Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

[HotRocks34]

Just to clarify my own position. Based on what we know now.

- Don't think virus was created in a lab
- Do think virus came out of a lab (lab doing research on naturally-occurring coronaviruses)
- Don't think it was a bio-weapon
- Don't think it was intentionally released
- Do think it was accidentally released, likely because of poor safety protocols

[HotRocks34]

This guy basically broke the story on "investigations going on about the virus coming from a lab." He has very good sources. Just going to post these tweets:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

He's not saying he's endorsing these views, but people (credible people) are telling him this, it seems.

For now, I'm sticking with "naturally-occurring virus being worked on at the lab accidentally leaked out." We'll see where things go from here.

[shakes0]

You cannot, do not, and never will test to prove a negative like that. The burden of proof is to make a case for something. Now if you have evidence that this wasn't natural, well then that would open up discussion of other possibilities, but we haven't even established that.

And that is not evidence..

FYI but as already said but I'll repeat. If this came from a bat in a lab that they were studying, then it came from bats, not from the lab.

Mostly true with the last part. If it came from a bat, leaking out of the lab, then by all accounts the outbreak came from the lab. Yes, the virus is from bats, but that's a dishonest way to categorize it.

If I have a pet tiger and the tiger escapes (or gets walked outside on a leash, then escapes) and kills your daughter, you would say "The Tiger is responsible, not the handler". If a **** didn't own a tiger as a pet, it wouldn't of happened. If the **** didn't secure the tiger from getting out to the public, he's at fault. If it wasn't transported there from 1000 KM unnaturally (these bats live FAR away), the bats themselves are pretty irrelevant other than a source of the virus in the beginning.

I don’t see much difference between a scientist being bitten or otherwise exposed to a bat as opposed to exposure duting farming, by keeping a bat captive or exposure at a wet market other than disagreeing with animal research on ethical grounds, not that the other practices are high water marks ethically either.

If they had isolated the virus, had it in viable form and it escaped the lab somehow then that is definitely negligent I would agree, but have as yet seen no evidence that this is likely. The Chinese can and have pointed out the summary closure of an American virology lab by the CDC fon safety grounds, although their conspiracy theory regarding that lab problem, and the Wuhan military games is also out their/wacky as well imo.

Hmm, the bolded text fits perfectly with the tweet a few posts back about the Chinese burying evidence. If there was no negligence then why would China be covering it up and burying evidence. Where there's smoke there's usually fire.

Occams razor once again.

[13th Man]

Read on Twitter

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

This is disgusting. I hate it when corporations censor **** based on a political agenda. People are not allowed to posts opinions or facts anymore if it goes against your agenda.

This is extremely dangerous as they could be helping out an enemy and costing many lives without knowing it.

[Kabookalu]

When people see the word altered in relation to pathogens, their mind delves into a DaVinci rabbit hole where this was all meticulously planned by a mastermind organization or government. I'm no virologist, but the subject is very complicated. Last page I said there were hundreds of strains of coronavirus found in a cave in China, but it's more like there's thousands of ingredients that can end up coalescing and mixing into something worse, such as COVID19. From my understanding, altering could just be mixing the strains with others to see how it functions and works, it doesn't mean it was nefarious and developed to be some sort of bioweapon.

[HotRocks34]

From my understanding, altering could just be mixing the strains with others to see how it functions and works, it doesn't mean it was nefarious and developed to be some sort of bioweapon.

Agreed, and great point.

[OkcSinceSGA]

If you want to make a case that labs studying diseases naturally created need better whatever...sure fine. The problem is when you say it came from a lab, it implies this was not naturally occurring.

Yet nobody has said that. Go dig up the last few threads. I've said all along it's far more likely it was originally a bat strain. The only thing I question is the HIV protein inserts reports. Was it modified to make human transmission way easier?

Even if this is not the case, and we agree it was 100% naturally evolved, it's still coming out of the lab. Therefore people who were burned down as conspiracy theorists for saying this may be the case deserve an apology. As I posted above, even CNN is starting to backpeddle after their disinformation campaign.

We may never know for sure. We do know it's plausible now. Scientists literally went into wet markets and interviewed locals and the locals said bats aren't eaten there. That's not conclusive proof, but when you factor that horseshoe bats live FAR away, it's not likely a legit food source.

If it came out of a lab it could just have easily happened naturally. And thus while it is an interesting story, there's not much more to it. The reason why the press shuts this stuff down is because it leads people to think it was manipulated and that's what caused it. That's the concern and that's what they want to avoid becoming a thing. Also news tend to want to wait for FACTS before they start letting things spread. As actual facts come, then we can reasonably discuss things that are outside the box and make sure to discuss them as reasonably as possible.

I'm crying with laughter at the news usually wanting to wait for facts. Yes, this explains the million retractions they've made over the years for jumping the gun.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

[13th Man]

Just to clarify my own position. Based on what we know now.

- Don't think virus was created in a lab
- Do think virus came out of a lab (lab doing research on naturally-occurring coronaviruses)
- Don't think it was a bio-weapon
- Don't think it was intentionally released
- Do think it was accidentally released, likely because of poor safety protocols

From the info that I've read thus far, I'm leaning towards this as well but you never know what the level of deviousness that they're capable of. Kind of like the more trust that you put into a woman, the worse that they will burn you lol. I wouldn't put anything past them at this point, you can't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

At best, the way that they covered up this mess is hugely irresponsible, negligible and criminal.

[OkcSinceSGA]

From my understanding, altering could just be mixing the strains with others to see how it functions and works, it doesn't mean it was nefarious and developed to be some sort of bioweapon.

Agreed, and great point.

Which is quite possible. Remember China isn't the only one doing it. Many countries are experimenting with it. Thing is these other countries have far more competent and secure labs. I don't think personally that China PURPOSELY did it. That would be one hell of a charge to decimate their own people. I think they were playing with dangerous **** without proper safety and patient zero walked out of that lab with it.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

[OkcSinceSGA]

Just to clarify my own position. Based on what we know now.

- Don't think virus was created in a lab
- Do think virus came out of a lab (lab doing research on naturally-occurring coronaviruses)
- Don't think it was a bio-weapon
- Don't think it was intentionally released
- Do think it was accidentally released, likely because of poor safety protocols

This has mostly been my position all along. The only difference I may have is I am 50/50 on if it was modified at all with those insertion sites. The other 50% that it was completely unmodified. Normally Zoonotic viruses take a lot longer to evolve well enough to do what this did.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

This is disgusting. I hate it when corporations censor **** based on a political agenda. People are not allowed to posts opinions or facts anymore if it goes against your agenda.

This is extremely dangerous as they could be helping out an enemy and costing many lives without knowing it.

Google, Twitter, , Facebook,and YouTube literally built a task force to silence people talking about this. A huge censoring took place. MANY people banned, had articles deleted off Google, videos defunded. China owns it all.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

[HotRocks34]

Just to clarify my own position. Based on what we know now.

- Don't think virus was created in a lab
- Do think virus came out of a lab (lab doing research on naturally-occurring coronaviruses)
- Don't think it was a bio-weapon
- Don't think it was intentionally released
- Do think it was accidentally released, likely because of poor safety protocols

From the info that I've read thus far, I'm leaning towards this as well but you never know what the level of deviousness that they're capable of. Kind of like the more trust that you put into a woman, the worse that they will burn you lol. I wouldn't put anything past them at this point, you can't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

At best, the way that they covered up this mess is hugely irresponsible, negligible and criminal.

I totally agree, on all points.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

This guy obviously has every reason to attack the government and is biased, but the bullet points are true and damning (besides #2 maybe). If this was a random bat soup WHY so much effort to delay, hide and obstruct?

[HotRocks34]

Just to clarify my own position. Based on what we know now.

- Don't think virus was created in a lab
- Do think virus came out of a lab (lab doing research on naturally-occurring coronaviruses)
- Don't think it was a bio-weapon
- Don't think it was intentionally released
- Do think it was accidentally released, likely because of poor safety protocols

This has mostly been my position all along. The only difference I may have is I am 50/50 on if it was modified at all with those insertion sites. The other 50% that it was completely unmodified. Normally Zoonotic viruses take a lot longer to evolve well enough to do what this did.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

I concur with you on the insertion stuff (saw that in a documentary). If that is true, it looks suspect (IMO). But I'm not a bio person and I'll wait until more comes out to draw further conclusions. For now, I need to see more to say "modified," even though I'm not ruling it out.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Just to clarify my own position. Based on what we know now.

- Don't think virus was created in a lab
- Do think virus came out of a lab (lab doing research on naturally-occurring coronaviruses)
- Don't think it was a bio-weapon
- Don't think it was intentionally released
- Do think it was accidentally released, likely because of poor safety protocols

This has mostly been my position all along. The only difference I may have is I am 50/50 on if it was modified at all with those insertion sites. The other 50% that it was completely unmodified. Normally Zoonotic viruses take a lot longer to evolve well enough to do what this did.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

I concur with you on the insertion stuff (saw that in a documentary). If that is true, it looks suspect (IMO). But I'm not a bio person and I'll wait until more comes out to draw further conclusions.

Top shelf researches in India from a research school published that paper with evidence of HIV protein inserts. Then after a couple days of intense pressure/scrutiny retracted their paper. It's listed now as "withdrawn". There was a huge silencing effort regarding this.

The next few days a TON of media outlets ripping it as conspiracy theory. If someone is a conspiracy theorist, it won't stand up to more information. Let them look foolish and they will be ignored. Reality is it's much easier to silence someone you can label as a crazed conspiracy theorist.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

[bidde]

Read on Twitter

This guy obviously has every reason to attack the government and is biased, but the bullet points are true and damning (besides #2 maybe). If this was a random bat soup WHY so much effort to delay, hide and obstruct?

That HIV stuff is pure conspiracy theory.

[molepharmer]

delete

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

This guy obviously has every reason to attack the government and is biased, but the bullet points are true and damning (besides #2 maybe). If this was a random bat soup WHY so much effort to delay, hide and obstruct?

That HIV stuff is pure conspiracy theory.

Not according to multiple published papers that were silenced, despite being from reputable sources. It's not pure conspiracy theory, it's plausible but not proven. As I said, I'm 50/50 on that.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

This guy obviously has every reason to attack the government and is biased, but the bullet points are true and damning (besides #2 maybe). If this was a random bat soup WHY so much effort to delay, hide and obstruct?

What's your evidence for the first bullet point (i.e. HIV) ? Pretty sure that HIV insertion has been debunked and the original article withdrawn by the authors.

#1 is plausible, although not proven so not gonna say it's undoubtedly right or wrong. I said last page I'm still 50/50 on the insertion sites. What I will say is it was never "debunked". Either insertion sites exist or not. There is no gray area, and multiple scientists identified them and published findings. If by debunked you mean silenced and withdrawn after intense pressure, sure it was debunked. That's not what it means at all though.