2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread

[Michael Lucky]

I know this has been said before but it really is these over the top comparisons that leads to so much hate for players. Doncic clearly looks like he will be a really good player in this league, but enough with the comparisons.

[mademan]

DSJ?? You put your best players on the floor. You can never have enough ball handlers and creators on the court.

So DSJ is a better playmaker than Doncic? I thought Doncic was supposed to be an elite playmaker... If DSJ is better, than I guess it makes sense.

Was Irving a better playmaker than LeBron? Some of you should really try harder trolling, or at least be funny by comparing the opponent to HS basketball. At least that shows creativity.

Man the dude is slooooowwwww. If he can be a star at the NBA level, more respect to him. I just dont see it happening. He'll always have a place in the league because of his skill and BBIQ, but that lack of athleticism and explosiveness will hold him back from being a star imo

Possible, but the league has seen many superstars who weren't elite athletes in the classic sense. Bird and Magic weren't overly athletic, Curry isn't a run and jump athlete, post-injury Paul isn't blowing by anyone because he's quick, and Nash wasn't great athleticially either. That's possibly five of the top 10 GOAT offensive players. Of course the small Guards are still a bit quicker, but they also don't/didn't have the same body to absorb contact or shoot over people.

Doncic is already great at deceleration – something Harden is famously great at, and he's also not a super-quick Guard. Harden, as Doncic possibly as well, also has the strength to cause all kinds of problems for opponents when driving to the rim. He's also a master of angles and manipulating defenses. If Doncic can get anywhere close to his level in that regard, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to become an offensive superstar after a couple years of NBA strength and conditioning programs if Harden can be one. Doncic skill-set certainly shares some similarities with Harden's.

Of course getting to that level is extremely difficult to achieve, and Doncic might never get there. But I do believe there's a path which can lead him to superstardom despite a relative lack of quickness, we've seen it before.

People always point to the exception. There's a reason its the exception.

[Archx]

Why is everyone so surprised with Doncic? He keeps doing what he did for Real Madrid... And from playmaking point of view i think he hasn't even shown 30% of what he can do.

[ZB9]

Giannis and Simmons are not Europeans.

Giannis is from Greece. Greece is in Europe.

[Antinomy]

Man, when he gets himself in NBA shape...

Hasn’t he been “playing himself into shape” for like 2 years now?

[Johnny Firpo]

Giannis and Simmons are not Europeans.

Giannis is from Greece. Greece is in Europe.

We've been over this since, but thx. for the much needed input fellow Mavs fan.

[The-Power]

People always point to the exception. There's a reason its the exception.

I listed six players with arguments for having a top-10 offensive peak. How's that pointing to exceptions? Prospects becoming stars is the exception anyway. Hence, your logic applies to every prospect. For every great athlete becoming a star we have dozens similarly gifted athletes never becoming a star. If you're skeptical of Doncic' superstardom, that's fine. But I feel like you only bring up arguments like these when it suits your agenda and not consistently considering this response you gave.

[mademan]

People always point to the exception. There's a reason its the exception.

I listed six players with arguments for having a top-10 offensive peak. How's that pointing to exceptions? Prospects becoming stars is the exception anyway. Hence, your logic applies to every prospect. For every great athlete becoming a star we have dozens similarly gifted athletes never becoming a star. If you're skeptical of Doncic' superstardom, that's fine. But I feel like you only bring up arguments like these when it suits your agenda and not consistently considering this response you gave.

hmmm...what agenda do i have?

You brought up 6 players. 2 of them played before the entire league was full of super athletes. 1 of them is the greatest at what he does (shooting). And 2 others defy NBA logic. Pointing to them and saying "well they did it, so can he" is foolish. Doncic is not athletic in the NBA sense. That is a whole he is going to have to climb out of. Trying to pigeon hole me into some group who has something against Doncic, which is what youre going for with the whole agenda angle (lol) doesnt change that fact.

[WarriorGM]

People always point to the exception. There's a reason its the exception.

I listed six players with arguments for having a top-10 offensive peak. How's that pointing to exceptions? Prospects becoming stars is the exception anyway. Hence, your logic applies to every prospect. For every great athlete becoming a star we have dozens similarly gifted athletes never becoming a star. If you're skeptical of Doncic' superstardom, that's fine. But I feel like you only bring up arguments like these when it suits your agenda and not consistently considering this response you gave.

hmmm...what agenda do i have?

You brought up 6 players. 2 of them played before the entire league was full of super athletes. 1 of them is the greatest at what he does (shooting). And 2 others defy NBA logic. Pointing to them and saying "well they did it, so can he" is foolish. Doncic is not athletic in the NBA sense. That is a whole he is going to have to climb out of. Trying to pigeon hole me into some group who has something against Doncic, which is what youre going for with the whole agenda angle (lol) doesnt change that fact.

It seems you would agree that the players mentioned are among the best ever creators and playmakers seen in the NBA but that they aren't super athletic. That list however is so chock full of the greatest playmakers ever that it would seem that not only can one be an all-time great without being super athletic, one might argue it isn't even necessary and that other traits and skills are more important.

[amcoolio]

So, Miles Bridges is pretty good. 21/6 on 8-10 shooting, 4-5 from 3. Smart player and physical too

[Kalela]

Miles Bridges is looking really good. Crazy athleticism coupled with awesome motor. Obviously not as good at this stage in his career but he reminds me of Charles Barkley.

[NPZ]

You moving goal posts dictating whos euro and whos not.
Like you straight up telling me a dude from Greece aint European lmao

And strawman semantics about casual fans.
Btw casual NBA fans know Manu.

I mean, come on, Giannis has African heritage, he is not your typical euro. Yes, technically he is, but from a fan standpoint, especially from an American fan's standpoint, he is not your average euro. Anyway, you haven't answered my question, why would Doncic not deserve the hype, when he literally won at every level he played so far, being the best player? I just don't understand why he wouldn't deserve the hype, and please don't say he hasn't played against NBA competition yet, because that's true for every hyped American prospect, and something tells me you don't protest them as much. I mean, come on, the Darko comparison? How is that relevant? Why don't you just come out and say it, you are skeptical because he's European?

The political term for when you wanna differentiate white from black is "ethnically white". Spaniards like Pau Gasol are ethnically white even though they speak Spanish. Lakers have two rookies from Germany, one of which is white, the other black, but both were born there. The nationality you can't take away from either, but their lineages are still obviously different.

[Goudelock]

Robert Williams is raw as sushi and it's obvious that his conditioning isn't up to par, but he's so freaking athletic that I can see him being a contributor for the team in 5-10 minute stretches. He gives them that vertical/above the rim dimension that none of their other bigs give them (except for MAYBE Theiss).

[PierceFan4ever]

Rob Williams looks like he might crack the Celtics rotation at some point.

Miles Bridges looked great today, still early, but back to back preseason games he’s looked good against the Celtics. Some teams might regret not picking him if he shows up in the season

[Dundalis]

Man the dude is slooooowwwww. If he can be a star at the NBA level, more respect to him. I just dont see it happening. He'll always have a place in the league because of his skill and BBIQ, but that lack of athleticism and explosiveness will hold him back from being a star imo

Demonstrably not true. He has a slow first step. Does not equate to being slow all around. He's already proven he has very good end to end court speed when he hits the break. You can say well he did it against a chinese team, but it's a core feature of his skillset that he WILL use throughout his NBA career, so when he leads transitions in a Ben Simmons like fashion against NBA teams going coast to coast and finishing or dishing (or pulling up for the jumper which isn't so much Simmons like), will you still say he's slow?

He can't quite get to any place on the court like Simmons can, but he has a jumper which mitigates that. His handles and his passing is every bit on Simmons level.

[Dundalis]

Doncic has a good handle for his size but he needs to protect the ball better when he drives the lane. He doesn't have the explosive burst but he has his ways to maneuver to his spots. He is a jack of all trades right now.

He has an elite skill, it's his passing. So jack of all trades doesn't quite fit for me. Needs to be given far more ball handling duties than he was this game to really show it off though.

[drekwins]

Isn’t he supposed to be some goat PG? Like Ben Simmons but can shoot 3’s? No? Why isn’t he playing PG?

DSJ?? You put your best players on the floor. You can never have enough ball handlers and creators on the court.

So DSJ is a better playmaker than Doncic? I thought Doncic was supposed to be an elite playmaker... If DSJ is better, than I guess it makes sense.

How do you draw that conclusion? lol LBJ isn't the PG... Larry Bird wasn't a PG... the position that he plays makes no difference. It's all about getting the best 5 on the court. Fortunately for the Mavs, since Doncic is 6-8 or 6-9, they have the luxury of being able to play both. That versatility is part of what makes Doncic so awesome.

[Promezclan]

The political term for when you wanna differentiate white from black is "ethnically white". Spaniards like Pau Gasol are ethnically white even though they speak Spanish. Lakers have two rookies from Germany, one of which is white, the other black, but both were born there. The nationality you can't take away from either, but their lineages are still obviously different.

I'm pretty sure the term is "race" - not that complicated. And why are we trying to take away black peoples' nationality exactly?

[Patsfan1081]

Giannis and Simmons are not Europeans.

Giannis is from Greece. Greece is in Europe.

Well his parents were Nigerian and for some reason he and his brothers were never granted Greek citizenship growing up, kind of a odd situation.

[Milk]

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