NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (part 5 - The Final-er MVP Countdown!)

[Sixerscan]

The Nuggets have also lost 4 of 5, 9 of 15.

With regards to the last 5 games, Jokic only played in one of those games (loss to the Rockets).

The best ability is availability.

But yeah I was responding to someone who was counting when Embiid didn’t play in the Sixers recent record. Also various other context around the post that you removed. Jokic was losing the straw poll, he needed to do something to flip votes, he did not.

[sircrocodile7]

I made an account a month ago, so I am finally here... As a greek, I am biased so there is that, but I have to make the argument why Jokic didnt deserve the MVP last year.
In my opinion a 6th seed MVP because of advanced stats was a disgrace quite frankly.

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid/Giannis last year. .

I already addressed this point and you didnt listen to what I said.
Giannis and Embiid beat more teams over 0.500 last year than Jokic did. Jokic was awarded an MVP for beating mostly tanking teams.
A win against the celtics or the nets (last year) for example is worth more for the Bucks and the Sixers compared to Jokic beating the San Antonio spurs twice.
Because a win against a team competing in the conference is worth more on the tiebreakers, so Giannis and Joel's victories brought them the 2-3 seed last year, while Jokic victories against tanking teams brought his team the 6th seed.
Basically the MVP voters through all the common sense arguments out of the window, to give an MVP to a 6th seed.
Might as well give out MVPs to John Wall or Arenas for beating tanking teams and getting to a 6th seed.
It was a robbery last year, so now that he is worthy of the award they cant give it to him again.

[losmi]

I made an account a month ago, so I am finally here... As a greek, I am biased so there is that, but I have to make the argument why Jokic didnt deserve the MVP last year.
In my opinion a 6th seed MVP because of advanced stats was a disgrace quite frankly.

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid/Giannis last year. .

I already addressed this point and you didnt listen to what I said.
Giannis and Embiid beat more teams over 0.500 last year than Jokic did. Jokic was awarded an MVP for beating mostly tanking teams.
A win against the celtics or the nets (last year) for example is worth more for the Bucks and the Sixers compared to Jokic beating the San Antonio spurs twice.
Because a win against a team competing in the conference is worth more on the tiebreakers, so Giannis and Joel's victories brought them the 2-3 seed last year, while Jokic victories against tanking teams brought his team the 6th seed.
Basically the MVP voters through all the common sense arguments out of the window, to give an MVP to a 6th seed.
Might as well give out MVPs to John Wall or Arenas for beating tanking teams and getting to a 6th seed.
It was a robbery last year, so now that he is worthy of the award they cant give it to him again.

They were 3-4 seed, not 2-3 seed. At least check the facts.

[sircrocodile7]

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid/Giannis last year. .

I already addressed this point and you didnt listen to what I said.
Giannis and Embiid beat more teams over 0.500 last year than Jokic did. Jokic was awarded an MVP for beating mostly tanking teams.
A win against the celtics or the nets (last year) for example is worth more for the Bucks and the Sixers compared to Jokic beating the San Antonio spurs twice.
Because a win against a team competing in the conference is worth more on the tiebreakers, so Giannis and Joel's victories brought them the 2-3 seed last year, while Jokic victories against tanking teams brought his team the 6th seed.
Basically the MVP voters through all the common sense arguments out of the window, to give an MVP to a 6th seed.
Might as well give out MVPs to John Wall or Arenas for beating tanking teams and getting to a 6th seed.
It was a robbery last year, so now that he is worthy of the award they cant give it to him again.

They were 3-4 seed, not 2-3 seed. At least check the facts.

3-4 alright, my point still stands, its way much better than 6.
All stars putting up stats and carrying teams of nobodies to the 6th seed, has happened many times before in the NBA history, and Jokic just happened to be rewarded with a back to back MVP for this, and rightfully so people like Perkins started asking questions. He didnt argue it the way he should had , but obvious subconscious bias might had played a role in that decision.
So after this moronic MVP win last year, they cant give it to him this year even though he deserves it.
Outside of Westbrook who broke a historical record no player the last 30 years had won with a seed that low, not to mention it was a backtoback MVP win lol. Dude was rewarded for his historical accomplishment of winning 42 games , 30 of which were against San Antonio, young OKC, Pelicans, Portland , the garbage Lakers, Houston and last year's Sacramento.
No matter how you look at it, that year's MVP was a robbery.

[Infinite Llamas]

Show me this list of nobodies leading their team to nearly 50 wins and the 6th seed. Love to see it.

[moderndarwin]

Congrats Embiid. Finally anyone not named Joker. Was turning that award into a joke.

[dygaction]

Ok, but what about his defense compared to those other guys you mentioned? Also, I question his leadership abilities. Doesn't seem like he has what it takes to motivate the guys around him like some of the all time greats.

Rings are a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Once again:

Read on Twitter

How many championships do you expect Jokic's teams to have won with THAT supporting cast?

Rings matter or at least a long and deep history of consistent playoff runs if talking all time greats. Being a winner is important in the legacy conversation especially comparing multiple time MVPs. Then how you win those chips matter as well eg. Giannis' ring is worth more than KDs rings in that discussion.

Remember, the NBA is more star driven as far as success of team than any other professional sport as well. You NEED MVP caliber players to take you anywhere, so its definitely more fair to use winning rings as a factor when comparing the top echelon of NBA greats. This is not baseball or football.

Jokic has a great supporting cast talent wise, they are young up and comers or just entering their prime. Injury makes them unreliable but doesn't make them poor talents. Murray, Porter and Gordon are at worst, fringe all-star caliber players in terms of potential. When they play, they are pretty damn good and important pieces who are getting better. Reality is Murray and Porter both have all-NBA team upside and they are young enough to see the horizon of that if they stay healthy. Jokic isn't playing with 40 year old Kyle Korvers like you all make it seem. Either way, it's Jokic's team and as a multiple time MVP, if he continues to never win it makes him not look like a winner from a legacy standpoint and puts focus on his flaws as to why he couldn't elevate his team in the needed ways when it mattered most. He could be like Nowitski or like Nash. How much better does Dirk's legacy look with possibly one of the greatest championships in NBA history as the best player on that team? I put him over Jokic because of it, over Barkley, Malone and Nash etc. Is anyone taking 2 time MVP Nash over 1 time MVP Dirk? You get the idea.

Nash also had so much more talent than Dirk ever had around him on his prime Sun teams and still failed to even get to the Finals. Dirk took a team of over the hill players and beat the Heatles.

That's too much exaggeration, change "at worst" to "at most", as the three combined 22 nba seasons never really sniffed all star once.

[Cubbies2120]

I made an account a month ago, so I am finally here... As a greek, I am biased so there is that, but I have to make the argument why Jokic didnt deserve the MVP last year.
In my opinion a 6th seed MVP because of advanced stats was a disgrace quite frankly.

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid/Giannis last year. .

I already addressed this point and you didnt listen to what I said.
Giannis and Embiid beat more teams over 0.500 last year than Jokic did. Jokic was awarded an MVP for beating mostly tanking teams.
A win against the celtics or the nets (last year) for example is worth more for the Bucks and the Sixers compared to Jokic beating the San Antonio spurs twice.
Because a win against a team competing in the conference is worth more on the tiebreakers, so Giannis and Joel's victories brought them the 2-3 seed last year, while Jokic victories against tanking teams brought his team the 6th seed.
Basically the MVP voters through all the common sense arguments out of the window, to give an MVP to a 6th seed.
Might as well give out MVPs to John Wall or Arenas for beating tanking teams and getting to a 6th seed.
It was a robbery last year, so now that he is worthy of the award they cant give it to him again.

Lol @ comparing apples to oranges. Duh, a win against Celtics > a win over the Spurs last year...just like a win against the Suns > a win against the Magic last year...

You know both conferences had tanking teams, right? 3 of the 5 worst teams in the league were in the East...

[Cubbies2120]

I already addressed this point and you didnt listen to what I said.
Giannis and Embiid beat more teams over 0.500 last year than Jokic did. Jokic was awarded an MVP for beating mostly tanking teams.
A win against the celtics or the nets (last year) for example is worth more for the Bucks and the Sixers compared to Jokic beating the San Antonio spurs twice.
Because a win against a team competing in the conference is worth more on the tiebreakers, so Giannis and Joel's victories brought them the 2-3 seed last year, while Jokic victories against tanking teams brought his team the 6th seed.
Basically the MVP voters through all the common sense arguments out of the window, to give an MVP to a 6th seed.
Might as well give out MVPs to John Wall or Arenas for beating tanking teams and getting to a 6th seed.
It was a robbery last year, so now that he is worthy of the award they cant give it to him again.

They were 3-4 seed, not 2-3 seed. At least check the facts.

3-4 alright, my point still stands, its way much better than 6.
All stars putting up stats and carrying teams of nobodies to the 6th seed, has happened many times before in the NBA history, and Jokic just happened to be rewarded with a back to back MVP for this, and rightfully so people like Perkins started asking questions. He didnt argue it the way he should had , but obvious subconscious bias might had played a role in that decision.
So after this moronic MVP win last year, they cant give it to him this year even though he deserves it.
Outside of Westbrook who broke a historical record no player the last 30 years had won with a seed that low, not to mention it was a backtoback MVP win lol. Dude was rewarded for his historical accomplishment of winning 42 games , 30 of which were against San Antonio, young OKC, Pelicans, Portland , the garbage Lakers, Houston and last year's Sacramento.
No matter how you look at it, that year's MVP was a robbery.

42 wins? You can't even be bothered to look it up? It was 46 wins that he played in, and the 2 wins without him were against the literal worst team in the league and the 5th worst in the league.

It's better than Giannis's 38 wins right? If we're making up numbers...

[Cubbies2120]

The Nuggets have also lost 4 of 5, 9 of 15.

With regards to the last 5 games, Jokic only played in one of those games (loss to the Rockets).

The best ability is availability.

But yeah I was responding to someone who was counting when Embiid didn’t play in the Sixers recent record. Also various other context around the post that you removed. Jokic was losing the straw poll, he needed to do something to flip votes, he did not.

When you're locked into seeding because you were so dominant early on (having a 7 game lead over 2nd), you get the luxury of sitting some games at the end of the year. Still played in more games than all other legitimate MVP candidates (Giannis/Embiid).

[Kurtz]

With regards to the last 5 games, Jokic only played in one of those games (loss to the Rockets).

The best ability is availability.

But yeah I was responding to someone who was counting when Embiid didn’t play in the Sixers recent record. Also various other context around the post that you removed. Jokic was losing the straw poll, he needed to do something to flip votes, he did not.

When you're locked into seeding because you were so dominant early on (having a 7 game lead over 2nd), you get the luxury of sitting some games at the end of the year. Still played in more games than all other legitimate MVP candidates (Giannis/Embiid).

*When you're locked into the first seed because you happen to play in the West.

In the East, Denver's current record would still have them fighting for home court with Cleveland.

[Wolfgang630]

The best ability is availability.

But yeah I was responding to someone who was counting when Embiid didn’t play in the Sixers recent record. Also various other context around the post that you removed. Jokic was losing the straw poll, he needed to do something to flip votes, he did not.

When you're locked into seeding because you were so dominant early on (having a 7 game lead over 2nd), you get the luxury of sitting some games at the end of the year. Still played in more games than all other legitimate MVP candidates (Giannis/Embiid).

*When you're locked into the first seed because you happen to play in the West.

In the East, Denver's current record would still have them fighting for home court with Cleveland.

That’s not really fair to say. Because if they were in that position they’d play out these last 2 weeks or so differently. But because they’re first with a big lead over the second seed they played it out the way they did.

[Kurtz]

When you're locked into seeding because you were so dominant early on (having a 7 game lead over 2nd), you get the luxury of sitting some games at the end of the year. Still played in more games than all other legitimate MVP candidates (Giannis/Embiid).

*When you're locked into the first seed because you happen to play in the West.

In the East, Denver's current record would still have them fighting for home court with Cleveland.

That’s not really fair to say. Because if they were in that position they’d play out these last 2 weeks or so differently. But because they’re first with a big lead over the second seed they played it out the way they did.

They did play their starters today and lost to Utah's extra tank lineup, but fair enough.

[Aliasego]

Embiid wins due to a great year, and not much separation.

Jokic should win based on stats, but it very, very close and don’t see people wanting to give it to him again.

Antentokounmpo imo is the best overall player and the hardest to replace, but the season taken individually will make people lean towards the first two.

[eyeatoma]

Lmao Jokic stans online in shambles...

Read on Twitter

?t=FiEbDGy7a6hB90583H7npQ&s=19

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[GiannisAnte34]

Is Embiid winning the mvp going to set a precedent for future MVP considerations? Before the standard was at least 71 games played, historically that ratio was never deviated from. I understand that there is the implementation of a minimum of 65 games looming. How significant will a body of work be vs narrative and stats? For example someone slogs through 78 games with weaker stats but someone fully load manages to meet 65 games but has more impressive stats. How significant will the extra games be looked at? Or in other words how big of a margin will somebody need to make up for games missed?

[eyeatoma]

Is Embiid winning the mvp going to set a precedent for future MVP considerations? Before the standard was at least 71 games played, historically that ratio was never deviated from. I understand that there is the implementation of a minimum of 65 games looming. How significant will a body of work be vs narrative and stats? For example someone slogs through 78 games with weaker stats but someone fully load manages to meet 65 games but has more impressive stats. How significant will the extra games be looked at? Or in other words how big of a margin will somebody need to make up for games missed?

Good question.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[BoatsNZones]

Embiid gets the MVP because we’re just bored of giving it to the actual MVP.

Congrats brother.

[Purch]

Is Embiid winning the mvp going to set a precedent for future MVP considerations? Before the standard was at least 71 games played, historically that ratio was never deviated from. I understand that there is the implementation of a minimum of 65 games looming. How significant will a body of work be vs narrative and stats? For example someone slogs through 78 games with weaker stats but someone fully load manages to meet 65 games but has more impressive stats. How significant will the extra games be looked at? Or in other words how big of a margin will somebody need to make up for games missed?

Bill Walton won with 58 games played. So your argument is confusing

[GiannisAnte34]

Is Embiid winning the mvp going to set a precedent for future MVP considerations? Before the standard was at least 71 games played, historically that ratio was never deviated from. I understand that there is the implementation of a minimum of 65 games looming. How significant will a body of work be vs narrative and stats? For example someone slogs through 78 games with weaker stats but someone fully load manages to meet 65 games but has more impressive stats. How significant will the extra games be looked at? Or in other words how big of a margin will somebody need to make up for games missed?

Bill Walton won with 58 games played. So your argument is confusing

It is a factor of 71/82 being the minimum, which calculates to 86.5%

Bill Walton played in I believe 70% of his games. It should be noted that this is the only deviation from 71/82 minimum (AI winning MVP) which happens 53 years ago.

Also noting that Bill Waltons team had a 70 win pace in games that he played in and a 27 win pace in games he was absent. I think that is a much different case than Embiid this year, where actually he has the lowest win pace in games he plays out of Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, and himself. Also the 76ers have the best record in games that he doesn’t play if I’m not mistaken?