The Official James Harden Thread

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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#401 » by Doctor MJ » Sat Nov 3, 2012 11:19 pm

Weems wrote:I'm one of the most staunch (admittedly delusional) Harden homers, but I'm disturbed. Sample size and opponent strength be damned, producing like that on such an abysmal offensive team is absurd. I'd have no reservations, even prior to last season, calling him a 22 PPG scorer on elite-elite efficiency on almost any other team, but the Rockets are a brutal fit. He's going to struggle catastrophically on a team starting Asik/Patterson/Parsons/Lin.


This is an odd post. "catastrophically"? Dude, he's obviously going to come back down to earth, but if you aren't seeing catastrophically bad fit-based struggling immediately when a team is thrown together then clearly they can function together on a fundamental level.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#402 » by Bball Reasons » Sat Nov 3, 2012 11:38 pm

Weems wrote:I'm one of the most staunch (admittedly delusional) Harden homers, but I'm disturbed. Sample size and opponent strength be damned, producing like that on such an abysmal offensive team is absurd. I'd have no reservations, even prior to last season, calling him a 22 PPG scorer on elite-elite efficiency on almost any other team, but the Rockets are a brutal fit. He's going to struggle catastrophically on a team starting Asik/Patterson/Parsons/Lin.

Very strange post coming from a Harden homer.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#403 » by Ozark » Sun Nov 4, 2012 12:04 am

Remember when OKC fans like me, and statheads used to come on here and tell everybody how awesome James Harden was?

And how people said : "lulz, he isn't as good as Monta or Joe Johnson"

Told ya so.

Told ya so.

Told ya so.

All night long.

And for those who say teams are now, of all times, going to start scouting and gameplanning Harden (duh, think this hasn't happened already?) - thus forcing him to put up inefficient mid range J's -

Harden DOES NOT DO THIS. He DOES NOT DO THIS because he has the tools and ability to select only the most efficient shots - which I got lambasted for suggesting is a conscious decision on Harden's part. Have you looked at the shot chart? There is no higher B-ball IQ in the league. I'm an OKC fan and kicking myself in the azz right now.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#404 » by M4P » Sun Nov 4, 2012 12:18 am

Ozark wrote:Remember when OKC fans like me, and statheads used to come on here and tell everybody how awesome James Harden was?

And how people said : "lulz, he isn't as good as Monta or Joe Johnson"

Told ya so.

Told ya so.

Told ya so.

All night long.

And for those who say teams are now, of all times, going to start scouting and gameplanning Harden (duh, think this hasn't happened already?) - thus forcing him to put up inefficient mid range J's -

Harden DOES NOT DO THIS. He DOES NOT DO THIS because he has the tools and ability to select only the most efficient shots - which I got lambasted for suggesting is a conscious decision on Harden's part. Have you looked at the shot chart? There is no higher B-ball IQ in the league. I'm an OKC fan and kicking myself in the azz right now.

it's funny how people think that teams are going to just start gameplanning for Harden now, as if they haven't before. This is nothing like when Lin randomly exploded in NY because Harden has already been in the league for 3 years now...
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#405 » by tsherkin » Sun Nov 4, 2012 12:34 am

M4P wrote:it's funny how people think that teams are going to just start gameplanning for Harden now, as if they haven't before. This is nothing like when Lin randomly exploded in NY because Harden has already been in the league for 3 years now...


I think the point that coming in and playing a lot as a second-unit guy in short bursts gives a player a different image in the mind of the guys game-planning. Who do you think they are more interesting in focusing their attention on? The 31 mpg bench guy or Durant and Westbrook, who take the lion's share of the shots and possessions? That's an easy one.

He's been scouted, for sure, but he's going to get different levels of attention as the #1 guy, especially on a weaker overall offensive team. We can talk, as some do, about the lineups with whom Harden played a lot, but the fact remains that he still played alongside Durant alone for over 1,000 of his 1,946 minutes. That's still a large sample of minutes where he was playing with someone who took up a HUGE amount of defensive attention and he won't have anything like that this season. It'll be very interesting to see how this plays out over the length of the season. Clearly, Harden's got the talent to ball at a high level regardless, but as a response to Ozark's rant, if a player could get to the rim endlessly on the basis of footwork, physical tools and screens, Wade would have done it all game long... and from 07 forward, Wade still had 3 seasons of 7.0+ FGA/g from 16-23 feet and up to 3.3 from 10-15 feet.

In his BEST season (2009, 30.2 ppg, scoring title, 57.4% TS, he took 7.5 FGA/g at the rim, 1.4 from 3-9 feet, 1.7 from 10-15 feet, 7.8 from 16-23 feet and 3.5 3PA.

Now, Harden probably won't try to score 30 ppg, so I doubt he'll take 22 FGA/g, but he's still going to be obliged to increase his 3PA/g and his shots from 10-23 feet if he's expecting to take a lot more than the 10.1 FGA/g he attempted last season. It's easy to keep your shot selection limited over a lower volume like that, but it will grow more difficult over time for him to maintain a shot selection of "at the rim or from 3" the whole season if he is looking to expand his scoring role from what he managed in OKC (where he wasn't even shooting 12 FGA36).
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#406 » by SunKing » Sun Nov 4, 2012 1:10 am

Watch the first half tonight, 15 points on 6-13, not a bad half. That's the entire problem of when you're a number 1 option and why he can't keep being a 66TS% player while an alpha. That's just a volume question.

The last 3 shots he missed were a missed backdoor lay up just like those he made in first two games, a counter with his killing eurostep that just didn't go in and a jumper that go in and out. He did nothing wrong, he took advantage of the situation and shot high percentage shots but you can't just make them all.

Nevertheless still impressed by him.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#407 » by tsherkin » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:24 am

After 4 quarters tonight:

22/5/5, 8/22 FG, 1/5 3P, 5/8 FT. 43.1% TS.

Going into OT now.

Anyone want to overreact to game 3? :D
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#408 » by orangeparka » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:38 am

Lol, just saw the stats. As a neutral fan, can't say I'm surprised.

Haters will have a field day though.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#409 » by tsherkin » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:40 am

Well, just like the first two games, this one can't really be said to mean much. He was so hot over his first two games that a game like this was almost inevitable. Nice to see the rebounding, passing and basic shot distribution looking reasonably similar, though.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#410 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:41 am

Eh he missed like 7 point blank layups- I wouldn't point to this game as the see Harden can't handle it game.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#411 » by tsherkin » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:43 am

Finished 8/24 FG, 1/6 3P, 7/10 FT. 25/6/5 with 5 turnovers. Looked sloppy in OT, too. 0/2 from the field (0/1 from 3), a rebound, 2 TOV and 2/2 FT. Not his best showing. 41 minutes, again, so now 41.7 mpg over the first 3 games. Houston can't keep playing him 40+ mpg and expect good things.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#412 » by tsherkin » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:44 am

UGA Hayes wrote:Eh he missed like 7 point blank layups- I wouldn't point to this game as the see Harden can't handle it game.


Precisely. This game is not indicative of anything, any more so than were the first two.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#413 » by fallacy » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:45 am

While Harden is probably somewhere in between the first two games and tonight, it's not helpful to Harden that the first decent team he plays he falls off a cliff.


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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#414 » by Krodis » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:45 am

Yeah, I mean if your issue with Harden maintaining his success is stamina, then this is probably a good game to point to, as he was clearly winded and missed some really easy layups. If your issue is skill, then Harden still pretty much got what he want (other than the layups actually going in) until he totally ran out of gas in overtime.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#415 » by tsherkin » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:49 am

Krodis wrote:Yeah, I mean if your issue with Harden maintaining his success is stamina, then this is probably a good game to point to, as he was clearly winded and missed some really easy layups. If your issue is skill, then Harden still pretty much got what he want (other than the layups actually going in) until he totally ran out of gas in overtime.



I think that stamina would be an issue for almost anyone playing 41-42 mpg over 3 games in 5 days, the last of which as the second part of a back-to-back. That's a grueling schedule, coupled with those minutes and a back-to-back. I mean, yikes.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#416 » by RoyalWun » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:51 am

No credit to Portland actually being a better team than Detroit and Atlanta?
Dammit...:

I've got Nurkic fever now.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#417 » by Krodis » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:54 am

RoyalWun wrote:No credit to Portland actually being a better team than Detroit and Atlanta?

He still got layup attempts, so unless Portland has magic powers to influence the wind, I'm not sure this has all that much to do with it. If he makes 4 of the layups he missed, he ends up 12-22 for 32 points and they win in regulation.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#418 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:55 am

^ Portland didn't really do all that good of a job stopping him, although they did a decent job on everyone else.

Also its comical how bad asik is on offense-I haven't seen a guy miss point blank shots by that much in a long time.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#419 » by Guy986 » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:57 am

Harden was dead tired. Didn't help that he turned his ankle. Like others said he missed 5 or 6 point blank layup.
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Re: The Official James Harden Thread 

Post#420 » by Lightning25 » Sun Nov 4, 2012 2:58 am

Guy986 wrote:Harden was dead tired. Didn't help that he turned his ankle. Like others said he missed 5 or 6 point blank layup.

For the record, he missed those point blank layups BEFORE he turned his ankle. Harden was gassed but I do think that's a problem and it's not something you can just shrug off. Harden probably didn't condition himself for these type of minutes.

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