Where do you rank Kawhi in your all-time list?

[jfs1000d]

Below 50


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[atlantabbq99]

If he could have won 1 more chip, I would have put him up there with Dirk and Paul Peirce, but since he hasn't, its making the Toronto chip look more like a fluke.

Not following your chip logic at all.

Why does he need one more chip to be up there with Dirk & Pierce? Kawhi already has one more chip than both, so if chips is a key factor as you seem to be saying, then Kawhi has already has more chips and FMVP's then both and so by your chip logic he should already be ahead of both.

And how does him not winning a 3rd chip make the Toronto chip look more like a fluke? Kawhi is a great player but not a leader. Both @TO and @SA, Kawhi was surrounded with really good veteran leaders (Duncan/Parker in SA and Lowry/Gasol in TO) providing an effective foundation enabling Kawhi to do on the court what he does best & win. In LA, he was expected to be the leader which he's not good at, so he failed in LA. It's no fluke.

He's very obviously prioritizing winning as the man, and even though Kawhi won the 2014 finals MVP, he was very obviously not the man there. DIrk also has an MVP over him, and like a tremendous amount of longevity advantage. Honestly, not sure how Pierce factors into this, I have outside of the top 30, and Dirk inside the top 20. Just a totally different tier. Kawhi is between the two, around the 25th, I think.

I have Pierce high on my ranking because he beat prime Lebron and prime Kobe

[LakersLegacy]

He messed up his career choosing to cheat with baalmer

[NZB2323]

I have him 23rd, but understand how people could have him ranked worse.

[picko]

He's perhaps the most difficult player in league history to assess. Based on just the regular season, he sneaks into the top 50 (peak wise he's pretty high, but his career has been really short). But based on the post-season, he's absolutely up there and you could easily make a case for top 10 to 15 (WS: 14th all-time; VORP: 11th).

It really depends on how much you value the post-season versus the regular season. A reasonable assessment is probably top 30.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Not following your chip logic at all.

Why does he need one more chip to be up there with Dirk & Pierce? Kawhi already has one more chip than both, so if chips is a key factor as you seem to be saying, then Kawhi has already has more chips and FMVP's then both and so by your chip logic he should already be ahead of both.

And how does him not winning a 3rd chip make the Toronto chip look more like a fluke? Kawhi is a great player but not a leader. Both @TO and @SA, Kawhi was surrounded with really good veteran leaders (Duncan/Parker in SA and Lowry/Gasol in TO) providing an effective foundation enabling Kawhi to do on the court what he does best & win. In LA, he was expected to be the leader which he's not good at, so he failed in LA. It's no fluke.

He's very obviously prioritizing winning as the man, and even though Kawhi won the 2014 finals MVP, he was very obviously not the man there. DIrk also has an MVP over him, and like a tremendous amount of longevity advantage. Honestly, not sure how Pierce factors into this, I have outside of the top 30, and Dirk inside the top 20. Just a totally different tier. Kawhi is between the two, around the 25th, I think.

I have Pierce high on my ranking because he beat prime Lebron and prime Kobe

Celtics Big three beat prime Kobe and LeBron

[NZB2323]

So, 30 people have accomplished what Kawhi has?

The RealGM site when it did its top 100 rankings from 2023 had him at 34, below the following players. I cannot put him over any of them, because I hate Kawhi Leonard and everything his greedy selfish personality stands for. So #34 all time it is.

1. LeBron James
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Michael Jordan
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Magic Johnson
11. Steph Curry
12. Larry Bird
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Jerry West
15. Oscar Robertson
16. George Mikan
17. David Robinson
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Karl Malone
20. Chris Paul
21. Julius Erving
22. Kevin Durant
23. Moses Malone
24. Steve Nash
25. Giannis Antetokounmpo
26. Nikola Jokic
27. Dwyane Wade
28. Charles Barkley
29. James Harden
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Bob Pettit
32. Scottie Pippen
33. John Stockton

You couldn't put Kawhi over James Harden, Chris Paul, Patrick Ewing, Steve Nash, Giannis, or Karl Malone? I'd slot Kawhi comfortably into any of those spots.

I was agreeing with you but then saw Giannis. What is the argument for Kawhi ahead of Giannis? Giannis has better finals stats, more MVPs, more all-stars, and more all-NBAs.

[NZB2323]

Not following your chip logic at all.

Why does he need one more chip to be up there with Dirk & Pierce? Kawhi already has one more chip than both, so if chips is a key factor as you seem to be saying, then Kawhi has already has more chips and FMVP's then both and so by your chip logic he should already be ahead of both.

And how does him not winning a 3rd chip make the Toronto chip look more like a fluke? Kawhi is a great player but not a leader. Both @TO and @SA, Kawhi was surrounded with really good veteran leaders (Duncan/Parker in SA and Lowry/Gasol in TO) providing an effective foundation enabling Kawhi to do on the court what he does best & win. In LA, he was expected to be the leader which he's not good at, so he failed in LA. It's no fluke.

He's very obviously prioritizing winning as the man, and even though Kawhi won the 2014 finals MVP, he was very obviously not the man there. DIrk also has an MVP over him, and like a tremendous amount of longevity advantage. Honestly, not sure how Pierce factors into this, I have outside of the top 30, and Dirk inside the top 20. Just a totally different tier. Kawhi is between the two, around the 25th, I think.

I have Pierce high on my ranking because he beat prime Lebron and prime Kobe

Pierce wasn’t the best player on those teams; KG was.

[levon]

I actually think his Clippers tenure completely destroys his career arc. He had a chance to be the actual leader of a contender and dethrone LeBron's Lakers and he decided to extort his team and protect his assets and ghost. The current Clippers culture is all him.

The Spurs and Raptors were right place, right time where he could do his savant things and go home. He's basically like if Durant played half a career and committed crimes against the league lol.

[NZB2323]

anywhere from 25-40 i would be ok with.

Lets be real, he had 1 great run with the loaded raptors who were also lucky in that they faced an injured warriors team. they were also a bad bounce away from not making the finals. The raptors title is legit ofc, im just saying that was Kawhis only real boost to the all time list.

playoffs wise he hasnt done much in his prime otherwise on a stacked clippers team except for a conference finals appearance where they lost to the cp3 booker suns.
before that he lost to a young joker, and a lesser nuggets team. the past few years have been terrible even when healthy.

people bring up his 2 fmvps like it holds much weight over regular season mvps.
kawhi's 1st fmvp was not like his 2nd. it was a full team effort and couldve easily gone to other players, especially since the spurs crushed the heat.

sure his short prime and raptors run showed that he was a top 4 player at the time kawhi/lbj/curry/kd

but all time lists need sustained excellence,

imo he is not top 30. anything slightly below that i can agree to. top 20 isnt even debatable

he has 0 arguments over (in no specific order, better players on top half tho):

MJ
Lebron
KAJ
Wilt
Duncan

Curry
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kobe

Hakeem
Joker
KD
Giannis
julius irving


Moses Malone
Dirk
karl malone
david robinson
nash
oscar robinson

and thats over 20 already, NOT even including old heads like west mikan russell.

theres still guys like wade harden cp3 barkley etc who all belong in the top 25. imo you can argue kawhi with these guys except maybe wade. but their longevity > lack of a ring

0 argument over Nash, who was terrible in the 04 playoffs, is bad at defense, and never won a ring?

0 argument over Karl Malone, who never won a ring, choked in big playoff games, and has a career 52.6 TS% in the playoffs?

[CodeBreaker]

Above KD

[NZB2323]

Above KD

I’m not a big KD fan, but this seems silly. KD has longevity on Kawhi, a MVP, has a winning record against Kawhi in the regular season and playoffs, and outplays him in those games.

KD: 28, 8, and 4
Kawhi: 19, 7, and 3

[atlantabbq99]

He's very obviously prioritizing winning as the man, and even though Kawhi won the 2014 finals MVP, he was very obviously not the man there. DIrk also has an MVP over him, and like a tremendous amount of longevity advantage. Honestly, not sure how Pierce factors into this, I have outside of the top 30, and Dirk inside the top 20. Just a totally different tier. Kawhi is between the two, around the 25th, I think.

I have Pierce high on my ranking because he beat prime Lebron and prime Kobe

Pierce wasn’t the best player on those teams; KG was.

KG never won Finals MVP.....

[atlantabbq99]

He's very obviously prioritizing winning as the man, and even though Kawhi won the 2014 finals MVP, he was very obviously not the man there. DIrk also has an MVP over him, and like a tremendous amount of longevity advantage. Honestly, not sure how Pierce factors into this, I have outside of the top 30, and Dirk inside the top 20. Just a totally different tier. Kawhi is between the two, around the 25th, I think.

I have Pierce high on my ranking because he beat prime Lebron and prime Kobe

Celtics Big three beat prime Kobe and LeBron

Kobe really never won anything, it was all Pau Gasol .....

If you want to start talking about teammates

[NZB2323]

I have Pierce high on my ranking because he beat prime Lebron and prime Kobe

Pierce wasn’t the best player on those teams; KG was.

KG never won Finals MVP.....

Okay, so you believe that Tony Parker was better than Tim Duncan in 2007? That Iggy was better than Curry in 2015?

[NZB2323]

I have Pierce high on my ranking because he beat prime Lebron and prime Kobe

Celtics Big three beat prime Kobe and LeBron

Kobe really never won anything, it was all Pau Gasol .....

If you want to start talking about teammates

You could argue Gasol was better in the 2010 playoffs, but he really has no argument for 2009. Kobe had a better playoff PER, WS, WS/48, BPM, VORP, and on/off, and in some of those cases by almost double.

[DS17]

i still dont get why people rank KG so high lol. Makes hes a 1xMVp, 1X champion.. but yo ugot him over 4 or 5 time cjamps like steph, magic, KOBe.. ugh llol

After the Aspiration saga, I have zero positive feelings towards Kawhi. He is a greedy cheat who is purely selfish. He barely even played either. I’ll always respect his peak performance but I can’t in good conscience put him in the top 25 or even 30 all time taking his career as a whole.

So, 30 people have accomplished what Kawhi has?

The RealGM site when it did its top 100 rankings from 2023 had him at 34, below the following players. I cannot put him over any of them, because I hate Kawhi Leonard and everything his greedy selfish personality stands for. So #34 all time it is.

1. LeBron James
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Michael Jordan
4. Bill Russell
5. Tim Duncan
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Magic Johnson
11. Steph Curry
12. Larry Bird
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Jerry West
15. Oscar Robertson
16. George Mikan
17. David Robinson
18. Dirk Nowitzki
19. Karl Malone
20. Chris Paul
21. Julius Erving
22. Kevin Durant
23. Moses Malone
24. Steve Nash
25. Giannis Antetokounmpo
26. Nikola Jokic
27. Dwyane Wade
28. Charles Barkley
29. James Harden
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Bob Pettit
32. Scottie Pippen
33. John Stockton

[Primedeion]

Celtics Big three beat prime Kobe and LeBron

Kobe really never won anything, it was all Pau Gasol .....

If you want to start talking about teammates

You could argue Gasol was better in the 2010 playoffs

Kobe beats him in EPM, PER, BPM, RAPM, On/Off, +/-, Ben Taylor's BPM, etc etc despite commanding far more defensive attention and playing with a bunch of injuries. Pau has ZERO argument.

[Mephariel]

He is top 30-40. He missed too many games to be ranked higher.

[art_tatum]

anywhere from 25-40 i would be ok with.

Lets be real, he had 1 great run with the loaded raptors who were also lucky in that they faced an injured warriors team. they were also a bad bounce away from not making the finals. The raptors title is legit ofc, im just saying that was Kawhis only real boost to the all time list.

playoffs wise he hasnt done much in his prime otherwise on a stacked clippers team except for a conference finals appearance where they lost to the cp3 booker suns.
before that he lost to a young joker, and a lesser nuggets team. the past few years have been terrible even when healthy.

people bring up his 2 fmvps like it holds much weight over regular season mvps.
kawhi's 1st fmvp was not like his 2nd. it was a full team effort and couldve easily gone to other players, especially since the spurs crushed the heat.

sure his short prime and raptors run showed that he was a top 4 player at the time kawhi/lbj/curry/kd

but all time lists need sustained excellence,

imo he is not top 30. anything slightly below that i can agree to. top 20 isnt even debatable

he has 0 arguments over (in no specific order, better players on top half tho):

MJ
Lebron
KAJ
Wilt
Duncan

Curry
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kobe

Hakeem
Joker
KD
Giannis
julius irving


Moses Malone
Dirk
karl malone
david robinson
nash
oscar robinson

and thats over 20 already, NOT even including old heads like west mikan russell.

theres still guys like wade harden cp3 barkley etc who all belong in the top 25. imo you can argue kawhi with these guys except maybe wade. but their longevity > lack of a ring

0 argument over Nash, who was terrible in the 04 playoffs, is bad at defense, and never won a ring?

0 argument over Karl Malone, who never won a ring, choked in big playoff games, and has a career 52.6 TS% in the playoffs?

They're both two time MVP winners that carried their franchises for a decade plus. But just came up against all time teams like the prime Spurs and bulls. While young KL was lucky to be in a situation to win his first ring with that same pairs dynasty where his fmvp imo holds little value compared to Nash/Malone's MVPs.

Kawhis clippers have been pretty irrelevant