Was Westbrook career ruined by him being developed as a pointguard?

[BigGargamel]

LOL @ "ruined". Guy is a first ballot hall of famer. This board is so freaking hyperbolic all the time.

[og15]

LOL @ "ruined". Guy is a first ballot hall of famer. This board is so freaking hyperbolic all the time.

Considering no one agrees with the OP, I would say he's on his own with this one, must have had some weird dream about shooting guard Westbrook

[HMFFL]

I knew he would be a point guard in the NBA when he played for UCLA. I thought this was common knowledge.

Russ has been very successful in his career. So I don't understand, OP.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Kids are too young to know wade was made to play PG his rookie year and that Westbrook use to be an elite mid range shooter.

Why he lost his shooting touch. Who knows

[benson13]

It goes without saying that Westbrook needed to develop a reliable jump shot, but he was such a good creator and passer that it doesn't make sense to say he shouldn't have been a point guard.

Russ needed a very specific type of team built around him the same way MVP Iverson did. If the team wasn't constructed in that way, you're staring at a treadmill team. Ultimately that requirement proved to be too much work, and Sam Presti decided to rip off the Houston Rockets and LA Clippers instead.

[Pelly24]

He's been in the league for like 17 years and still has no jumpshot to speak of. Even big guys develop their jumpers now late in their careers.

He either didn't care to develop it, or was unable to. I do not think position had anything to do with it.

Full speed in transition into pull up jumper from 15 ft used to Westbrook's signature move early in his career. He had years shooting nearly 85% from the line too. For whatever reason his midrange jumper and FT shooting fell off a cliff

Yeah if he could still hit that shot and his free throws at 82% or whatever, he'd probably still be an all-star level player because he's still a great athlete. His game fell off a cliff as soon as that stuff fell off. He remains a great passer. One of the more inexplicable falloffs i've seen. He could've been a top 25 of all time guy. He'd hit 39% of his midrange jumpers and 35% of his threes on high volume his MVP year and then 82% from free throw line and he got there a lot. Those might seem like modest percentages from midrange and three, but basically 4/10 midrange jumpers would go in he'd get hot from there sometimes and like, barely miss for the game, and when he did miss, he could still get to the rim and finish, and when he didn't do that, he could get to the line and knock those down. And then by the law of averages, by the time it was a close game, he'd taken a good amount of bad shots anyway, so he might just get hot and inexplicably hit like three or four threes in the 4th quarter. And then all along he'd be making incredible passes seemingly only he could make. he was really pretty unstoppable and outplayed or matched various superstars in the playoffs, like CP3, Kawhi, Dwade, etc. Didn't really play worse than harden, was just outmatched team wise in the playoffs.

[meekrab]

Generally NBA teams prefer if their shooting guards can shoot.

[threethehardway]

What hand injury did he have between 16-17 and 17-18 that caused this? (Actual question, I don't know). Also, other guys have tons have hand injuries, Chris Paul has mangled looking fingers and we don't have reports of that making them poor shooters out of nowhere. Doesn't mean there's no effect as of course it all depends on how things heal and if there are mobility changes. Definitely more common with things like elbow or shoulder injuries as that can potentially totally change how you release altogether.

Here is Westbrook saying it himself that his routine was messed up:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

FT's in game are also a lot about routine, and then there's the confidence factor. You start missing a lot, and then you start tweaking things, and then suddenly your shot is not at the same level of confidence as you used to have. That might be an issue that happened for him at least initially, and then possibly in later seasons other factors played into it.

Westbrook's mid-range jumpshot didn't decline the same time as his FT%. He actually had a career 3rd best up to that point from long mid-range in 17-18 when his FT% declined after the rule change. He also had some normal for him mid-range shooting from short and long mid-range, really up until his role drastically changed to more of a role player. There's likely some impact in losing athleticism as he is a very high jumping jumpshooter, and then there's also the fact that he's a rhythm guy with his shooting, and his later roles didn't give him the shots to get into shooting rhythms.

Westbrook has had hand injuries as recent as 2024 and 2025 and dating back to 2014. He most likely has undocumented hand injuries throughout his entire career. You don't repeatedly deal with hand injuries and not have some level of gradual decline in the functioning of your hand. It's no different than Floyd Mayweather having injuries hands that took away his knockout power.

And like I said, he never had great shooting touch to start. He never had great touch on layups or his jumpshot. He shoots a hard ball naturally. Now he shoots knuckle balls.

Chris Paul is a 100 times better shooter than Russell Westbrook even if Chris Paul only had 1 arm. You comparing the most elite midrange shooter we have ever seen at any position to a guy that bricked layups while in his prime.

Kobe had the same issue with his wrist and hands too as Westbrook and he had to find ways to work around it but he's Kobe.

Russell Westbrook isn't a skillful masterful player like those two. He's a dominant physical force that tries to out will his opponent.

The routine rule only impacts the second free throw. He peaked at 76% free throw shooting after the routine rule change.

You gotta remember, he's a professional athlete, a prideful one at that, and was experiencing a drop in his stock at that time despite winning MVP the previous year. Is he gonna say, "Hey my hands are cooked and that's why I shoot a knuckle ball that hits the side of a backboard on a routine basis."

Or "It's my free throw routine."

If it his free throw routine, it means that he has the power to fix it if he gets a better routine. If it his hands and now he has loss touch and comfortability with the ball, it will never come back.

I would lie and tell you it's my routine too. I wouldn't tell you that my hands don't function like they used to and I had to develop my touch to get the little results I had after thousands of hours and now whatever touch I had is gone.

Why would I tell you that and the public already don't like the way I play?

[jbk1234]

I get the point that the O.P. is trying to make, but if his usage remained at AI levels, I'm not sure there would've been a meaningful difference.

[hardenASG13]

Generally NBA teams prefer if their shooting guards can shoot.

Except for OKC when they had Westbrook and KD smh. It's unbelievable they didn't surround those two with shooting and did the extreme opposite. Presti learned too late.

[tsherkin]

Seems more from the rules change about taking 600 years between FTs than from injuries.

I don't think so.

Russell Westbrook never had good touch, even on layups after his finger and hand injuries. He was already a player that struggled with his shooting touch and developed just enough to be a streaky midrange shooter and a good free throw shooter.

You don't go from being a streaky midrange shooter and good FT shooter to clanky knuckle balls.

I mean, look at the actual numbers:

09-17:

0-3 Feet: 57.7% FG
3-10 Feet: 32.7% FG
10-16 Feet: 39.8% FG
16-23 Feet: 38.5% FG
3pt: 31.3% FG

Raw FG%: 43.3%

18 Onward:

0-3 Feet: 63.9% FG
3-10 Feet: 38.2% FG
10-16 Feet: 37.3% FG
16-23 Feet: 37.1% FG
3pt: 30.2% FG

Raw FG%: 44.6%

This is not a huge difference. Except that he's actually improved his finishing in closer to the basket with the faster paces and lower shooting volume.

He had a couple of his peak shooting seasons beforehand, but he was never consistent as a mid-range scorer even before any sort of hand injuries, and the average percentages are super similar.

And his FT% began to decline from the 17-18 season onward... not coincidentally, that was the season they implemented the time limit between FTs.

His hands are cooked.

It isn't his hands. He was always a weak shooter in close and a streaky, inconsistent and weaker shooter in general. The only real difference comes at the FT line, where there is a specific difference in his routine which has screwed him up. That's it.

[balrog27]

Dude is having one of the most impressive careers in the history of the nba. Realign = his career is ruined…. Lmaooooo

[NYKnickerbocker]

Westbrick had a reliable middy for a few seasons. It vanished shortly after he started his triple double tour. Hard to say a career is ruined when you end up top 75 all time in your sport lol

[falcolombardi]

As opposed to being developed as a shooting guard with his great jumpshooting skill?

[Lockdown504090]

Westbrook, as far as I know, played shooting guard in college. When he came into the NBA, he played point guard, and every commentator was so impressed by this. For me, his career is summarized as doing too much.

What if he took the Dwayne Wade or Iverson route, becoming a shooting guard and developing a mid-range game?


Edit. Replace ruined with damaged

he had a great mid range game, his hands and fingers are ruined thats why he cant shoot. He literally went from 84 percent on 10 fts per game down to 73 percent the next year, and now below 65. you can see it, theyre all swollen and deformed. he cant follow through the way he wants on most nights.

https://www.si.com/nba/nuggets/onsi/news/new-photo-reveals-concerning-look-at-russell-westbrook-s-hand-injury-01k0n70q6ngc

scroll down... the index finger is literally the most important one.

[Slava]

His best role as the one he played in Houston, as the nominal center who couldn’t shoot in a 1 in 4 out offense and he still failed in the playoffs because he is pretty useless off the ball and never managed to be an impactful defender, despite his strong physical ability.

[threethehardway]

Seems more from the rules change about taking 600 years between FTs than from injuries.

I don't think so.

Russell Westbrook never had good touch, even on layups after his finger and hand injuries. He was already a player that struggled with his shooting touch and developed just enough to be a streaky midrange shooter and a good free throw shooter.

You don't go from being a streaky midrange shooter and good FT shooter to clanky knuckle balls.

I mean, look at the actual numbers:

09-17:

0-3 Feet: 57.7% FG
3-10 Feet: 32.7% FG
10-16 Feet: 39.8% FG
16-23 Feet: 38.5% FG
3pt: 31.3% FG

Raw FG%: 43.3%

18 Onward:

0-3 Feet: 63.9% FG
3-10 Feet: 38.2% FG
10-16 Feet: 37.3% FG
16-23 Feet: 37.1% FG
3pt: 30.2% FG

Raw FG%: 44.6%

This is not a huge difference. Except that he's actually improved his finishing in closer to the basket with the faster paces and lower shooting volume.

He had a couple of his peak shooting seasons beforehand, but he was never consistent as a mid-range scorer even before any sort of hand injuries, and the average percentages are super similar.

And his FT% began to decline from the 17-18 season onward... not coincidentally, that was the season they implemented the time limit between FTs.

His hands are cooked.

It isn't his hands. He was always a weak shooter in close and a streaky, inconsistent and weaker shooter in general. The only real difference comes at the FT line, where there is a specific difference in his routine which has screwed him up. That's it.

You have to look at the ball he shoots.

Free throw routines don't cause a 80 percent free throw shooter to drop off the cliff.

His improvements with finishing inside had to do with his ability but better roster construction for interior finishing and pace.

[JN61]

Westbrook is one of the best play creators of all time and advanced stats which focus on this aspect have his peak years being like top 3 creator peak in NBA history if I remember right... Absolute L take.

Iverson and Wade combined don't even sniff his jockstrap playmaking wise.

Yea, no I wouldn't go that far. Wade was a SG who avg about 8 apg in his prime. He was a phenomenal playmaker and when actually slotted in as the PG in stretches circa '08-09 averaged 10 apg. We also saw 4 years of seamless passes to Bron which he made look easy but the timing and precision took prestine skill, especially those 70+ feet passes he made.

Yea you can claim Westbrook is a superior playmaker but far better than both combined as if this were Kawhi or such is stretching it. Wade has always been an underrated playmaker nonetheless.

Westbrook has in stretches averaged over 17 assists per game... What is your point.

[Sign5]

Westbrook is one of the best play creators of all time and advanced stats which focus on this aspect have his peak years being like top 3 creator peak in NBA history if I remember right... Absolute L take.

Iverson and Wade combined don't even sniff his jockstrap playmaking wise.

Yea, no I wouldn't go that far. Wade was a SG who avg about 8 apg in his prime. He was a phenomenal playmaker and when actually slotted in as the PG in stretches circa '08-09 averaged 10 apg. We also saw 4 years of seamless passes to Bron which he made look easy but the timing and precision took prestine skill, especially those 70+ feet passes he made.

Yea you can claim Westbrook is a superior playmaker but far better than both combined as if this were Kawhi or such is stretching it. Wade has always been an underrated playmaker nonetheless.

Westbrook has in stretches averaged over 17 assists per game... What is your point.

Irrelevant and my point is illustrated in the first sentence. Wade isn't chopped liver as a playmaker and if he were to play PG his whole career ala Westbrook, that notion you posted wouldn't even be feasible since he'd be averaging 9+ apg himself. On top of that Westbrook dominates the ball like no other.. its not like Jokic who can average a triple double without pounding the rock incessantly.

Thus, why he cant/couldn't co-exist with a Lebron or even Luka. Westbrook is a superb passer, everyone knows that but I dont personally feel hes better than both combined to that extent.
That's my point, hope its clearer this time champ.

[JN61]

Yea, no I wouldn't go that far. Wade was a SG who avg about 8 apg in his prime. He was a phenomenal playmaker and when actually slotted in as the PG in stretches circa '08-09 averaged 10 apg. We also saw 4 years of seamless passes to Bron which he made look easy but the timing and precision took prestine skill, especially those 70+ feet passes he made.

Yea you can claim Westbrook is a superior playmaker but far better than both combined as if this were Kawhi or such is stretching it. Wade has always been an underrated playmaker nonetheless.

Westbrook has in stretches averaged over 17 assists per game... What is your point.

Irrelevant and my point is illustrated in the first sentence. Wade isn't chopped liver as a playmaker and if he were to play PG his whole career ala Westbrook, that notion you posted wouldn't even be feasible since he'd be averaging 9+ apg himself. On top of that Westbrook dominates the ball like no other.. its not like Jokic who can average a triple double without pounding the rock incessantly.

Thus, why he cant/couldn't co-exist with a Lebron or even Luka. Westbrook is a superb passer, everyone knows that but I dont personally feel hes better than both combined to that extent.
That's my point, hope its clearer this time champ.

Westbrook doesn't do unnecessary dribbling of the ball... It's clear you never watched him. Only reason why he racks on dribbling statistic is because he brings up the ball every damn time... Yet as highlighted Westbrook was totally capable of racking up 17 assists per game statistics in bursts in his career when he concentrated on the playmaking. And is clearly better than both combined or individually.