The Nuggets miss Westbrook

[Woodsanity]

1. Denver is awful at playing at pace this season. Last year they were strong in that area. Russ will make poor decisions on the break but he also can get others good shots in transition. A big part of Denver's success on the break last year was Russ.

2. Competitive fire. Denver has had some huge letdown stretches this year where they just seem content to take the ball out of the basket after an opponent's make and play Outscore Ball. They're missing some grit. That's one reason Westbrook was brought in last season.

14-6 and they're hurt so nothing to panic about. However, the losses are starting to look similar and there's no Malone or Russ to blame any longer.

The Nuggets have now lost four straight at home for the first time since Jokic's rookie year. There are some real issues there and it's time to start looking at things a bit more seriously IMO if you are the coaching staff or the front office.

I think it's good that Russ left the team but they could use a guy with his skill set right now as well as an athletic third big.

You realize that the Nuggets are missing two starters right? No they do not need Russ.

[nomansland]

They should've kept him if Pickett is unplayable and Brown is this washed up.

Jokic's petulance can resurface with a quickness. He was frustrated and spent clutch time standing around and chucking 3's. At home, against a poor team, Spencer F'n Jones gave you damn near 30, and Jok already put in the work for a monster statline. And yet the 4th was unserious. It kills me when he punches out of a game like this.

They badly miss AG.

Wtf says Brown is washed up??

Yeah Brown had a bad night last night but he was sick as a dog. I was somewhat skeptical about him coming into the season but overall he's been a pleasant surprise. You just have to keep your expectations in check.

[Karate Diop]

The idea of having Westbrook on your roster is always better than having Westbrook on your roster.

[tsherkin]

But he doesnt need to be a prominent player on your team. Coaches dont need to play him in the clutch or put him in a position to hurt them....he provides value outside of that and he doesnt come off as a guy who'd make a stink if he played 10 or 25 minutes or was DNP-CD

But he still ends up costing you games with his turnovers and inefficiency. He doesn't really complain about minutes, that's true, but when he does play, he eventually causes problems. That's why he has become a journeyman. It isn't because he's still a high-value contributor who lots of teams want because of his potential fit.

[NyKnicks1714]

Am I missing something here? They had a bad loss last night, but so far they're outperforming last year's team any way you want to slice it.

[tsherkin]

Am I missing something here? They had a bad loss last night, but so far they're outperforming last year's team any way you want to slice it.

Mostly people just looking to complain because the Nuggets don't look like they'll win 74, I suspect.

[JN61]

The nuggets don`t miss Westbrook. They miss being healthy.

If Braun und A-aron would be healthy, there would be a big chance that the nuggets would be the save 2nd spot in the West. Westbrook had his moments during last year but mainly because there simply was no depth in the roster. If they are healthy with their starting five they now have players like Timmy or Valanciunas who can give solid (not good) minutes as backups - i clear improvement.

They weren't exactly the peak of healthiness last season... It is always but this guy has missed handful of games this season. Meanwhile same guy missed half of the previous season (not to mentioning all the games their best player missed)

[Yoshun]

One of the funniest shows of all time.

[Ssj16]

Bruce Brown was supposed to give them that Westbrook like enthusiasm and utility, but he's been playing very poorly, shooting worse than Westbrook, 39% FG and 28% from 3. Last time he was in Denver he was 48% and 35%. Major difference.

Bruce Brown was sick last night but I was very cautious about him being a plus player on Denver. He looked like one of those players who did not age well if you look at his time after Denver on Toronto, Indiana, etc.

I love Bruce but it looks like he's lost some of his athleticism. I think he had some injury issues so maybe that is the reason.

I still think Bruce is a good player but maybe not as the backup point guard and his old King Swag persona during his previous Nuggets stint may not be possible any longer physically.

Bruce, the old Bruce, is a natural fit for the fiery aspect of Russ' personality. On the other hand, Bruce is not the passer that Russ is

If I as the GM could swap Russ for Brown and keep the rest of the Nuggets the same, I'd do that in a heartbeat. But Russ would need to be comfortable coming off the bench and playing a more limited role (10 - 12 mins a game on most nights).

[cjx]

Yes, Fam, bring back Muscle Westbrook

The West Side is Mile High, ya dig?

What's down is what's going up, Nugget Power !!

Kings can help us out again, and we'll trade for Russ. Thank you, Sac Town

[ShootersShoot]

They need athleticism and versatility next to jokic, which is why they have been struggling recently without gordon and westbrook isnt really going to help in that regard. Also another starter in braun has been out. Do they miss RW? Maybe somewhat but they are fine without him.

[scrabbarista]

Can we lock this? They don't miss Westbrook.

Lock it!

Lock it!

Lock it!

Lock it!

[cupcakesnake]

Im actually surprised more teams didnt make a play for WB. He seems like a professional who's well liked and respected in the locker room and he provides good value at what he does. He's far from a complete player, but as a bench role player making the minimum, you could do a lot worse. Crazy to me that contenders didnt make a play for him

Basically all of his stops have showed why, to be honest.

But he doesnt need to be a prominent player on your team. Coaches dont need to play him in the clutch or put him in a position to hurt them....he provides value outside of that and he doesnt come off as a guy who'd make a stink if he played 10 or 25 minutes or was DNP-CD

The Nuggets are a playoff team. They're trying to win a championship. Surely you remember Russ in his last few playoffs series over the past few seasons, right?

He hit a new low in the OKC series and really challenged the idea that Westbrook is a viable player in a playoff rotation. He had more turnovers than assists, he had more fouls than he had rebounds (or rebounds, steals, and blocks combined). He missed twice as many shots as he made. It's hard to say it was just a bad series, when it happened so soon after another complete disaster (Clips vs. Mavs the year before).

It is not in anyway strange that a contending team decided to look elsewhere for rotation players.

[ConSarnit]

1. Denver is awful at playing at pace this season. Last year they were strong in that area. Russ will make poor decisions on the break but he also can get others good shots in transition. A big part of Denver's success on the break last year was Russ.

2. Competitive fire. Denver has had some huge letdown stretches this year where they just seem content to take the ball out of the basket after an opponent's make and play Outscore Ball. They're missing some grit. That's one reason Westbrook was brought in last season.

14-6 and they're hurt so nothing to panic about. However, the losses are starting to look similar and there's no Malone or Russ to blame any longer.

The Nuggets have now lost four straight at home for the first time since Jokic's rookie year. There are some real issues there and it's time to start looking at things a bit more seriously IMO if you are the coaching staff or the front office.

I think it's good that Russ left the team but they could use a guy with his skill set right now as well as an athletic third big.

You realize that the Nuggets are missing two starters right? No they do not need Russ.

The Nuggets record 20 games into the season: 14-6 (.700) with a +8.8 net rating.

Nuggets record last year: 50-32 (.610) with a +3.3 net rating.

The Nuggets also have the best half court offense in the league, a nearly +5 net rating increase from last year. Losing Russ made the Nuggets a significantly better offensive team AND a slightly better defensive team.

In what world are the Nuggets hurting because they lost Russ? Losing Russ has effectively made the Nuggets the greatest offense of all-time. And their defense stayed the same.

I’ll take an improved team (and maybe the best offense of all-time) if all it costs me is a little “grit” (which of course is just some BS intangible to try and make Russ look more valuable).

[ConSarnit]

Denver doesn't need to play at a faster pace.

Denver needs to be able to handle playing at a faster pace because that's how opponents are attacking them. And then when Denver speeds up, they crumble. It's happened multiple times this year already.

The Dallas game wasn't super fast but it was fast enough to throw the Nuggets offense off rhythm .


DEN fast break points per game last year



DEN fast break points per game this year



The issue is not only the lost 4 ppg in FBP but the failed attempted fast breaks this season that end up as bricks or turnovers that lead to opponent run-outs for easy scores. This dynamic is probably Denver's biggest problem so far this season, along with overall halfcourt defensive struggles.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for a Russ return. But Denver needs someone who fits the Russ profile: Up tempo, fiery and a strong passer. Competitive.

Missing Gordon and Braun hurts significantly, same for Murray, but their coming back isn't going to solve the core fast-pace issue. Denver needs a ball handler and creator who can play at pace more than they need finishers on the break like Gordon and Braun.

Murray is having a great year but he's not naturally a high-pace guy and you need someone else to help him share the burden with decision making and ball handling. Bruce is ok but not ideal IMO.

Russ is a phenomenal passer, the best passer Jokic ever played with.

Denver has apparently been exploring the idea of bringing in a backup point guard. I think that would help and I think it's getting clearer about what kind of guy might fit best in that role.

I also think that they could use an athletic big in the rotation but apparently they don't think Holmes is ready and NNaji can still be inconsistent.

Denver has the best half-court offense in the league. They are on pace to have the best offense EVER. Whatever they’ve “lost” from not having Russ they’ve gained massively in the half-court (you know, where the majority of the game is played).

Denver also has a better defensive rating this year than they did last year.

So I have to ask: How are they missing Russ when their team is clearly better without him?

[SNPA]

For the low low price of just one first round pick he could be yours! See offer details and act today. Limited supply, time is running out!

[Lalouie]

did westy ask for more money. if so his ego got the better of him.

what's wrong with the $360mil he already has
he should have been closing out his career on a GOOD team

[Lalouie]

Denver doesn't need to play at a faster pace.

Denver needs to be able to handle playing at a faster pace because that's how opponents are attacking them. And then when Denver speeds up, they crumble. It's happened multiple times this year already.

The Dallas game wasn't super fast but it was fast enough to throw the Nuggets offense off rhythm .


DEN fast break points per game last year



DEN fast break points per game this year



The issue is not only the lost 4 ppg in FBP but the failed attempted fast breaks this season that end up as bricks or turnovers that lead to opponent run-outs for easy scores. This dynamic is probably Denver's biggest problem so far this season, along with overall halfcourt defensive struggles.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for a Russ return. But Denver needs someone who fits the Russ profile: Up tempo, fiery and a strong passer. Competitive.

Missing Gordon and Braun hurts significantly, same for Murray, but their coming back isn't going to solve the core fast-pace issue. Denver needs a ball handler and creator who can play at pace more than they need finishers on the break like Gordon and Braun.

Murray is having a great year but he's not naturally a high-pace guy and you need someone else to help him share the burden with decision making and ball handling. Bruce is ok but not ideal IMO.

Russ is a phenomenal passer, the best passer Jokic ever played with.

Denver has apparently been exploring the idea of bringing in a backup point guard. I think that would help and I think it's getting clearer about what kind of guy might fit best in that role.

I also think that they could use an athletic big in the rotation but apparently they don't think Holmes is ready and NNaji can still be inconsistent.

Denver has the best half-court offense in the league. They are on pace to have the best offense EVER. Whatever they’ve “lost” from not having Russ they’ve gained massively in the half-court (you know, where the majority of the game is played).

Denver also has a better defensive rating this year than they did last year.

So I have to ask: How are they missing Russ when their team is clearly better without him?

they're not CLEARLY better since the change was more than just losing westy in a vacuum

[The4thHorseman]

Westbrook was a solid Regular Season minutes-eater for them, he was just unplayable in the Postseason because he can't shoot the 3 with any sort of consistency.

Spacing wasn't the only issue. Dumb decisions and bad, poorly-timed turnovers were a big part of it as well.

When Good Russ showed up, he was valuable, but Bad Russ shows up eventually, and he's... really a problem. Westbrook has only one mode: full throttle, and that isn't the brightest way to play.

Seems like ever since he started coming off the bench, as soon as he gets in, it's like he thinks he HAS to do everything himself. Instant dribble drive to the basket which a lot of times ends in disaster rather than something positive. Immanuel Quickley was like that when he came off the bench in NY. Looked like a Tasmanian Devil just going so fast, trying to do everything, which would lead to out of control forced shots and turnovers.

[tsherkin]

Seems like ever since he started coming off the bench, as soon as he gets in, it's like he thinks he HAS to do everything himself. Instant dribble drive to the basket which a lot of times ends in disaster rather than something positive.

That isn't new to him being a bench player, it's been his basic MO forever. He has only one move: line-drive dribble attack where he hurls himself at the rim. And he does it a lot, and can pass, and that worked out okay for a time, especially for accruing stats. He's never had tempo control, never been the measured game manager, never been a real PG in that way. When he was at his peak in OKC, he had a little bit more of a pull-up and a brief stretch where he was okay from 3 and that changed things up, but in the absence of that (and with his brutal FT shooting), his O is roooough.