for them. Wilt, being a 7'1" super-athlete in the early 1960s, and Wembanyama, at 7'5" in today's league and having guard like skills, are both massive physical outliers compared to their competition.

I think Wilt is as far back as we have to go for a proper comparison to Wemby.

So I can't not note that Wilt's impact wasn't the best of his own era, Russell's was.

To your question, that means it's really not that hard for Wemby to top Wilt's impact - it's not some impossible thing we've never seen before or since - and so long as Wemby stays healthy, it's probably more a question of when Wemby tops Wilt's impact rather if.

And the answer to When? may be "Now", but I'll let the season play out longer before making that assertion.

So, you genuinely believe that Wemby plays at top 10 all-time level right now? I think it's very far from a given that he'd ever reach Wilt in terms of impact, although it's not impossible.

[Effigy]

So I can't not note that Wilt's impact wasn't the best of his own era, Russell's was.

Baesd on what exactly?

To your question, that means it's really not that hard for Wemby to top Wilt's impact - it's not some impossible thing we've never seen before or since - and so long as Wemby stays healthy, it's probably more a question of when Wemby tops Wilt's impact rather if.

Honestly, this paragraph just makes it seem like you dont kow who Wilt was. Weve seen Wilts impact since? So weve seen a 100 point gane? Weve seen someone average 50 points a game? Weve seen a center lead the league in assists? (I know Jokic almost did it but Wikt DID do it)

Jokic and Wilt were both 2nd in apg, Wilt was first in total assists because Oscar played only 65 games that year, so yea, we've had a C do that too, though I get the technicality aspect, but that's not impact.

The question also becomes, are we talking about impact or statistics and statistical feats? A lot of what is being cited are statistics, does that necessarily mean impact was greater? Maybe, maybe not, people who watched both through their careers had differing opinions on that.

There’s no way you can look at what Wilt did and say it’s not hard to top his impact. It’s INCREDIBLY hard. Wilt is COMFORTABLY a top ten player of all time. Saying it’s not hard to top the impact of a top 10 all time player makes you look like you just stumbled upon a basketball forum.

[WillyJakkz]

Wemby is the modern version of Ralph Sampson.

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Just googled Ralph Sapson's stats... idk man

Here you go young sir, in the first min and change of this video you'll see him dribble with an around the back finish into a jumper. As well as some other things but keep in mind this is the time period where a coach would yell at tall guys for doing what he did and to pass the ball to the guard and get in the post but you'll see him still pulling up J after J in the midrange.

Even had a hook shot and casually blocking Kareem Skyhook which was unheard of lol but don't take my word for it you can see for yourself. It's an interesting vid and Google Houston Rockets '84 full games to actually see him play in real time thus me comparing Wemby to him. Enjoy!

Watch on YouTube

[Sane]

Can I just jump into this absurd Russell-Wilt debate?

Wilt can score 20 more points than Russell. Neither Bill Russell, nor Hakeem Olajuwon THE ACUTAL BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY, nor Wemby will ever achieve a 20ppg difference in defensive abilities vs an above average rim protector in Wilt. NEVER.

So please spare us the "but the secret invisible impact of Bill Russell which has nothing to do with being on superteams" narrative we've been hearing forever.

It's very simple:

Wilt is eiither the greatest ever or we don't know. It's mathematically impossible to prove he's not.
Hakeem is the best defensive player ever. Russell is second.
Wemby is going to end up the best defensive player and highest RECORDABLE impact player of all time (and predictably we won't be able to compare his stats with Wilt's)

[bonita_the_frog]

Giannis has the best combination of speed and power, except his career is trending the opposite direction of Wilt, as Giannis started off being known for defense, and now he's scoring huge and with surreal fg%, whereas Wilt scored biggest in the first half of his career and later on became more of a defensive specialist. And Wilt/Giannis both have good assists numbers (Giannis 6.5 assists last year, and 7.2 assists this season so far).
As for impact, at least big man impact, its got to be Shaq.

[Sign5]

His impact is devastating but still not up to snuff as Wilt or even Shaq in his prime imho.

[indiegrind]

Y'all be having some wild takes when talking old school players.

No player in the 7ft plus category has been anywhere near as skilled as Wemby.

Ralph Sampson? Come on.

Wilt is the only comparison for his dominance and eye popping stats, he was bigger and stronger and more athletic than everyone, and was very skilled, but not this skilled. Mix Wilt and KD and Hakeem and you might get close.

A few years ago, we wouldn't have believed Wemby was even possible.

[og15]

Baesd on what exactly?



Honestly, this paragraph just makes it seem like you dont kow who Wilt was. Weve seen Wilts impact since? So weve seen a 100 point gane? Weve seen someone average 50 points a game? Weve seen a center lead the league in assists? (I know Jokic almost did it but Wikt DID do it)

Jokic and Wilt were both 2nd in apg, Wilt was first in total assists because Oscar played only 65 games that year, so yea, we've had a C do that too, though I get the technicality aspect, but that's not impact.

The question also becomes, are we talking about impact or statistics and statistical feats? A lot of what is being cited are statistics, does that necessarily mean impact was greater? Maybe, maybe not, people who watched both through their careers had differing opinions on that.

There’s no way you can look at what Wilt did and say it’s not hard to top his impact. It’s INCREDIBLY hard. Wilt is COMFORTABLY a top ten player of all time. Saying it’s not hard to top the impact of a top 10 all time player makes you look like you just stumbled upon a basketball forum.

Ah, I see, I was looking more at the Wilt vs Russell impact argument and whether it is impossible to beat Wilt's impact.

[hauntedcomputer]

Wilt can score 20 more points than Russell. Neither Bill Russell, nor Hakeem Olajuwon THE ACUTAL BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY, nor Wemby will ever achieve a 20ppg difference in defensive abilities vs an above average rim protector in Wilt. NEVER.

Bill Russell is the greatest defensive player ever and an arguable GOAT.

If you really look at Russell's teammates in isolation, they were made by Russell, they didn't make Russell. The Celtics dynasty was actually two totally separate teams. It was the Russell dynasty.

But Wemby has a chance to combine Russell, Wilt, Kareem, and Hakeem into one career.

[Pharaoh]

10 years from now - health permitting - all you kids will be talking about Wemby as the GOAT.

Same ways young ones talk about LeBron today.

Y'all will argue with each other over every little detail, every aspect

For those of us you were alive to see Mike in his prime - you can't touch that.

It's not about stats, it's not about rings (Bill says hello) it's about how you feel.

Old fans know what greatness looks like. And it's not LeBron. Whatever that is he isn't him. And at heart you all know it.

Wemby? Might actually do it.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

[brackdan70]

Check back when Wemby is playing every minute and averaging 40/20 and leading his team to deep playoff runs.
The potential is certainly there and Wemby is amazing. He is nothing like Wilt or Russell as far as impact yet.

[AdamSSSlither]

i absolutely love watching wembanyama play bball but .....wake me up when he
averages 50 points/25 rebounds for a season.
wins 7 scoring titles,
11 rebound titles
4-mvp's
finals mvp
average 30/22 for a career

dont forget to also average 45 minutes a game.....over 14 seasons.

while wembanyama is undoubtedly unique and amazing......we have never seen anyone like wilt chamberlain and we never will again.

[bbms]

Not that they necessarily play the game the same way, but both have such physical advantages over their competition that you'd almost want to change the games rules just for them. Wilt, being a 7'1" super-athlete in the early 1960s, and Wembanyama, at 7'5" in today's league and having guard like skills, are both massive physical outliers compared to their competition.

I think Wilt is as far back as we have to go for a proper comparison to Wemby.

So I can't not note that Wilt's impact wasn't the best of his own era, Russell's was.

To your question, that means it's really not that hard for Wemby to top Wilt's impact - it's not some impossible thing we've never seen before or since - and so long as Wemby stays healthy, it's probably more a question of when Wemby tops Wilt's impact rather if.

And the answer to When? may be "Now", but I'll let the season play out longer before making that assertion.

Per engelmann via early xrapm, Wemby impact isnt the biggest in the NBA either

[Sane]

Wilt can score 20 more points than Russell. Neither Bill Russell, nor Hakeem Olajuwon THE ACUTAL BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY, nor Wemby will ever achieve a 20ppg difference in defensive abilities vs an above average rim protector in Wilt. NEVER.

Bill Russell is the greatest defensive player ever and an arguable GOAT.

If you really look at Russell's teammates in isolation, they were made by Russell, they didn't make Russell. The Celtics dynasty was actually two totally separate teams. It was the Russell dynasty.

But Wemby has a chance to combine Russell, Wilt, Kareem, and Hakeem into one career.

You can make all the excuses you like, break it into multiple dynasties whatever, but better teammates is a better situation.

Everyone on earth who has ever played basketball knows that you can do better if you have better teammates. There's no one in the world who thinks it doesn't matter if you have lesser teammates.

Wilt, Hakeem and Wemby's supporting casts combined probably couldn't match up to Russell's teammates. Russell's peak cannot match their peaks.

Honestly I have no issue with Russell it's just not reasonable anymore to put him in the category with them.

[bonita_the_frog]

Giannis averaging 34.2 points, 13.4 rebounds, 7.2 assists, .684 field, .625 threes, 32.6 minutes, is the standard by which basketball excellent is measured.

[ryan in Maine]

I feel like, as a player, Wembanyama should unite the Wilt Russell factions.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

I strongly reject the claim that Wilt was a loser simply because he often lost to the guy with the better team.

Swap their rosters, and the results flip. Everyone loves to call basketball a “team sport,” but that truth conveniently disappears when it’s time to give credit—or assign blame.

The real question is why isn't that obvious to everyone? sad, really....

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

I strongly reject the claim that Wilt was a loser simply because he often lost to the guy with the better team.

Swap their rosters, and the results flip. Everyone loves to call basketball a “team sport,” but that truth conveniently disappears when it’s time to give credit—or assign blame.

I agree, but thats what people who were there used to say. I am not saying I would say that, but Basketball is also a sport where Superstar player often decides winner and loser, and I wont write off Russells wins on him just having better teammates

actually, it's also often a sport where a 7th or 8th man on one team makes a key steal or block or stop or bucket in the 1st or 2nd (or any) quarter on his counterpart that decides a close game much later. Actually, it's a combo of both. That's why it's a team sport. I don't write Russell off either. I saw him play. I'd put him in the top 10 or 12 centers ever.

[Warspite]

Low road take.

He played with Akeem "before the H" Olajuwon after his rookie year who practically averaged identical numbers to Sampson's rookie yr so of course his stats and impact will reflect differently (which is something you absolutely didn't account for).

That's something a true "master" of basketball would know.

I don't think playing with Hakeem contributed to Sampson being a streaky shooter or not being a dominant defensive player. Also, there's a reason why Hakeem (while being 2-3 years younger) was a leader of that Rockets team. Sampson was a fantastic prospect, indeed his career was cut short because of injuries and playing-style wise he was unparalleled for his era - that's why there's a myth of Sampson being an all-time great talent ruined by the injuries. In reality, as a 24/25yo, while he was definitely a great player, he just wasn't on the level of other all-time great big men. So it's hard to put him in this convo besides him being perhaps this archetype of a unicorn (extremely tall big man with all-round skills). But Wemby is already better than he ever was.

Im not so sure Wemby will have a career that much better than Sampsons that will overcome Sampsons 2 biggest handicaps: 80s medicine and 80s competition. Put Wemby in 1985 and he like Sampson is a border line all star player and his career is going to be less than 300 games. If we bring Sampson to today he gets to play against 6'6" centers or 200lb 7 footers. He is going to awe struck so many of todays fans who think the world began after Covid.