Safe to say, Chet "Hologram" Holgrem > Paolo Banchero

[MrBigShot]

Paolo has been impressive and looks primed to get an all star nod, but chet is the more impactful player right now.

[basketballRob]

You're acting like Chet doesn't have to make those shots. He gets credit for creating them by being a 7-footer with range, certainly more credit than Shai does for throwing him the ball.

Shot creation also isn't the end-all-be-all, especially when it isn't paired with great efficiency. If Paolo's shot creation were so valuable the Magic wouldn't be better with him on the bench.

I normally enjoy inteligent debates/discussions BUT i have to draw the line at this slander.

It’s the truth. It’s not slander just because you don’t like hearing it.

Ironically, his net rating has been through the roof the last few games when Paolo has been playing 40 mpg because he gets some of those minutes against second units.

Have Chet make it through a few more b2bs and see how he's holding up.

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[golfreak]

The nerds have taken over the discourse, lol, comparing made up efficiency stats between a first option and third option? Tell me you haven't stepped on a court since middle school

Chet is a great role player, but that's what he's doing in OKC, playing a specific role while SGA leads the team. Banchero has to be the all-around number one option, and he's doing it better and better each month. Take SGA and Williams off the team, what is the record with Chet getting the highest usage? I don't think it's as good, let alone better than the Magic right now. And that's okay.

Read on Twitter

LOL at all the keyboard warriors with their "advanced stats".
Paolo literally have gone up another level while everybody on the team is injured but yet the nerds are still making arguments that "stats" show the Magic are better with Paolo on the bench. This type of absurdity can only be seen on this board.

[OrlMagic05]

So, I realize that this is a thread comparing two guys, but I really want to speak to a point about Paulo being the first option.

While it's certainly harder to score efficiently at volume, that doesn't mean that the guy scoring at volume for a pretty-good team is carrying them.

The Magic are losing when Paolo is on the court, and doing a lot better when he's off of it. If the team wasn't so good with Paolo playing bench, literally no one would be even thinking about Paolo as an all-star candidate.

I don't hate Paolo. I'm not saying he sucks as a future foundation. But fundamentally we're talking about a guy who has the primacy he has because the Magic expect him to one day be a franchise player, not because them putting him in that position makes them a playoff team.

Let me also be clear: I'm not saying you could take a random bench guy on the Magic, give him Paolo's role and he'd do better. From an all-star perspective, it's simply a question of whether the team's record should lead us to overlook the fact that Paolo isn't actually producing eye-popping stats when you factor everything in the box score in on the grounds that he's having more impact than the box score says. And instead the indicators are that he's having less impact than his solid-but-not-amazing box score indicates.

Zooming out to the comparison: I do think it's hard to judge them confidently against each other right now because they are in different roles, and that at this point I don't think either of them lines up as a guy to get an all-star nod. There's no doubt that the presence of Shai is making Chet's life easier whereas Paolo's having to be the actual focal point of opposing defenses, and that's something I think about with Chet regardless of who he's being compared against.

But I'll also say that if I'm OKC I'm more confident about Chet's place in my future than I am if I'm Orlando with Paolo. Chet doesn't have to be my offensive alpha to fit with what I have, and his defense is just obviously nice.

For the Magic, were I them, I'd be thrilled at the improvement I see this year on the whole and expect I'd keep going with the plan I have...but I wouldn't delude myself into thinking I already have contender-level stars on my roster. Paolo & co needs to get better, and while that might seem like a "duh" statement, what I'm trying to convey is that the Magic record and seeding is making people look to give more credit to the anointed future star when really I think the story of the Magic this year is about the collective team lead by their coach.

This might sound like a skeptical take, but it potentially makes the team even more exciting. If they're this good while losing the Paolo minutes, imagine how good they'll be if he starts impacting like star.

So because of Cole, AB, Goga, Suggs the magic are the 4th best team in the east? I get everyone wanting to use Advanced stats, but watch the game and you'd see how ridiculous that sounds. Paolo has carried the team through a crazy amount of injuries over the past two months and we are still the 4th best team in the east.

[clyde21]

honestly I would take Chet pretty easily if he stays healthy

[thelead]

The funny thing about this comparison is that they would complement each other perfectly on the court.

[_jin]

They're both where they should be, Paolo fits better on the Magic than the Thunder and vice versa for Chet.
Chet is better defensively and his rim protection is exactly what the Thunder needed to take that next step. Magic has tons of great defenders but needed a go to guy on offense and they got that with Paolo. And they're no slouch on the other side of the ball as well.
Both are gonna be perennial allstars and allnba candidates and both fanbases should be very happy with what they got.

[basketballRob]

Paolo, playing 38 mpg with a bunch of non scoring players, is probably in the top 10 player discussion. He's averaging 32/9/6 in his last 6 games. The offense is just to give Paolo the ball and have him create offense. They've been running 2 players at him 40' from the basket.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/paolo-banchero-last-6-games

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[tooler]

Ironically, his net rating has been through the roof the last few games when Paolo has been playing 40 mpg because he gets some of those minutes against second units.

This is the real takeaway. Paolo’s net rating likely suffers because he’s playing with Markelle Fultz, who needs to medically retire, or Anthony Black, which is like playing 4 on 5. Even Franz can’t space the floor right now since he’s reworking his shot. Meanwhile the Magic bench mob has been really strong this year with a lot of veterans. At least until they all got injured as well. Gotta love this organization.

With all the injuries, it’s given him an opportunity to play with players that at least try to space the floor.

All this has less to say about Paolo as a player and more to say about how much work the front office has to do to surround Paolo and Franz with good shooting. Still a lot left to do and a lot more improvements for Paolo to make.

[BrooklynDynasty]

lol yeah that absurd advanced stat like can you score efficiently.

Theres also the entire defensive side of the ball. It’s just not all that close at the moment. Paolo will be great in his own right but he’s not close to the impact of Chet.

Lets see how fast Chet's efficiency drops if he was the #1 option. Its not fair to compare efficiency when one guy is the go to player with the ball in his hand getting triple teamed to the other guy playing with an MVP PG like SGA. Of course efficiency will be better when you take 12 shots per game and 3 FT per game.

12 shots a game man... TWELVE. The entire thread should end on that note

I like Chet, better than Wemby certainly, but 12 shots a game is Grade-A, 100% cetified Role Player. You can't compare those to stars, you just can't. DeAndre Jordan shot a really high Made Up Field Goal Percentage too

[Hoop Hunter]

I underestimated both players by a mile. I was so wrong. I thought Pachero would be a bust, wow how stupid. Was not very high on Chet either. Both have been so good.

I was right about Keegan Murray and Mathurin, both becoming good players. Maybe right about Ivey, didn't care for him, but it''s still a little to early, he could turn it around.

[FrightCoward]

You can tell here who understands advanced stats and who just uses them to prove their agenda. Of course Paolo’s on/off numbers aren’t going to be great when he’s literally trying to tread water playing with Anthony Black, who is borderline useless offensively right now, as well as players like Bitadze and whatever random G Leaguers they currently have playing, lol. Paolo’s starting unit last night was Chuma Okeke, Goga Bitadze, Jalen Suggs, and Caleb Houstan and you’re punishing him for not having a better +/-? Absolute idiocy.

[RookieStar]

You're acting like Chet doesn't have to make those shots. He gets credit for creating them by being a 7-footer with range, certainly more credit than Shai does for throwing him the ball.

Shot creation also isn't the end-all-be-all, especially when it isn't paired with great efficiency. If Paolo's shot creation were so valuable the Magic wouldn't be better with him on the bench.

I normally enjoy inteligent debates/discussions BUT i have to draw the line at this slander.

It’s the truth. It’s not slander just because you don’t like hearing it.

Have you even watch our games? We are hurting when we don't have Paolo's gravity in our offense.

We literally dumped the ball to him during crunch time and ask him to do whatever. You really think we will be better if we had anybody else with the ball?

[robbie84]

Paolo is top 5 player potential for sure. So is Chet.
Way too early to say who'll be better player long term. both beasts.

[165bows]

Paolo is top 5 player potential for sure. So is Chet.
Way too early to say who'll be better player long term. both beasts.

Yeah I like them both a lot, not worth splitting hairs at this point.

[WillyJakkz]

So, I realize that this is a thread comparing two guys, but I really want to speak to a point about Paulo being the first option.

While it's certainly harder to score efficiently at volume, that doesn't mean that the guy scoring at volume for a pretty-good team is carrying them.

The Magic are losing when Paolo is on the court, and doing a lot better when he's off of it. If the team wasn't so good with Paolo playing bench, literally no one would be even thinking about Paolo as an all-star candidate.

I don't hate Paolo. I'm not saying he sucks as a future foundation. But fundamentally we're talking about a guy who has the primacy he has because the Magic expect him to one day be a franchise player, not because them putting him in that position makes them a playoff team.

Let me also be clear: I'm not saying you could take a random bench guy on the Magic, give him Paolo's role and he'd do better. From an all-star perspective, it's simply a question of whether the team's record should lead us to overlook the fact that Paolo isn't actually producing eye-popping stats when you factor everything in the box score in on the grounds that he's having more impact than the box score says. And instead the indicators are that he's having less impact than his solid-but-not-amazing box score indicates.

Zooming out to the comparison: I do think it's hard to judge them confidently against each other right now because they are in different roles, and that at this point I don't think either of them lines up as a guy to get an all-star nod. There's no doubt that the presence of Shai is making Chet's life easier whereas Paolo's having to be the actual focal point of opposing defenses, and that's something I think about with Chet regardless of who he's being compared against.

But I'll also say that if I'm OKC I'm more confident about Chet's place in my future than I am if I'm Orlando with Paolo. Chet doesn't have to be my offensive alpha to fit with what I have, and his defense is just obviously nice.

For the Magic, were I them, I'd be thrilled at the improvement I see this year on the whole and expect I'd keep going with the plan I have...but I wouldn't delude myself into thinking I already have contender-level stars on my roster. Paolo & co needs to get better, and while that might seem like a "duh" statement, what I'm trying to convey is that the Magic record and seeding is making people look to give more credit to the anointed future star when really I think the story of the Magic this year is about the collective team lead by their coach.

This might sound like a skeptical take, but it potentially makes the team even more exciting. If they're this good while losing the Paolo minutes, imagine how good they'll be if he starts impacting like star.

So because of Cole, AB, Goga, Suggs the magic are the 4th best team in the east? I get everyone wanting to use Advanced stats, but watch the game and you'd see how ridiculous that sounds. Paolo has carried the team through a crazy amount of injuries over the past two months and we are still the 4th best team in the east.

This and other "insight" stating why Paolo is not as good as Chet has been the most hilariously ridiculous things I've read in quite some time.

[mcmurphy]

the most ridiculous thing about all this alleged superiority of Chet over Banchero is that if you look at the NetRtg of Orlando's starting lineup it is +6.0 while that of OKC (with an MVP level player like Shai) is +5.9.

As a reference, Denver's starting lineup is +19.7.

[zero rings]

I normally enjoy inteligent debates/discussions BUT i have to draw the line at this slander.

It’s the truth. It’s not slander just because you don’t like hearing it.

Have you even watch our games? We are hurting when we don't have Paolo's gravity in our offense.

We literally dumped the ball to him during crunch time and ask him to do whatever. You really think we will be better if we had anybody else with the ball?

And how is that working for you? The Magic are 21st in offense, and 26th in crunch time offense. You may be hurting at times but it doesn’t look like Paolo is doing much to alleviate those pains.

You guys are trying to credit Paolo for being a “first option” regardless of the actual results. Kyle Kuzma is a first option. He better than Chet?

[FrightCoward]

It’s the truth. It’s not slander just because you don’t like hearing it.

Have you even watch our games? We are hurting when we don't have Paolo's gravity in our offense.

We literally dumped the ball to him during crunch time and ask him to do whatever. You really think we will be better if we had anybody else with the ball?

And how is that working for you? The Magic are 21st in offense, and 26th in crunch time offense. You may be hurting at times but it doesn’t look like Paolo is doing much to alleviate those pains.

You guys are trying to credit Paolo for being a “first option” regardless of the actual results. Kyle Kuzma is a first option. He better than Chet?

Lol, look at the Magic’s offensive talent outside of Paolo, especially sans Franz, and you have your answer to that question. The fact that he’s nearly led this team to a 3-0 record without Franz is pretty crazy. Suggs is the only other “good” player on the team currently.

[zero rings]

So, I realize that this is a thread comparing two guys, but I really want to speak to a point about Paulo being the first option.

While it's certainly harder to score efficiently at volume, that doesn't mean that the guy scoring at volume for a pretty-good team is carrying them.

The Magic are losing when Paolo is on the court, and doing a lot better when he's off of it. If the team wasn't so good with Paolo playing bench, literally no one would be even thinking about Paolo as an all-star candidate.

I don't hate Paolo. I'm not saying he sucks as a future foundation. But fundamentally we're talking about a guy who has the primacy he has because the Magic expect him to one day be a franchise player, not because them putting him in that position makes them a playoff team.

Let me also be clear: I'm not saying you could take a random bench guy on the Magic, give him Paolo's role and he'd do better. From an all-star perspective, it's simply a question of whether the team's record should lead us to overlook the fact that Paolo isn't actually producing eye-popping stats when you factor everything in the box score in on the grounds that he's having more impact than the box score says. And instead the indicators are that he's having less impact than his solid-but-not-amazing box score indicates.

Zooming out to the comparison: I do think it's hard to judge them confidently against each other right now because they are in different roles, and that at this point I don't think either of them lines up as a guy to get an all-star nod. There's no doubt that the presence of Shai is making Chet's life easier whereas Paolo's having to be the actual focal point of opposing defenses, and that's something I think about with Chet regardless of who he's being compared against.

But I'll also say that if I'm OKC I'm more confident about Chet's place in my future than I am if I'm Orlando with Paolo. Chet doesn't have to be my offensive alpha to fit with what I have, and his defense is just obviously nice.

For the Magic, were I them, I'd be thrilled at the improvement I see this year on the whole and expect I'd keep going with the plan I have...but I wouldn't delude myself into thinking I already have contender-level stars on my roster. Paolo & co needs to get better, and while that might seem like a "duh" statement, what I'm trying to convey is that the Magic record and seeding is making people look to give more credit to the anointed future star when really I think the story of the Magic this year is about the collective team lead by their coach.

This might sound like a skeptical take, but it potentially makes the team even more exciting. If they're this good while losing the Paolo minutes, imagine how good they'll be if he starts impacting like star.

So because of Cole, AB, Goga, Suggs the magic are the 4th best team in the east? I get everyone wanting to use Advanced stats, but watch the game and you'd see how ridiculous that sounds. Paolo has carried the team through a crazy amount of injuries over the past two months and we are still the 4th best team in the east.

This and other "insight" stating why Paolo is not as good as Chet has been the most hilariously ridiculous things I've read in quite some time.

You can scoff all you want. It’s what has actually happened on the court. The Magic’s bench mob has been outstanding and their starters, particularly Paolo, have struggled to win their minutes.