The Kobe Step Through

[sixerswillrule]

LOL, I was just about to edit my post- I have been looking at the NBA rulebook and can't find anything that disallows jumping by lifting your pivot foot first and then the other. The relevant rules are in Rule 4, Section 7 (Definitions, Pivot) and Rule 10, Section XIII (Violations and Penalties, Traveling)

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/
https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/

It seems legal based on those sections. So thanks for responding and clarifying.

No problem. And it's not just an NBA rule. Basically every level of basketball in the world. I mean if you look at HS/college rules, they never even talk about "steps" like the NBA does so this concept applies to all of their footwork including layups. Ending your dribble on your right foot means your right foot is your pivot foot regardless of what you do after. You pick it up to jump off the left for the layup and that's legal based on the shoot/pass before pivot comes back down rule. If you do the normal "2 steps", going left foot and then right foot, that's technically a travel is HS/college because the right pivot foot came back down. So if you come to a stop on left foot, that rule is still there. The rules have never distinguished between stationary vs. in motion.

Yet it's still a big controversy. Probably called a travel more often at the lower levels. May have been considered a travel in the past in the NBA. Big mystery.

[Egg Nog]

Jesus, a more-than-a-decade-ago bump.

TL;DR

1) It's a legal move, but...
2) The list of people who are ignorant of this being legal includes coaches and professional players, so...
3) Don't feel too bad if you incorrectly thought it was a travel, but also...
4) Realize that it isn't a travel

[sixerswillrule]

Jesus, a more-than-a-decade-ago bump.

TL;DR

1) It's a legal move, but...
2) The list of people who are ignorant of this being legal includes coaches and professional players, so...
3) Don't feel too bad if you incorrectly thought it was a travel, but also...
4) Realize that it isn't a travel

Maybe a record bump!

Lol, the whole "it's an awakward move and players are biased, of course they know this is legal" argument was so full of crap that I felt it necessitated a response given all of the proof now available proving that wrong.

[levon]

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This was gorgeous and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

[sixerswillrule]

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This was gorgeous and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

Sweet play.

But the one here at 1:27 is a better example in terms of picking up your pivot foot to jump off the other foot.

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[og15]

it's incredible that you can make it to the NBA, even have an HOF career, and not know the rules!

To be fair, most players understanding of the rules is based on what they have grown up with and what they see called. Players don't actually go and read the rule book, so if you grew up with people calling something a travel or believing it is a travel, you're just going to conclude that it is, you're not going to go and read the letter of the law.

[sixerswillrule]

it's incredible that you can make it to the NBA, even have an HOF career, and not know the rules!

To be fair, most players understanding of the rules is based on what they have grown up with and what they see called. Players don't actually go and read the rule book, so if you grew up with people calling something a travel or believing it is a travel, you're just going to conclude that it is, you're not going to go and read the letter of the law.

Wouldn't seeing it not called a travel change that perception though? It just doesn't make sense why guys in retirement like Allen, Payton, and KG would say that it's a travel unless it was called during their time.

[og15]

it's incredible that you can make it to the NBA, even have an HOF career, and not know the rules!

To be fair, most players understanding of the rules is based on what they have grown up with and what they see called. Players don't actually go and read the rule book, so if you grew up with people calling something a travel or believing it is a travel, you're just going to conclude that it is, you're not going to go and read the letter of the law.

Wouldn't seeing it not called a travel change that perception though? It just doesn't make sense why guys in retirement like Allen, Payton, and KG would say that it's a travel unless it was called during their time.

True, maybe they just conclude that the ref missed the call, lol

[BernteB]

Sorry for the bump mods! But I think this is good "off-season" discussion

Players believe that it's a travel. That's why you see reactions like the Lakers when it finally is used.

You see the same reaction on any call that looks somewhat questionable and goes against them. That doesn't mean they think it's a travel. They're extremely biased at that moment and only have the one live look from whatever angle they're at.

Same concept, but still a big difference. Do you ever see reactions like that when the common up and under is done? No, because they appear to be completely different. And with blatant use of the move as done by Melo, you gain more of an advantage as opposed to jumping off what appears to be both feet at the same time. When you step forward with your opposite foot, pick up your pivot, bring your pivot leg forward and into the air and jump off of your other foot you can cover a lot more ground. It's much harder to stop. Yet, still, it is never used...

It's an awkward play to do. That's why it is rarely used.

As it turns out, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, Gary Payton, Kevin Garnett, Malik Rose, Rasheed Wallace, Grayson Allen, Jusuf Nurkic, and Seth Curry have all specifically said that picking up your pivot foot to jump from the other foot is a travel. Surely there are many others.

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It's not because it's "awkward" that players rarely use it.

It's not because players are biased that they flip out when someone else does it.

It's. Because. They. Think. This. Is. A. Travel.

there was a thread a few months (?, maybe it was even last season) ago about the exact same thing and garnett not knowing the rules. and in that thread, there were numerous examples and explanations, why tha particular move is legal.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

Jesus, a more-than-a-decade-ago bump.

TL;DR

1) It's a legal move, but...
2) The list of people who are ignorant of this being legal includes coaches and professional players, so...
3) Don't feel too bad if you incorrectly thought it was a travel, but also...
4) Realize that it isn't a travel

Exactly. I’ve been watching basketball pretty much all my life and thought it was a travel until a few years ago. I literally had to read some excerpts from the rule book. I can see why it’s a common misconception.

[Gooner]

Lebron just abuse the "rule" today at the start of the second quarter. No one complained.

I found this play. Lebron did not do the move discussed in this thread.

Here are some actual examples. See if you can find any one complaining.

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This Giannis travel is funny, he just decided to take another step. And no call.

[Gooner]

Sorry for the bump mods! But I think this is good "off-season" discussion

You see the same reaction on any call that looks somewhat questionable and goes against them. That doesn't mean they think it's a travel. They're extremely biased at that moment and only have the one live look from whatever angle they're at.


It's an awkward play to do. That's why it is rarely used.

As it turns out, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, Gary Payton, Kevin Garnett, Malik Rose, Rasheed Wallace, Grayson Allen, Jusuf Nurkic, and Seth Curry have all specifically said that picking up your pivot foot to jump from the other foot is a travel. Surely there are many others.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

It's not because it's "awkward" that players rarely use it.

It's not because players are biased that they flip out when someone else does it.

It's. Because. They. Think. This. Is. A. Travel.

there was a thread a few months (?, maybe it was even last season) ago about the exact same thing and garnett not knowing the rules. and in that thread, there were numerous examples and explanations, why tha particular move is legal.

That move is not legal. It's a joke, that's what it is. Imagine everybody doing it all the time, how would this game look.

[ellobo]

Here's an illustrative case from an Ohio State High School Athletic Association officials education video. It's especially clear because it addresses an extreme case.

At 4:53 in the video (rule 4.44.3 situation C), it shows a player establishing a pivot foot, then stepping onto the opposite foot and lifting the pivot foot in the air -- just standing there like a flamingo on the NON-pivot foot with the pivot foot in the air. This is perfectly legal -- you just have to pass or shoot before the pivot foot touches the floor again.

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[sixerswillrule]

To be fair, most players understanding of the rules is based on what they have grown up with and what they see called. Players don't actually go and read the rule book, so if you grew up with people calling something a travel or believing it is a travel, you're just going to conclude that it is, you're not going to go and read the letter of the law.

Wouldn't seeing it not called a travel change that perception though? It just doesn't make sense why guys in retirement like Allen, Payton, and KG would say that it's a travel unless it was called during their time.

True, maybe they just conclude that the ref missed the call, lol

Well not just seeing it not called a travel once, seeing it not called a travel over the course of their 15-20 year career lol. That definitely would've changed their thinking, you'd expect. Unless that wasn't the case and refs actually used to call this a travel. That's what I'm genuinely curious about.

[BernteB]

there was a thread a few months (?, maybe it was even last season) ago about the exact same thing and garnett not knowing the rules. and in that thread, there were numerous examples and explanations, why tha particular move is legal.

That move is not legal. It's a joke, that's what it is. Imagine everybody doing it all the time, how would this game look.

eh, no. everywhere in the world it's a perfectly legal move. don't do this again. the orginal thread was exhausting enough.

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[Gooner]

there was a thread a few months (?, maybe it was even last season) ago about the exact same thing and garnett not knowing the rules. and in that thread, there were numerous examples and explanations, why tha particular move is legal.

That move is not legal. It's a joke, that's what it is. Imagine everybody doing it all the time, how would this game look.

eh, no. everywhere in the world it's a perfectly legal move. don't do this again. the orginal thread was exhausting enough.

Watch on YouTube

No it's not, you have just found a one example where it wasn't called, but nobody relies on that move. You could do it every time when you pump fake, but that would be a circus, not basketball. I just hate this deformation of the game of basketaball that's being promoted these days by the NBA and their fans.

[BernteB]

That move is not legal. It's a joke, that's what it is. Imagine everybody doing it all the time, how would this game look.

eh, no. everywhere in the world it's a perfectly legal move. don't do this again. the orginal thread was exhausting enough.

Watch on YouTube

No it's not, you have just found a one example where it wasn't called, but nobody relies on that move. You could do it every time when you pump fake, but that would be a circus, not basketball. I just hate this deformation of the game of basketaball that's being promoted these days by the NBA and their fans.

did you watch the video? it's an official fiba video to train refs.

[Gooner]

eh, no. everywhere in the world it's a perfectly legal move. don't do this again. the orginal thread was exhausting enough.

Watch on YouTube

No it's not, you have just found a one example where it wasn't called, but nobody relies on that move. You could do it every time when you pump fake, but that would be a circus, not basketball. I just hate this deformation of the game of basketaball that's being promoted these days by the NBA and their fans.

did you watch the video? it's an official fiba video to train refs.

It's just some random video.

[prophet_of_rage]

It isn't a travel. It is legal by rules. 15 years ago it was called a travel in the States who weren't used to it. But it is a legal move.

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[BernteB]

No it's not, you have just found a one example where it wasn't called, but nobody relies on that move. You could do it every time when you pump fake, but that would be a circus, not basketball. I just hate this deformation of the game of basketaball that's being promoted these days by the NBA and their fans.

did you watch the video? it's an official fiba video to train refs.

It's just some random video.

just some random troll.