Is this a travel?

[venky]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83552NrHUwY[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PysevCOeA#t=00m55s

Srry I'm pretty late in this thread and didn't read the whole thing. The answer is no, it's not a travel it's just great footwork. I can't believe half of the people on realgm think it's a travel.

It's because that half of realgm has never picked up a basketball in their lives.

[sixerswillrule]

Srry I'm pretty late in this thread and didn't read the whole thing. The answer is no, it's not a travel it's just great footwork. I can't believe half of the people on realgm think it's a travel.

It's because that half of realgm has never picked up a basketball in their lives.

If you think that the only people who think this is a travel are people who have never played basketball, then you're mistaken.
I also highly doubt that such a large percentage of people who love the game of basketball so much that they post on an online message board don't play regularly themselves.

[mepatrick]

jordan does the same move.. @ 6:00
even coach nick said it was a good move
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUrzrGh2-dA&feature=feedu[/youtube]

[bballmaniac27]

^ Pretty sad. It's by no means a conventional or easy move but I'm pretty sure most coaches teach it to their big guys. Seriously people, if that's a travel then Hakeem and Mchale would have averaged over 10 turnovers a game.

I use the same exact move during league games and pickup ball and I haven't been called for a travel once.

[deepblueday]

Oh yeah, I completely agree. I wasn't trying to act like I was better than anyone who still thought it was a travel because this was me 2 years ago in a thread just like this and I was more persistent than anyone in believing that it was an illegal move. I was just shocked to hear anyone argue differently because that's what I had thought from years of playing and watching basketball without seeing or hearing anything to show me otherwise.
There's a reason for confusion from so many people on this issue. You almost never see a player take full advantage of this move during a game. By that, I mean stopping, pivoting, picking up your pivot completely up into the air and in front of your body, and putting all your energy into jumping forward off of your non-pivot foot. It's just not done.
I'm honestly very curious to see what would happen if players started doing this much more often. I don't see it happening, though, because I have a feeling that they think just like many fans think, that it is a travel.

I know i aint acting nothing. It dont matter what people think in a pickup game, what matters is what people think around organized basketball. It is a rather basic move indeed. It's practiced A LOT, not only to use it in a game, but to develop co-ordination. It seems like an easy move, but in reality, it requires quite a bit coordination to pull off effectively, especially in a game situation, hence the rather seldom use of it in the NBA. Also, it's easier to do an up and under off of one leg which basically gives you the same result.
Saying some people in the NBA dont know this move? Im damn sure even Eddy Curry knows this move's not a travel. Probably any highschool kid too, that finds time to go to practice once in a while, instead of rolling a joint.

I disagree. There's a HUGE difference between how often this move should be used(fairly often considering how advantageous it can be) and how often this move actually is used(almost never). I don't think you can simply write off that difference as a result of it being a difficult move to perform(which I don't even agree with). There's gotta be more to it than that.

exactly. it seems by FIBA rules and by the letter of the NBA rulebook, this is not a travel. although it's pretty difficult for me to reconcile this with the lack of prevalence combined with the way I've always seen this move refereed, I can admit to being wrong. dirk's one foot fadeaway is a perfectly parallel example.

that said, I remember that Carmelo play, and the ensuing reaction from the players. I remember Zoran Planinic used to do this all the time when he first came into the NBA, pick up his dribble, pivot around, and then take a big forward step onto his non-pivot foot and shoot a floater. He was whistled virtually every time and stopped doing it. also, notice how when players pick up their dribble in a bad spot, are pressured and look to pass out of it, they'll often lean over, strain to see around the defense, stretching out as far as possible whilst keeping the tip of their pivot foot on the floor... do you think they do this because they realize they can simply take another step and lift it to pass? confusion exists on this issue.

btw although I hate to dignify all the, "lolz u never played organized ball" faggotry, I played in youth leagues through my senior year, starter since my junior year... this was never drilled that I can remember, definitely not by my HS coaches. we can speculate as to why you don't see this in NCAA or NBA games, but the answer is clearly not because it's too difficult/requires some insane amount of coordination or because it has no benefit.

[italianleather]

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/12/31/have-ball-will-travel-deron-williams/

Has someone posted this link already?

Deron does the same move and it's not called.

Quite frankly, I think it should be called a travel. But because the rule doesn't say anything about taking off on the other foot after having lited the pivot foot, the refs can't call a travel.

David Stern must clarify, or die...

Er... Maybe you should read the link you posted.

1) He stated at the beginning that "Deron seemed to have travelled". He is not sure.

2) He mentioned that the rules did not explicitly says that thats a travel

3) He said that some guy from NBA.com disagree wholeheartedly with him.

[deepblueday]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83552NrHUwY[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PysevCOeA#t=00m55s

Srry I'm pretty late in this thread and didn't read the whole thing. The answer is no, it's not a travel it's just great footwork. I can't believe half of the people on realgm think it's a travel.

read the comments. one dude said he bought one of that guys newer dvds and he makes sure to jump off two feet

[wallflower]

For those of you who are wondering why this isn't done as often as it should considering it gives such a great advantage, realize he is taking off on his off foot. Most players can't because they don't have the leg strength . Moreover, it requires a lot of patience to setup since your basically waiting for the defender to leave the ground and in a a direction that won't impede the step through, most coaches/offenses wouldn't allow for it.

[bballmaniac27]

I disagree. There's a HUGE difference between how often this move should be used(fairly often considering how advantageous it can be) and how often this move actually is used(almost never). I don't think you can simply write off that difference as a result of it being a difficult move to perform(which I don't even agree with). There's gotta be more to it than that.

The reason why you don't see it that often is because the up and under basically accomplishes the same thing. The two moves are basically the same with the exception that the player reverse pivots instead of front pivots as in an up and under. This move is indeed very hard to pull off in a real game. For most players it is a low percentage shot.

[bballmaniac27]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83552NrHUwY[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PysevCOeA#t=00m55s

Srry I'm pretty late in this thread and didn't read the whole thing. The answer is no, it's not a travel it's just great footwork. I can't believe half of the people on realgm think it's a travel.

read the comments. one dude said he bought one of that guys newer dvds and he makes sure to jump off two feet

lol I've seen almost all of his videos. This is the only one he has on finishing. Yea let's trust some random guy who makes a comment on a youtube video.

This guy is the lead trainer for Nike basketball. He works out with NBA players. You're telling me that he didn't know this was a travel before releasing his dvd? ok

[sixerswillrule]

I disagree. There's a HUGE difference between how often this move should be used(fairly often considering how advantageous it can be) and how often this move actually is used(almost never). I don't think you can simply write off that difference as a result of it being a difficult move to perform(which I don't even agree with). There's gotta be more to it than that.

The reason why you don't see it that often is because the up and under basically accomplishes the same thing. The two moves are basically the same with the exception that the player reverse pivots instead of front pivots as in an up and under. This move is indeed very hard to pull off in a real game. For most players it is a low percentage shot.

I'm not talking about the move by Kobe specifically.

I'm talking about:

You almost never see a player take full advantage of this move during a game. By that, I mean stopping, pivoting, picking up your pivot completely up into the air and in front of your body, and putting all your energy into jumping forward off of your non-pivot foot. It's just not done.

The common up and under is far from as obvious as what I'm describing. With the common up and under(even with Hakeem and McHale like you mentioned), players come reasonably close to jumping off of both feet at the same time. With those moves that you typically see, the player may put more weight onto the non-pivot when jumping forward, but the original pivot is still behind your body so it doesn't look very obvious. If you pick pick up your pivot completely and bring that leg in front of you, jumping 100% off of your non-pivot, you're able to cover much more area when you jump and you're performing it far more blatantly. This is something that you simply (almost) never see in the NBA.

[deepblueday]

to me, you're just as random as that guy. im entirely unfamiliar with that person or his dvds. the point is, half the comments on that video are guys saying they've always been taught this was a travel. these are people looking up skill drills on youtube. I think can safely assume at least some of those people are heavily involved in the game and play quite often.

[bballmaniac27]

to me, you're just as random as that guy.

ok cool. So how do you explain all the other videos posted by other people plus the official NBA rules then? Just admit you're wrong and move on.

[deepblueday]

to me, you're just as random as that guy.

ok cool. So how do you explain all the other videos posted by other people plus the official NBA rules then? Just admit you're wrong and move on.

I did. I've always been under the mistaken impression that it was a travel. I think this thread has shown pretty clearly that it isn't. I think it's also shown pretty clearly that many people who've played and watched the game for a long time think that it is.

[bballmaniac27]

to me, you're just as random as that guy.

ok cool. So how do you explain all the other videos posted by other people plus the official NBA rules then? Just admit you're wrong and move on.

I did. I've always been under the mistaken impression that it was a travel. I think this thread has shown pretty clearly that it isn't. I think it's also shown pretty clearly that many people who've played and watched the game for a long time think that it is.

Ok well at least everyone on realgm can agree that it isn't a travel. I have played basketball all my life and I've never met anyone who's knowledgeable about the game call the move a travel. I don't know, maybe in other parts of the world they coach differently.

[Pimpwerx]

FFS, it's just counting steps, guys.

Planting the pivot is the first step. You can't take another step until the pivot leaves the ground. Whether that's performed by just lifting the pivot, or lifting both doesn't matter. You can't take the second step until you move the pivot, so you can't travel until then.

When you drag your foot, it counts as a step since you've moved the pivot. That's not happening here.

You can pivot around all you want on that foot, but all those little jab steps don't mean anything since they're not counted as steps until the pivot is lifted. And you can't travel for a 3rd step until you bring the pivot foot back down again.

This also came up in a breakdown of a Wade bucket that saw him capture the dribble, take a step with his left, then he either spun or something, but without putting his right foot down, he took a second step with his left, and shot it. It was two steps, but he technically lifted and replanted his pivot foot. The question was whether or not that's a travel. Two steps with the same foot is a travel by one rule, but not by another.

So I believe the rule really just tries to establish a few criteria for counting the number of steps. 2 steps is the hard-and-fast rule. So IMO that Wade move wouldn't be a travel either, since it was just 2 steps. That's my take on it. PEACE.

[Father Time]

Imagine you're dribbling the ball. You drive left, plant your right foot (pivot foot), pivot, plant your left foot while lifting pivot foot (second step), jump off second foot and shoot the layup. That's a legal spin move into a shot, but has the exact same footwork as Kobe's play.

Notice that if the original pivot foot comes back down, that's a third step and travel. Kobe's play was clean.

[Father Time]

FFS, it's just counting steps, guys.

Planting the pivot is the first step. You can't take another step until the pivot leaves the ground. Whether that's performed by just lifting the pivot, or lifting both doesn't matter. You can't take the second step until you move the pivot, so you can't travel until then.

When you drag your foot, it counts as a step since you've moved the pivot. That's not happening here.

You can pivot around all you want on that foot, but all those little jab steps don't mean anything since they're not counted as steps until the pivot is lifted. And you can't travel for a 3rd step until you bring the pivot foot back down again.

This also came up in a breakdown of a Wade bucket that saw him capture the dribble, take a step with his left, then he either spun or something, but without putting his right foot down, he took a second step with his left, and shot it. It was two steps, but he technically lifted and replanted his pivot foot. The question was whether or not that's a travel. Two steps with the same foot is a travel by one rule, but not by another.

So I believe the rule really just tries to establish a few criteria for counting the number of steps. 2 steps is the hard-and-fast rule. So IMO that Wade move wouldn't be a travel either, since it was just 2 steps. That's my take on it. PEACE.

Pretty much what I said.. the play is two steps, which isn't traveling.

[dangermouse]

Damn, came into this thread expecting LeBron James and all I got was Kobe Bryant with some nice footwork.

[hayden]

jordan does the same move.. @ 6:00
even coach nick said it was a good move
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUrzrGh2-dA&feature=feedu[/youtube]

haha Jordan actually travels on this play. His pivot foot takes a small step as he's spinning back for the layup. Sneaky...