The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP.

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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#41 » by The Servant » Mon Nov 3, 2025 2:33 pm

52-12-7 wrote:NBA is a ruined product. From players artificially creating super teams, not giving a rats ass about all-star games, players protecting their FG% to the point where it has gotten so bad that the league had to change the rules to encourage end of quarter heaves which is a complete joke... and all these lax rules that only promotes offense. Nevermind the fact that the league tried to sweep Kawhi scandal under the rug, and the latest gambling scandals, this is a product that only cares about making money. I honestly don't know what can save this game.


Really does not feel like a sport anymore. I know its marketed as entertainment but it is at the half way point currently between the WWE and the other big sports leagues.

They need to bring it in line with the 2000s-2010s era. God I feel like an old head saying that in 2025.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#42 » by DavidSterned » Mon Nov 3, 2025 3:07 pm

The Servant wrote:
52-12-7 wrote:NBA is a ruined product. From players artificially creating super teams, not giving a rats ass about all-star games, players protecting their FG% to the point where it has gotten so bad that the league had to change the rules to encourage end of quarter heaves which is a complete joke... and all these lax rules that only promotes offense. Nevermind the fact that the league tried to sweep Kawhi scandal under the rug, and the latest gambling scandals, this is a product that only cares about making money. I honestly don't know what can save this game.


Really does not feel like a sport anymore. I know its marketed as entertainment but it is at the half way point currently between the WWE and the other big sports leagues.

They need to bring it in line with the 2000s-2010s era. God I feel like an old head saying that in 2025.


Baseball just had an epic postseason and I think has firmly reestablished itself as the 2nd most popular league. NBA isn't catching up anytime soon.

With the way things are trending I wouldn't be surprised to see the NHL and MLS overtake the NBA at some point in the next decade. The quality of the product is just so bad and seems to literally get worse every passing year under its current "leadership".

Shame too because for all of his faults, Stern at least left the league with it still being a fairly compelling product in the early 2010s.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#43 » by Wingy » Mon Nov 3, 2025 3:08 pm

There needs to be a rule change to eliminate the scourge that is dribbling.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#44 » by Black Jack » Mon Nov 3, 2025 4:31 pm

Just get rid of dribbling and let players carry the ball.

Joking...I think.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#45 » by cupcakesnake » Mon Nov 3, 2025 4:54 pm

You can never really put things back in the box once you've let them out, but I do think they could legislate out moves that exploit the gather step rule a bit more. Keep the gather step, but just let refs blow the whistle when guys figure out how to take 2-3 steps during the gather. Just call it a carry or something.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#46 » by SkyBill40 » Mon Nov 3, 2025 4:59 pm

The enforcement, or lack thereof, pertaining to the existing rules is the real problem here.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#47 » by floppymoose » Mon Nov 3, 2025 7:07 pm

og15 wrote:The criticism you could have is lifting the pivot foot

that's what i mean. Lifting the pivot foot while the other foot is still down is, to me, switching the pivot foot. I get it that the rules are using different terminology.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#48 » by og15 » Mon Nov 3, 2025 8:09 pm

floppymoose wrote:
og15 wrote:The criticism you could have is lifting the pivot foot

that's what i mean. Lifting the pivot foot while the other foot is still down is, to me, switching the pivot foot. I get it that the rules are using different terminology.


I see, I see, I think it became common usage for some, but is a bit of a misunderstanding of pivot foot definition. Since the idea of a pivot foot is that you are pivoting around it, when a player does a one leg step through, they don't now pivot on the non pivot foot, because they jump and shoot or pas.

It can't actually be called switching pivot foot, though I understand it is called that by people. If they started moving around in circles (pivoting)with their former pivot foot, that would be switching pivot, but that would also get called as a travel anyways as the foot has now come down before shooting or passing.

The problem we run into if we try to make that rule is that there are many situations we don't even think about where players are jumping off their non pivot foot:

Layups, running jumpshots, post up fadeaways, and even on the two footed step through that we might want to defend, if you watch in slow motion, on many, the pivot foot lifts up before the non pivot foot.

So making a blanket rule obviously wouldn't work, that leaves us with saying that the NBA, College, FIBA, WNBA, etc should make a very specific rule to just the step through, which would be quite odd to do.

It would be:
A player can lift their pivot foot to shoot or pass, EXCEPT for when doing a more pronounced one foot step through, where it is more clearly evident that the pivot foot came off the ground before the non pivot foot.

That sounds like a pretty bad rule and very odd to target a specific usage of the pivot foot while allowing all others.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#49 » by JimmyFromNz » Mon Nov 3, 2025 8:25 pm

Rules and their interpretations are changed season to season but whether there's incentive in head office or from the players association is another question.

In a perfect world, a simple solution is just going to FIBA travel rules - yah know the official rules of basketball. We don't need to create even more iterations of a new travel rule.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#50 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Nov 3, 2025 9:04 pm

Black Jack wrote:Just get rid of dribbling and let players carry the ball.

Joking...I think.


That would be legit hilarious to watch in a real NBA exhibition game.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#51 » by Inspektor1312 » Mon Nov 3, 2025 11:17 pm

I agree, but it's never going to happen.
It's much easier to score this way, meaning more highlights, more records broken and more revenue for the league. Thankfully they change it up a bit in the playoffs.

Regular season has been meaningless for a long time (which the NBA itself recognized when they introduced the NBA Cup).

And this is all a huge shame as the players have never been better, they could definitely adapt to real basketball. There just aren't any incentives for it. Attention spans are getting shorter, kids just wanna see stepback threes and poster dunks after 6 steps and 6 carries.

At least we can still go to a basketball court with our friends and play ball how we like it.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#52 » by floppymoose » Mon Nov 3, 2025 11:32 pm

Inspektor1312 wrote:I agree, but it's never going to happen.
It's much easier to score this way, meaning more highlights, more records broken and more revenue for the league. Thankfully they change it up a bit in the playoffs.


I have a theory that more scoring isn't actually what the crowd wants, even if they say that's what they want. Throughout the modern history of the league (like, last 50 years), the actual fg% league-wide has stayed in a band between 44 and 49%. Rule changes come and go, but the actual product on the floor stays in this range. There is a reason for it. People want to see best battle every possession. If it is easy to score the game becomes more boring to watch, even for those fans who proclaim they love scoring.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#53 » by JayMKE » Mon Nov 3, 2025 11:32 pm

I’d like to see the 3 point shot eliminated and for hand checking/physical defense to be allowed, no more but we all can’t get we want. Cats out of the bag.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#54 » by og15 » Tue Nov 4, 2025 12:01 am

JimmyFromNz wrote:Rules and their interpretations are changed season to season but whether there's incentive in head office or from the players association is another question.

In a perfect world, a simple solution is just going to FIBA travel rules - yah know the official rules of basketball. We don't need to create even more iterations of a new travel rule.

What's the FIBA gather step rule though?

FIBA progressing pivot foot rules at 8:08 -


So is it a difference in the rules, or in the decision to call it or not?
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#55 » by Lockdown504090 » Tue Nov 4, 2025 1:42 am

madmaxmedia wrote:The big problem is that it's not a 'gather step' rule, it's more like the gather rule which means you can take as many steps as you want while you're still 'gathering' the ball.

If you were only allowed one gather step after you first touch the ball with your hands (not when you have firm control), it would agree more with most people's 'eye test'.

EDIT- Capn'O said it first above me,

how is that different from the rule presently where you can take a step while gathering that counts as 0 then use 2 more to you, the giannis clip is only one gather step that takes place while he is in the process of controlling the ball.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#56 » by Karate Diop » Tue Nov 4, 2025 4:36 am

DavidSterned wrote:
The Servant wrote:
52-12-7 wrote:NBA is a ruined product. From players artificially creating super teams, not giving a rats ass about all-star games, players protecting their FG% to the point where it has gotten so bad that the league had to change the rules to encourage end of quarter heaves which is a complete joke... and all these lax rules that only promotes offense. Nevermind the fact that the league tried to sweep Kawhi scandal under the rug, and the latest gambling scandals, this is a product that only cares about making money. I honestly don't know what can save this game.


Really does not feel like a sport anymore. I know its marketed as entertainment but it is at the half way point currently between the WWE and the other big sports leagues.

They need to bring it in line with the 2000s-2010s era. God I feel like an old head saying that in 2025.


Baseball just had an epic postseason and I think has firmly reestablished itself as the 2nd most popular league. NBA isn't catching up anytime soon.

With the way things are trending I wouldn't be surprised to see the NHL and MLS overtake the NBA at some point in the next decade. The quality of the product is just so bad and seems to literally get worse every passing year under its current "leadership".

Shame too because for all of his faults, Stern at least left the league with it still being a fairly compelling product in the early 2010s.


Eh Baseball has its own issues... It's the only league where teams and players blatantly cheat and people turn a blind eye. When the MLB's gambling issues surface it'll likely be swept under the rug even though it'll be seismically worse than the NBA's...
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#57 » by FarBeyondDriven » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:00 am

As Bird, Magic and MJ grew the game and made it more popular, especially overseas, the NBA got more longer and athletic players. Since the court stayed the same size this had the effect of shrinking the court and made scoring very difficult. From the mid-90s we began seeing boring low-scoring slugfests.

1996 Finals Bulls v Sonics

92-88
89-78
87-75

1997 Finals Bulls v Jazz

84-82
97-85
78-73
90-88
90-86

1998 Bulls v Jazz (30 million viewers)

88-85
93-88
96-54
86-82
83-81
86-84

1999 Spurs v Knicks (15 million viewers)

89-77
80-67
89-81
78-77

now, it didn't matter so much while MJ was involved because he was such a massive draw. But they saw that when he retired the first time the ratings tanked and seeing them tank again the 2nd time spooked them so they overreacted. They saw how much excitement was created when Iverson crossed MJ over. They chased that and began loosening the rules to promote scoring believing that would fix fan's apathy. Scoring went up but the ratings didn't recover. Most of it was MJ, Bird and Magic being gone but fans didn't like the new NBA full of carries, moving screens, travels, push offs and foul-baiting. The sport didn't resemble the game fans grew up with and loved so people still wouldn't watch. Luckily for them Steph came around and ignited people's interest in the game for a few years but that faded once every team began spamming threes and the game became even more boring so ratings tanked once again. Injuries and load management was the cherry on top.

I don't blame the league for course correcting and loosing the rules a little because there was in fact a major shift in the game for the worse but they went way too far and now the game is broken way worse than if they had done nothing. You'll never get back the fans they lost but Silver being the buffoon that he is he won't stop trying by making offense even easier so I wouldn't be surprised if he harms the game even more and ratings plummet further. Once Steph, Lebron and KD are gone all that star power disappearing is going to hurt badly so they'll panic and do all the wrong things like they've been doing for the past 30 years guaranteed.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#58 » by madmaxmedia » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:13 am

Lockdown504090 wrote:
madmaxmedia wrote:The big problem is that it's not a 'gather step' rule, it's more like the gather rule which means you can take as many steps as you want while you're still 'gathering' the ball.

If you were only allowed one gather step after you first touch the ball with your hands (not when you have firm control), it would agree more with most people's 'eye test'.

EDIT- Capn'O said it first above me,

how is that different from the rule presently where you can take a step while gathering that counts as 0 then use 2 more to you, the giannis clip is only one gather step that takes place while he is in the process of controlling the ball.


Currently, you can be touching the ball but take another second and 3 steps before it's 'gathered' (at least that's what I thought reading that thread.) So as soon as the ball touches your hand, you just get one step.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#59 » by Tofubeque » Tue Nov 4, 2025 6:11 am

I keep seeing messages like "3 steps while gathering" or "extending the gather" and it tells me people still don't know what the gather is. It's not a process, the ball is either gathered or it's not. It happens the instant their hand is underneath the ball, they touch it with both hands, or palm it completely. This is a basic basketball rule.

It doesn't matter how many steps happened before the gather. It doesn't matter how many steps you take between dribbles. You can take 100 steps between dribbles if you bounce it high and far enough.

The only thing players are pushing is how far their push-ahead dribbles are, and how late they're picking up the ball to start their shot. And in some cases, which direction they're going like Harden's sidestep. It's risky for a player to dribble that high and far without securing the ball with both hands, but are you going to step in and knock it away from Giannis? He gets away with it because he's a huge and fast freak of nature. Appreciate.
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Re: The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP. 

Post#60 » by cornchip » Tue Nov 4, 2025 6:21 am

Completely agree. But I don't see it changing. The league thinks this mess creates better basketball.

For my money, this was one of the most beautiful plays in NBA history and it was executed with a "proper" gather step at around the :25 second mark. A quick step for Dr. J to gather the ball before he executes his dunk:

https://youtu.be/SrlBgLdGKZM?si=Vzx7w04F2kHuwRVK

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