Revisiting (prematurely) the MPJ/CJ Trade

[Airmiess]

Key note:

Not every player is renowned enough to be known by their initials, I only knew it was Cam Johnson because thats who MPJ got traded for.

[Doctor MJ]

Key note:

Not every player is renowned enough to be known by their initials, I only knew it was Cam Johnson because thats who MPJ got traded for.

Excellent point.

Also, my personal pet peeve:

I refuse to use “Junior” in reference for any player whose dad wasn’t famous in the same domain unless he actually uses “Junior” as his first name.

Cool that a dude wants to honor his pops, but it only confuses people who follow the sport. “Oh who was his father?” “No one relevant to what we’re talking about.”


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[cupcakesnake]

I was very high on MPJ before the back injuries sapped a lot of his athleticism on cuts. I haven't seen Brooklyn play yet, so I don't have any knowledge on how MPJ is currently playing and getting them points.

Cam Johnson is currently struggling with his shot, and his role is shooting finisher so that's a big problem. Hopefully it's just a cold start.

About MPJ in Denver, I will say his poor screening was a big problem in that offense. He's super skinny, and had back problems, and it made him one of the least effective screeners in the league. That was a big problem because his main scoring tool is off-ball scoring. Having an off-ball guy you can't use heavily in screening action is a notable restriction. Watching Denver this year, I've noticed how much smoother a couple of actions are with Cam. Denver's offense is really firing, and even without the production, I like Cam better on this team than MPJ.

[Sharkboy242]

MPJ can put up better stats, but that doesn't make him the better player.

No, it doesn't, but I still think he's the better player

And that's based on what, other than stats?

MPJ has never been a consistently impactful player. He has games where he's impactful, yes, but he's not an impactful player. On average, the Nuggets succeeded more times despite MPJ, not thanks to MPJ.

Cam is a batter ball handler, defender, and off the ball player. Probably better in a lot of intangible facets too. Even setting aside Denver's depth acquisitions, the Nuggets starting 5 will be better off without MPJ and with Cam and that's not because MPJ is a better player lol.

[GeorgeMarcus]

MPJ can put up better stats, but that doesn't make him the better player.

No, it doesn't, but I still think he's the better player

And that's based on what, other than stats?

MPJ has never been a consistently impactful player. He has games where he's impactful, yes, but he's not an impactful player. On average, the Nuggets succeeded more times despite MPJ, not thanks to MPJ.

Cam is a batter ball handler, defender, and off the ball player. Probably better in a lot of intangible facets too. Even setting aside Denver's depth acquisitions, the Nuggets starting 5 will be better off without MPJ and with Cam and that's not because MPJ is a better player lol.

I feel like your whole argument falls apart once you look at his impact profile. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests he's been a positive impact player throughout his career. That's why I'm asking you for evidence- because clearly it isn't grounded in the impact data despite impact being the basis of your argument

[GeorgeMarcus]

Key note:

Not every player is renowned enough to be known by their initials, I only knew it was Cam Johnson because thats who MPJ got traded for.

I agree with your premise whole heartedly but the context of being traded for MPJ was my justification

[Sharkboy242]

No, it doesn't, but I still think he's the better player

And that's based on what, other than stats?

MPJ has never been a consistently impactful player. He has games where he's impactful, yes, but he's not an impactful player. On average, the Nuggets succeeded more times despite MPJ, not thanks to MPJ.

Cam is a batter ball handler, defender, and off the ball player. Probably better in a lot of intangible facets too. Even setting aside Denver's depth acquisitions, the Nuggets starting 5 will be better off without MPJ and with Cam and that's not because MPJ is a better player lol.

I feel like your whole argument falls apart once you look at his impact profile. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests he's been a positive impact player throughout his career. That's why I'm asking you for evidence- because clearly it isn't grounded in the impact data despite impact being the basis of your argument

The impact data where he's playing with Jokic or without?

[Peregrine01]

Cam can’t rise up and shoot over people the way that MPJ can but I struggle to think of anything else on offense that he isn’t better at than MPJ.

[Mrakar]

MPJ is better at shooting, and way better at shooting over the people. He is also better rebounder since he is huge(people underestimate how big MPJ is). He did a solid job on Lebron for example just bcs of his size, even though he sucks on defense, being able to hold Lebron in post was quite important and thats something Cam cant do.
All that said, Cam is superior basketball player in all other areas. He can put the ball on the floor, make the right pass(MPJ couldnt/wouldnt make any pass, let alone right pass), keep the ball moving, rotate on ofense and on defense. He did some pick and roll/pop actions with Jokic and i think in this moving offense thats quite important. He is also better defender(even though not great one himself), but he can rotate properly, he knows where to be.
If you look games vs Clippers and OKC last year, and focus only on MPJ you could see how much blunders that guy has over the course of one game. And if he made one/two of those less per game, Nuggets would have been champions last year.
Cam ofc needs to get his shot back, thats undeniable, but even with his cold stretch, Nuggets improved vastly with that trade.

And btw. lets just not forget that bcs of Calvin Booths (Please Use More Appropriate Word) strategy Jok was robbed of at least one championship. Tenzer and Wallace came in and immidiately signed 2 veterans for minimum in Brown and Hardaway. Booth also had an option to do that in 2 offseasons after chip but he went for Saric and Westbrook and also traded away Jackson for 4 2nd rounders. **** idiot was locked in in his war vs Malone more then he was in his GM job. Nuggets fans shouldnt forget that easily as they have. If Nuggets had 2 solid veterans(and there were options) last year, and year before, they would have won at least one championship and no1 can change my mind about that.

[CodeBreaker]

Nuggets are so much better now

[ShootersShoot]

Cams going to be fine. It still hasnt been 10 games in and he is trying to fit in as a starter on a championship caliber seasoned squad. I reckon that isnt easy to do. He is a career 60%TS and 39% from 3. Smallish sample size but 65%TS and 41.6 3pt% career for the playoffs. He has been to the finals. So its not like he has been on tanking teams his whole career.

I think realistically they are in the same tier and when factoring in contracts was a no brainer deal for the nugs.

[nomansland]

Porter's a better shooter and probably will be even after Johnson finds his shot again (and he will). But overall I think Johnson is a better fit with the team. Still I voted that Porter is the better player.

Also the trade was a win/win. Obviously for Denver it was a great trade that allowed them to bolster the bench. But the Nets were going to be bad either way, so they get a 1st rounder, a good look at Porter, and a massive amount of cap space if they decide not to re-sign him in 2 years.

[ConSarnit]

The “Cam is a better defender” crowd is going to be in for a rude awakening come playoff time. Better than an MPJ who can barely lift his arm over his head? Sure. Better than a healthy MPJ (even with his IQ issues)? Nope.

Cam can (and has) been abused and targeted on defense when the games count. MPJ is no great defender but when he’s been healthy he’s been more than competent.

[DarkXaero]

MPJ was always the better player. Cam is a guy you want coming off your bench for 15-20 mpg to give you some efficient scoring in your second unit, that's it. He put up 19 ppg on the Nets last year because we gave him a role no good team should ever give him. This was about saving money.

Completely incorrect. Cam J is comfortably better than MPJ but right now Cam J is playing hurt and honestly shouldn't be playing with how his performance level has been.

I'm not just looking at this season when he's been hurt, I'm looking at his whole career. Cam J has never been anything more than a solid rotational player on mostly bad teams. I don't dislike the guy at all and it's perfectly okay to make a career that way, any team would love to have an efficient scorer coming off their bench, there's nothing wrong with that.

MPJ has been a starter and significant contributor to multiple championship contending teams. There's really no comparison.

What? Cam J played on really strong Suns teams and played well there. Having seen both guys play for the Nets, Cam J is comfortably better than MPJ, he has one of the highest ball IQs in the league where as MPJ has negative bball IQ. MPJ is easily the more talented shotmaker but not the better player. Cam J impacts winning more.

[Lalouie]

I don't get the tank commander narrative, when has that ever been true of MPJ? This is the first season in his career with a negative Net Rtg, which he makes up for with an expectedly high on/off

Even if you ignore the ring on his finger, his impact profile is solid. Defense is generally the main source of criticism but he's put up positive defensive on offs in 5 of 7 seasons. For that to be true, I can't help thinking he's at least passable on that end. Maybe his physical advantages offset what appears to be bad defense? Idk... Just spitballing in hopes to close the gap between public perception and my own. The cherry on top is high scoring efficiency, which is usually a fan favorite when it comes to player analysis

Color me stumped on MPJ. I hereby conclude that I'm right and the masses are wrong, class dismissed

im not necessarily a denver fan but i am a fan of jokic and i am a fan of smarts, and i am not a fan of overindulging on athleticism because it is an unhealthy path for the nba, a sport that overemphasized the individual. the result being a large number of me first hilite players.

not that mpj was a me first player but i saw him as a lavine only taller.....and i do not like lavine

in any case, for the sake of jokic,,,why did i always walk away from a game feeling that mpj let his team down

i see a nifty 6'10 player who moves like a 6'6 and think "how come he's the same player he was 2years ago? that's how i felt. and all i can say is, whatever it was it wasn't enough and denver let his go. so now he can stuff his stats on the worst team in the league


i always enjoy your analysis, but being too smart makes people find enough excuses to excuse anything.

mjp peaked 2yrs at a time when denver, winning a ring found itself instead of being #1 with people envisioning a dynasty now all of a sudden being #2 or #3, and in the throes and began grabbing for answers like westy to pop some life into the team. in the meantime mpj doing his thing, sometimes on sometimes off, but always on a treadmill

anyway, stats or no, it always felt like that to me..............................and so did denver apparently

[cpower]

Denver is No 1 in offense and No 2 in defense right now...isnt that clear who won the trade?

[HotelVitale]

[
so when you compare it, you need to look at the trade as say: CJ + Jonas V + THJ vs. MPJ + a pick (a denver FRP is basically an SRP)...a FRP that will be in the 25-30 range, think there was a better deal for them out there.

You should double check what that pick is.

[Manimal]

Judging the trade from Brookyln's perspective cant be done until much further in the future, once we see what becomes of the 2032 pick Denver gave them and probably also what they're able to flip MPJ for down the line.

That said, the trade became a massive win for the Nuggets once they were able to follow it up by getting Big Val for Saric's corpse, as well as Bruce Brown and THJ. Plus be able to extend Braun without worry. They got 4 quality players and still have more financial flexibility going forward.

I like MPJ as a player, but he was overpaid and greatly hindered Denver's ability to fill out their roster around Jokic. Getting rid of him instantly solved that problem and the payoff is already showing.

[AleksandarN]

The “Cam is a better defender” crowd is going to be in for a rude awakening come playoff time. Better than an MPJ who can barely lift his arm over his head? Sure. Better than a healthy MPJ (even with his IQ issues)? Nope.

Cam can (and has) been abused and targeted on defense when the games count. MPJ is no great defender but when he’s been healthy he’s been more than competent.

No. MPJ was targeted constantly on defense. That put so much stress on AG to compensate on the perimeter that wore him out. Cam is a way better perimeter defender than MPJ will ever be.

[swyftdahoe]

Denver won easily by virtue of CJ having a way better basketball iq.