Nash: Players Shouldn't Be Judged On Titles

[hsb]

Forget even the title talk, Nash hasn't even played in one Finals game in his career.

Also, what is interesting is that his team did lose twice to the eventual NBA champions in the playoffs. Why knock him for being in the western conference? Most notably, San Antonio and Cleveland met in the NBA finals in 06-07, but throughout the Spurs run, Phoenix was easily the toughest opponent. Very odd to be upset over his team not making the finals in this instance, with everything being equal, they seemed like the second best team in the league (without incorporating questionable suspensions).

[CoolD]

How many MVP's does Chris Webber have for making it hard on Lakers mini dynasty.
And Spurs really didn't have as hard a time, as the media made it out.

Spurs never had an elimination game.

[RoyalStyles]

pistol pete.

[hsb]

How many MVP's does Chris Webber have for making it hard on Lakers mini dynasty.
And Spurs really didn't have as hard a time, as the media made it out.

Spurs never had an elimination game.

You are missing the point. Just compare the Cleveland team that made it to the finals with Phoenix. The better team is obvious.

The playoffs do not have any barring on the MVP selection.

[Leslie Forman]

Actually Nash is the main reason why the Suns are bad defensively...

Actually, here's irrefutable proof that Steve Nash is one of the best defensive point guards ever.

Jordan didn't have the best rebounders first 3 titles without Rodman. But Scottie and Jordan's great perimeter defense was able to disrupt offenses like no other.

Psst…I have a secret to tell you - the Bulls couldn't have won a title without Horace Grant…keep it on the DL yo…

Nash is horrible on defense all around.
One sided players get exposed in the NBA. Nash is pretty much that example.

Yeah that Jason Williams, what a defender!

[rumdiary]

What Nash is doing is more admirable than players who jet to a championship contender when they see their prime years falling behind them.

100% with Nash on this one

[MitchSlapped]

This should only pertain to Robert Horry and Steve Kerr, who have a combined 12 rings. They got lucky being at right place at the right time and should be judged as great role players who hit the big threes from time to time, at best.

[rsavaj]

This "Suns defense SUCKED" thing is overblown. Yeah, this year it sucked, but the Porter/Kerr experiment was terrible. In 05/06 up through January, Phoenix was a TOP 5 defensive team(using DRTNG). TOP FIVE.

Then Kurt Thomas got injured.

Throughout their glory years PHX has hovered between 14th and 18th I believe. Average to slightly below average, but hardly "NO DEFENSE AT ALL!"

[john2jer]

Most people just look at points against when looking at the best defensive teams, completely ignoring pace. During the Suns good run, they actually put up solid "Points per 100 possessions" numbers.

[RoxFan08]

Yeah, there's a ton of misinformation and uninformed posts in this thread. The title (thanks RealGM) is also very misleading.

As to what Nash actually said (read the article before you bash him, people), I agree 100% with him.

And for the record, if you think Phoenix was bad at D solely because of Nash (and it's been proven they weren't in fact THAT bad), then you are an idiot. Basketball is a team game, and defense is a team sport.

The best players in the world can score at will in 2v2 against the best defenders in the world. Why? Because defense is all about help defense, to a far greater degree than it is about man D. And the former can't be placed solely on Nash, obviously.

And further, while he may not have deserved his 04-05 trophy (I think Shaq probably should have won it), he absolutely deserved it in 05-06, and he was probably the best candidate in 06-07, but the voters didn't want to make him a 3 team winner.

And again the Kerr/Horry thing. It's very clear that one man cannot win a championship (not even Michael Jordan), and there is also an enormous amount of luck involved.

[CoolD]

Raja Bell probably top 5 defender in his position.
Shawn Marion another top 5 defender in his position.
Is hilarious how is not Nash fault, lets throw all the blame on his teammates. Everyone one of them is a better defender than him.
Have you actually watch Nash play defense with your own eyes. Easiley worst MVP defender, next to Allen Iverson I ever seen.
Dude is horrible at pick and roll defense.
Pretty bad on team defense.

Just give Chris Paul
Raja Bell, and Shawn Marion.
That backcourt will be able to make up for a lot deficiencies.

MVP of that team was D'Antoni.

[rsavaj]

Raja Bell probably top 5 defender in his position.
Shawn Marion another top 5 defender in his position.
Is hilarious how is not Nash fault, lets throw all the blame on his teammates. Everyone one of them is a better defender than him.
Have you actually watch Nash play defense with your own eyes. Easiley worst MVP defender, next to Allen Iverson I ever seen.
Dude is horrible at pick and roll defense.
Pretty bad on team defense.

Just give Chris Paul
Raja Bell, and Shawn Marion.
That backcourt will be able to make up for a lot deficiencies.

MVP of that team was D'Antoni.

He's actually a good help defender so I don't know what you're talking about.

[pillwenney]

Raja Bell probably top 5 defender in his position.
Shawn Marion another top 5 defender in his position.
Is hilarious how is not Nash fault, lets throw all the blame on his teammates. Everyone one of them is a better defender than him.
Have you actually watch Nash play defense with your own eyes. Easiley worst MVP defender, next to Allen Iverson I ever seen.
Dude is horrible at pick and roll defense.
Pretty bad on team defense.

Just give Chris Paul
Raja Bell, and Shawn Marion.
That backcourt will be able to make up for a lot deficiencies.

MVP of that team was D'Antoni.

You are aware that Marion almost always played PF in Phoenix--where he wasn't close to being top 5 at his position, right? And Bell was MAYBE top 5 at the time. Even that's not saying all that much. He was never a really great defender that could legitimately, really slow down strong wing scorers.

The point is, take away Nash and the Suns get a little bit better defensively and much, much worse offensively.

And it still boggles my mind how anyone can say the team around Nash in 05-06 was talented. He had one other player on the team who could create shots for others (Diaw, who was obviously helped in that area by Nash), and one other all-star caliber player (Marion--a very good role player).

[Birth of the Cool]

Step 1:
Nash is correct. Having a long NBA Career, winning two MVP Awards, being one of the better point guards of his era, making tons of money playing a game you love & all the freedom that financial reward entails - all coming from someone who very few thought would have such a remarkable, let alone lasting career in the NBA is quite phenomenal & NBA greatness or the success of his NBA professional career shouldn't be based mainly on whether he one championships or not. There have been many a great players that did not win it all & many a great players made even greater by being lucky enough to have teammates, coaches, management, ownership, etc., that built a environment sportwise/businesswise, etc that allowed for NBA Glory. Some players that are great will not win for any number of factors - a greater/dominant player played in your era (MJ), your ownership not really caring about championship but more about the bottom $$...things just out of your control.

Step 2 !:
Watch this Steve Nash video that shows his elite skills & try to deny his greatness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxZkaEge0R8

Step 3:
Don't hate.

[canguy20m]

nash is the oscar de la hoya of basketball. overrated junk.

and nash, dont pretend you're canadian. you're actually south african.

he lived in Canada from 1.5 years old until college. he's Canadian.

[CoolD]

Raja Bell probably top 5 defender in his position.
Shawn Marion another top 5 defender in his position.
Is hilarious how is not Nash fault, lets throw all the blame on his teammates. Everyone one of them is a better defender than him.
Have you actually watch Nash play defense with your own eyes. Easiley worst MVP defender, next to Allen Iverson I ever seen.
Dude is horrible at pick and roll defense.
Pretty bad on team defense.

Just give Chris Paul
Raja Bell, and Shawn Marion.
That backcourt will be able to make up for a lot deficiencies.

MVP of that team was D'Antoni.

You are aware that Marion almost always played PF in Phoenix--where he wasn't close to being top 5 at his position, right? And Bell was MAYBE top 5 at the time. Even that's not saying all that much. He was never a really great defender that could legitimately, really slow down strong wing scorers.

The point is, take away Nash and the Suns get a little bit better defensively and much, much worse offensively.

And it still boggles my mind how anyone can say the team around Nash in 05-06 was talented. He had one other player on the team who could create shots for others (Diaw, who was obviously helped in that area by Nash), and one other all-star caliber player (Marion--a very good role player).

Shawn Marion hit over 11 rebounds per game 3 seasons.
While getting 2 steals around per game.
He was easily a top 5 defender in his position, PF or even SF. the fact he is a very versatile defender shouldn't be counted against him.
Yes he is no Tim Duncan, but he is easily a top 5 defender.

I never remember Mike Bibby be turned into a God through a lot of fake hype, when Sacramento was one of the best offensive teams.
Amare and Webber are about the same players, both teams were all offense no defense, but anyone in a right state of mind wouldn't have given a thought to Mike Bibby being a MVP.
He was good pg, that could shoot, in very talented team, pretty much like Nash.

What I laugh about Nash statements, MVP is media given award. NBA titles are earn on the basketball court, so you should judge a player on awards that are handed out, instead of earning it . Makes sense.

[Mamba Venom]

Technically you can't play for a title if you aren't playing in the Finals! Nash is the only 2 time MVP not to win a ring and probably the only MVP never to play in the Finals.


I love Nash still. He gives me hope as a smaller white pg.

[pillwenney]

Shawn Marion hit over 11 rebounds per game 3 seasons.
While getting 2 steals around per game.
He was easily a top 5 defender in his position, PF or even SF. the fact he is a very versatile defender shouldn't be counted against him.
Yes he is no Tim Duncan, but he is easily a top 5 defender.

I never remember Mike Bibby be turned into a God through a lot of fake hype, when Sacramento was one of the best offensive teams.
Amare and Webber are about the same players, both teams were all offense no defense, but anyone in a right state of mind wouldn't have given a thought to Mike Bibby being a MVP.
He was good pg, that could shoot, in very talented team, pretty much like Nash.

What I laugh about Nash statements, MVP is media given award. NBA titles are earn on the basketball court, so you should judge a player on awards that are handed out, instead of earning it . Makes sense.

You do realize that steals and rebounding aren't the same as defense, right? Marion rebounded like a PF, but that was basically it. And using steals to measure D? Really? I guess AI is a better defender than a prime Bruce Bowen. The point is that Marion was still way too small to be any effective defender against real big men. In no way was he ever a top 5 defender at PF. He was always very undersized for the position.

Comparing Nash to Bibby shows a complete lack of knowledge on the two teams. The Kings offense ran mostly through Webber and Divac--so Webber and Divac deserved most of the credit for those teams (at least in those terms). That Kings team could have lost Bibby without really missing a beat because he wasn't the key to the team. By comparison, the Suns in those years looked pretty much lost whenever Nash was out. Nash was the much better player for the Suns and was much more important to their success than Bibby was for the Kings. Bibby was never anywhere near the playmaker that Nash was in his MVP years. That comparison is absurd, and to act like they were both just "PG's that could shoot" shows a clear bias against Nash.

The fact remains--take Nash off of that 05-06 Suns team, and they go from a 54 win team to likely a bottom feeder (probably not the very worst in the conference, but nowhere near the playoffs). He was more important to his team's success than any other player in the league. Therefore, he was the most valuable player.

[Optms]

My thought with this is he wouldn't be saying this at all if he were actually apart of a championship team.

[Clangus]

This is like a poor person saying "money can't buy you happiness" Anyone with $$ knows its BS.