What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do?

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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#401 » by Chuck Everett » Fri Dec 20, 2024 9:19 pm

Ssj16 wrote:My big problem is that I still feel we are seeing other coaches maximize their roster with less talent.

I am not confident at all the Clippers or Orlando would be faring as well with Mike Malone as their coach.

I don't think he's a bad coach but I feel like he's hit a ceiling and he's not getting the most out of this team like how Spoestra squeezes out every last bit of talent on his teams.


Guy is truly teflon. Criticism is all for Booth and the Kroenke's but he skates. I honestly don't get it. He has any many chips as Bud, Nurse, Vogel and Doc and they all receive/have been given criticism. Is it because Malone is a second generation NBA coach? It makes no sense.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#402 » by mkot » Fri Dec 20, 2024 9:19 pm

Ssj16 wrote:
My big problem is that I still feel we are seeing other coaches maximize their roster with less talent.

I am not confident at all the Clippers or Orlando would be faring as well with Mike Malone as their coach.

I don't think he's a bad coach but I feel like he's hit a ceiling and he's not getting the most out of this team like how Spoestra squeezes out every last bit of talent on his teams.


He just got extended though. The cheap owners won't fire him so I'd say it's a waste of time looking at the coach to be honest, Booth has to find someone Malone will play, not what he believes he should play. It's just not smart on Booth's part. And I think that's why Booth hasn't got extended yet. And I'm not sure I can trust a GM to make moves if his job is not secure beyond this season.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#403 » by JM00n69 » Fri Dec 20, 2024 9:31 pm

mkot wrote:
Ssj16 wrote:
More and more, im jumping on the "take a look at the coach" bandwagon.


When there's limitation on the roster, he's going to try a lot of things to win games so I don't think it's fair to put everything on the coach without looking at the GM first. That said, I always have question on his sub patterns, Murray + bench (and most of the time with at least 2 non-shooters) for the non-Jokic minutes has been a disaster for years and he keeps doing it. He can't at least give him another starter/shooter say MPJ to at least give him more space to work the offense? Insane. And Murray hasn't been good until recently, AG is also dealing with some injury and hasn't been playing to his standard, so the fact that they are still above 500 is kinda a miracle to me.

Anyway I digress, I like most people said here believe changes are needed, but I hope to god that they don't panic trade away any of their starter. Murray's struggle is well known, but if you look at his numbers in October and November or first 20 games, 17ppg is on par with his career average. Now I do believe he is definitely battling but in the last 3 games he is averaging 24ppg 45/47/88 shooting splits and 6 assists and 2 steals, still a bit uneven in game but he is definitely trending up and looks more confidence in hunting for his shots. Aaron Gordon is still ramping up after dealing with some injuries early in the season, his numbers doesn't look too bad but if you look at his defensive advanced stats they are all down compare to his previous Nuggets years. He needs to play better and I think he is capable and he will. Jokic had put up a all-time stinker triple double vs the Kings and then another stinker 30+ points game vs the Blazers, I've watched him enough to know he will have nights like that he looks totally disinterested. That said his touches around the rim are a little off, his overall shooting % inside the arc is down from previous years too. He is shooting over double team more due to poor spacing and struggling from some of his teammates, so that's where the "get the man more help" comes from.

The problem though is not their starters, their bench has too many unplaying players.

Vlatko Cancar - he shouldn't even be resigned after looking horrible in the Olympic qualifier post ACL tear. I understand he is there for Jokic as they are close friends so fine.

Zeke Nnaji - disaster waiting to happen every time he steps on the court

Julian Strawther - consistently a negative player. Since Christian Braun is in the starting lineup to fill KCP's job he is their next guy up playing 20mpg

vs Blazers lost by 2 -17
vs Kings won by 1 -11
vs Hawks won by 30 -2
vs Lakers won by 25 -12
vs Heat won by 13 -12
vs Wolves lost by 3 -13

If you are a liability on defense, you can't be also a liability on offense but that's who he is. For a suppose shooter off the bench, he is too inconsistent. Right now the game is too fast for him, everything is rush. He does have a nice floater game he always rush that. Maybe he will figure it out but right now he is hot and cold and mostly cold, and getting hunted on defense.

I think playing him more than Watson is crazy, so that's on Malone.

Dario Saric - he is injured now but if he can't figure out and crack the rotation that's another dead weight on their bench.

DeAndre Jordan is getting minutes because of their entire frontcourt on the bench is either injured or unplayable. Jokic is playing career high 37mpg

They need to try package these guys for whatever and look into the FA market, find something, find someone that Malone can play. Forget about getting a backup C to play Jokic's role when he is off the court, find someone that can supplement Murray's 2nd unit for 10mpg for example. Get a high motor young athlete that plays hard on both ends, it's out there. Heck, re-sign Justin Holidays, he looks more playable than Julian Strawther right now.

They need moves on the margin, not a shake up


I agree with most of this and you've made some great points. I've been a Nugs fan for over 25yrs and watch most of their games. It's great to get a take from another teams follower that gets whats going on in Denver.

I've always been in two minds about Malone and he's stubbornness to shrink the rotation come playoffs but he really hasn't had many options ever. He does give everyone burn during the reg season and I think he even goes out of his way to showcase that he's working with a very short roster of NBA caliber players. Him and Booth don't see eye to eye and he's been making the most of the players he has imo and shows it openly. He has Jok and a good 4 starters aside him. Off the bench Russ has been better that I hoped for and PWAT/Strawther deserve the minutes but then it's DJ as the next best player. And as much as I love him and his vet exp he's 36y/o. None of the players after him should be getting rotation minutes on a playoff team.

I disagree with your take on Julian, he's taken the step every nugs fan hoped he would. Offensive spark and he's earned his minutes. The +/- doesn't show that he does try on D and is always active to contest/rebound. How well he does is another story but the effort is there. Plus he's out there with the second unit that is bad as a whole at defending.

Denver doesn't need to change the starting 5, it's help on the bench and someone to pick up the minutes that at the moment are going to Hunter Tyson and DJ - about 20mins per game total between them. Russ has been great after a slow start and they have Murray/Braun/PWat/Russ that fill the 1-2G minutes and also fill in a the 3 spot. It's the defensive big off the bench they need for those 20mins.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#404 » by Roy The Natural » Fri Dec 20, 2024 9:35 pm

CobraCommander wrote:Jokic needs to be traded for Milwaukee or Giannis and Dame need to come to Denver-

Honestly I have never seen two franchises mismanage the rosters of top 20 to potentially top 5 players this bad ever.

Their GMs should be fired immediately- while Dallas, OKC, Gouston, Boston, minny and the 76ers are making moves to give their best players a chance - the bucks and nuggets are trying to see how difficult they can make it for their star


uhhhh first go around Lebron in Cleveland was worse.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#405 » by JM00n69 » Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:08 pm

mkot wrote:
Ssj16 wrote:
My big problem is that I still feel we are seeing other coaches maximize their roster with less talent.

I am not confident at all the Clippers or Orlando would be faring as well with Mike Malone as their coach.

I don't think he's a bad coach but I feel like he's hit a ceiling and he's not getting the most out of this team like how Spoestra squeezes out every last bit of talent on his teams.


He just got extended though. The cheap owners won't fire him so I'd say it's a waste of time looking at the coach to be honest, Booth has to find someone Malone will play, not what he believes he should play. It's just not smart on Booth's part. And I think that's why Booth hasn't got extended yet. And I'm not sure I can trust a GM to make moves if his job is not secure beyond this season.


Booth has been very safe with his moves but he does need to do something with the very limited options he has. I agree with not resigning KCP but the the Saric contract seemed just forced after he made zero moves during the off season. Surely there was dozens of young athletic fringe NBA caliber bench players that could've got that contract. Holmes was already out for the year then. AND he gave Saric a player option for next year. Just why?

I didn't mind giving Nnaji a contract because he did show some potential then but there was no reason to guarantee that many years at that price. And it's a big issue now for a team with no tradable assets. AND HE GAVE HIM LAST YEAR AS A PLAYER OPTION

Re-signing Cancar is inexcusable after he missed whole of last year, it's a min contract but why give it to a 25y'o borderline NBA bench player that just missed a year due to major injury.

Booth has said he wants to keep Denver competitive and also give options to tool the roster over the next 4-5 years. He's not done either imo.

That ring is a testament to the hard work of the core players and Malone and his staff for squeezing out all the juice they had from a team that could've been a 1st round exit and no-one would've remembered it.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#406 » by Special_Puppy » Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:18 pm

Chuck Everett wrote:
Ssj16 wrote:My big problem is that I still feel we are seeing other coaches maximize their roster with less talent.

I am not confident at all the Clippers or Orlando would be faring as well with Mike Malone as their coach.

I don't think he's a bad coach but I feel like he's hit a ceiling and he's not getting the most out of this team like how Spoestra squeezes out every last bit of talent on his teams.


Guy is truly teflon. Criticism is all for Booth and the Kroenke's but he skates. I honestly don't get it. He has any many chips as Bud, Nurse, Vogel and Doc and they all receive/have been given criticism. Is it because Malone is a second generation NBA coach? It makes no sense.


The problem is much more clearly the roster in this case than those cases. Which is why the criticism is directed towards the front office instead of Malone
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#407 » by mkot » Sat Dec 21, 2024 12:38 am

JM00n69 wrote:

I disagree with your take on Julian, he's taken the step every nugs fan hoped he would. Offensive spark and he's earned his minutes. The +/- doesn't show that he does try on D and is always active to contest/rebound. How well he does is another story but the effort is there. Plus he's out there with the second unit that is bad as a whole at defending.


My comment on him might be a bit harsh, but when time and time again you see him getting punished on the defensive end AND not making shots AND he is playing major rotation minutes, you gotta look at the big picture and ask yourself will he ever be a positive player for the team in the post season. Most importantly, he might be the only player on the Nugget bench that has positive trade value atm besides Watson.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#408 » by TheShow2021 » Sat Dec 21, 2024 2:29 am

Bergmaniac wrote:They need a freaking bench. You can't be a contender if you have to often play the 36 year old Westbrook over 30 MPG and DeAndre Jordan is the backup centre. Strawther is their only backup who can score efficiently and create for himself but he is a complete disaster on defence.


"Bench" should be code for Jamal Murray. "They need a freaking bench" reads as "They need Jamal Murray not to suck."
Shouldn't any teams minutes be staggered to have the "2nd best" player, play all the minutes without the best player?

Since the start of 2020 season, Jokic's netRTG is 7.23 without Jamal Murray.

In that same time Murray's netRTG is -8.3 without Jokic.

Jamal Murray was always a fraud, mysterious "injury" or not, and most of y'all were foolish for not seeing the obvious signs.

The "2nd best player" needs to be better without the best player and Murray in incapable of efficient offense without Jokic's gravity and playmaking.

Jimmy Butler and Zach Lavine are much better players than Jamal Murray and deserving of the "2nd best player" moniker. They are capable of high volume, efficient offense alongside 4 bench players. But unless it's a decent trade, I rather wait to get rid of Murray and/ or AG next summer and keep MPJ.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#409 » by MrPainfulTruth » Sat Dec 21, 2024 3:42 am

i am certainly not the greatest fan of Malone but he isnt the difference maker here. Some players fail to deliver. Most of them seem hopeless to me too because you cant cure low IQ. I'd get rid of
Murray
Watson
Strawther

Uncertain about
Naji
Saric
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#410 » by RalphWiggum » Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:45 pm

I don't see any available players that they have the pieces to acquire that would change things much.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#411 » by Optms » Sat Dec 21, 2024 5:44 pm

Ssj16 wrote:
Optms wrote:
Ssj16 wrote:
It's weird wouldn't also fear Jokic as he gives AD the business when they match up.


Jokic wasn't stopping AD either. Murray would just cook with no resistance on the other end.


This makes no sense. Murray wasn't stopping anyone on his end either. Denver doesn't win those games without the dominance of both Jokic and Murray. You remove Jokic and Lakers most likely have another championship in the Lebron era.

Feels like a weird way to discredit Jokic owning the Lakers.


It makes perfect sense. You just aren't reading properly.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#412 » by Sharkboy242 » Sat Dec 21, 2024 6:22 pm

Optms wrote:
OriginalRed wrote:Nothing.

Their window closed the moment Murray regressed the way he did. For them to have any chance of being serious title contenders again, he has to return to form. Often times a team's window is determined not by their best player and superstar but their number two guy, as crazy as it sounds. We know what the number one guy is gonna do, get his points and make an impact etc but the consistency by the number two guy is the key.

The Nuggets extending Murray after having such an awful four month strength from the playoffs that carried into the olympics looks worse by the day.


This.

Especially for Denver. As a Lakers fan, I don't and never have feared Jokic. Its Murray who I didn't want to see. He was always the X factor.

This is cope, or bait. Can't decide which.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#413 » by mirmil » Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:09 am

Well if they can get Cam Johnson and DFS for MPJ, Zeke and top 4 protected 1st I'd say go for it. Front office should probably try negotiating those protections on '27 and '29 FRPs to take them off in exchange for 2nd round picks. If they can get something for Strawther + 2 2nds they will be more than fine
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#414 » by Statlanta » Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:17 am

Chuck Everett wrote:
Ssj16 wrote:My big problem is that I still feel we are seeing other coaches maximize their roster with less talent.

I am not confident at all the Clippers or Orlando would be faring as well with Mike Malone as their coach.

I don't think he's a bad coach but I feel like he's hit a ceiling and he's not getting the most out of this team like how Spoestra squeezes out every last bit of talent on his teams.


Guy is truly teflon. Criticism is all for Booth and the Kroenke's but he skates. I honestly don't get it. He has any many chips as Bud, Nurse, Vogel and Doc and they all receive/have been given criticism. Is it because Malone is a second generation NBA coach? It makes no sense.

My criticism is lack of young player development. Especially as a Magic fan seeing some of those former Nugget players come onto this team over the years like Hampton, Bol and Harris. Only having a young piece like Braun after all these years seem like coaching malpractice. The only positive coaching thing I've heard about him is having a positive personality meshing with DeMarcus Cousins.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#415 » by Lalouie » Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:49 am

get rid of mpj while he still has value. he's the softest player in the nba
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#416 » by HotRocks34 » Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:16 am

Lalouie wrote:get rid of mpj while he still has value. he's the softest player in the nba


He got very little run late in the game tonight.

Looking like a goner.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#417 » by LakersLegacy » Mon Dec 23, 2024 4:59 am

Denver can get LeBron to pair with Jokic for Murray and win 2 championships
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#418 » by badpotato » Mon Dec 23, 2024 5:13 am

In hindsight they should've sold high on Murray And MPJ right after the ring and this is something that would never ever happen - backlash would be too big and everything less than repeat would be blamed on getting rid of the core regrardless how well Jamal and MPJ would play for the other teams. Denver are the first victims of 2nd apron - there was nothing they could do to keep entire championship roster and it looks like it was not worth keeping anyway - looking at you Jamal.


Right now? Booth should pick up the phone and constantly call teams that are looking to bottom out to get anything valuable for a discount - see if Pelicans, Nets, Magic, Hornets, Jazz want to move anything of value for matching deals and if there is offer for MPJ just take it and never look back.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#419 » by Ugly0598 » Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:29 am

The Denver Flukets were gifted the 2022-23 NBA Finals and will NEVER win another one. They are a cursed organization run by a cheap owner.

You think you’re the San Antonio Spurs? Get out of the bar and out of LA and put your ass to work every night. SMH.
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Re: What in the Hell Can the Nuggets Do? 

Post#420 » by KyRo23 » Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:43 am

Roy The Natural wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:Jokic needs to be traded for Milwaukee or Giannis and Dame need to come to Denver-

Honestly I have never seen two franchises mismanage the rosters of top 20 to potentially top 5 players this bad ever.

Their GMs should be fired immediately- while Dallas, OKC, Gouston, Boston, minny and the 76ers are making moves to give their best players a chance - the bucks and nuggets are trying to see how difficult they can make it for their star


uhhhh first go around Lebron in Cleveland was worse.


LeBron had an allstar in Mo Williams and Jokic has never played with an allstar. LeBron had it easy

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