MVP Rankings 1.0

[Inhuman]

New Rankings...
1.) Kobe
2.) LeBron
3.) Carmelo.

LeBron had another "Chicago game". Let his arrogance cost the Cavs the game. Got absolutely punked by Rudy Gay. He loses some serious points for tonights game. It's going to take a few weeks for him to redeem himself after this one.

Damn I never thought I would see you say something like this.

Lebron being #2 on his list will probably only last 1 day. If that

[The Skyhook]

New Rankings...
1.) Kobe
2.) LeBron
3.) Carmelo.

LeBron had another "Chicago game". Let his arrogance cost the Cavs the game. Got absolutely punked by Rudy Gay. He loses some serious points for tonights game. It's going to take a few weeks for him to redeem himself after this one.

Damn I never thought I would see you say something like this.

Dude, go read my posts early in the thread of in the other thread that we had before this one. Kobe was my early leader because LeBron did this type of **** in a game against Chicago earlier. Then he did a complete 180 and was amazing..until he did it a bit again tonight.

I never pay much attention to the MVP threads until the end of the season because it will be between Kobe and Lebron for the rest of this season so I never got to see your posts in this thread

[JimMurray]

Dude, go read my posts early in the thread of in the other thread that we had before this one. Kobe was my early leader because LeBron did this type of **** in a game against Chicago earlier. Then he did a complete 180 and was amazing..until he did it a bit again tonight.

Dog, you spent half the day disagreeing with me and then come back with this? Tonights game pretty much personified my arguments to a T, and is the reason I give it to Kobe at this juncture.

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Dude, go read my posts early in the thread of in the other thread that we had before this one. Kobe was my early leader because LeBron did this type of **** in a game against Chicago earlier. Then he did a complete 180 and was amazing..until he did it a bit again tonight.

Dog, you spent half the day disagreeing with me and then come back with this? Tonights game pretty much personified my arguments to a T, and is the reason I give it to Kobe at this juncture.

"Dog", the post wasn't directed at you.

Tonights game was a carbon copy of the Chicago game which I took into account on my rankings prior to an hour ago. Now that there's another game like this, I take that account into my rankings.

[JimMurray]

"Dog", the post wasn't directed at you.

Tonights game was a carbon copy of the Chicago game which I took into account on my rankings prior to an hour ago. Now that there's another game like this, I take that account into my rankings.

It doesn't matter....you see what I see. That's all that matters.

[doozyj]

New Rankings...
1.) Kobe
2.) LeBron
3.) Carmelo.

LeBron had another "Chicago game". Let his arrogance cost the Cavs the game. Got absolutely punked by Rudy Gay. He loses some serious points for tonights game. It's going to take a few weeks for him to redeem himself after this one.

Wow just wow. I think your reputation just went up significantly with this non-biased post.

[Wile E. Coyote]

It looks like it's going to be between Kobe and LeBron for the rest of the year.

I still think it comes down to team record first and foremost as the deciding factor because of the level of play of both candidates.

[mysticbb]

Wow just wow. I think your reputation just went up significantly with this non-biased post.

Well, reading his posts in this thread aren't giving me the impression that he changed anything in his view. He did take all those stuff into account and came up with LeBron James as the best candidate for the MVP. The "V" means valuable, which isn't related to the "best player" or "being the most perfect player". Sometimes it just means to the perfect fit for a team in a certain season with the necessary skills and performances. That is the reason why the MVP award for Steve Nash was complete reasonable. No player had a bigger offensive impact on his team than Nash in those seasons. Therefore you have to take into account how his teammates are playing with and without the said player.

I have still LeBron James as the best candidate with Bryant as the 2nd best. Why? Nobody in his right mind would trade Gasol, Odom, Artest and Bynum for Shaq, Mo Williams, Delonte West and Varejao (whoever you think is the 4th best player on the Cavs). Matter of fact is that the Lakers have a huge advantage in terms of height and strength. Gasol, Artest and Odom are in their respective primes, something which can't be said about Shaq. Bryant has just not so much to do to get the Lakers rolling as James. And someone asked what Bryant could do better. Well, he could always raise his scoring efficiency and lower is turnover ratio, that is something he can really improve. The differences in the roster lead me to believe that the seperation between the Lakers' and the Cavs' record needs to be around 8 to 10 wins to give Bryant the edge at the end of the season. The MJ 96 analogy isn't working here, because Jordan led the league in a couple of things in 1996 and they also had some injury/suspension problems which made it necessary to give heavy minutes to guys like Jud Buechler, Dickey Simpkins or a 40 yr old James Edwards in some of their games. Especially the Bulls frontcourt lacked depth, something you can't say about the Lakers. Before the 95/96 season started the team was projected to win between 60 and 65 games, nobody expected to see the first and only team winning 70+ games.They exceeded the expectation, the Lakers were projected to win 65+ games, so far I don't see them really win 70+ games.

James has the higher PER, Win Shares and adj. +/- in this season so far, Bryant has the edge in Net+/-. Bryant is statistically speaking not that far away (4th in PER, 3rd in Win Shares), but he is still 2nd. Nowitzki is 3rd in the MVP ranking ahead of other, because he has the highest adj. +/- (33 the next best has 25), the highest Net+/-, is 2nd in Win Shares and 5th in PER so far this season. Well, watching the Nets game might give an example. The Mavericks were +30 with Nowitzki on the court in 35 minutes, but they managed to be -14 without him in 13 minutes. And the number didn't come in garbage time (in fact the Mavericks even went from -18 in 10 minutes without Nowitzki on the court to -14 in the last 3 minutes), the Mavericks are just a bad offensive and defensive team without Nowitzki.

[Dat Pass]

Gasol, Artest and Odom are in their respective primes, something which can't be said about Shaq. Bryant has just not so much to do to get the Lakers rolling as James. And someone asked what Bryant could do better. Well, he could always raise his scoring efficiency and lower is turnover ratio, that is something he can really improve. The differences in the roster lead me to believe that the seperation between the Lakers' and the Cavs' record needs to be around 8 to 10 wins to give Bryant the edge at the end of the season.

Wtf. Artest and Odom are NOT in their primes anymore.

Kobe may have more help, but how do you explain the Cavs losing to the Raptors, Bulls, Wizards, Bobcats and Grizzlies already this season? What, did he not have enough help to beat those teams either? Pathetic, overused argument..

8-10 wins difference? The Cavs won 66 games last season and now have 3 starters from last year coming off the bench because they added so much depth. So really? The Lakers have to win 8-10 games more? Thats garbage and you know it.

[mysticbb]

Kobe may have more help

He has more help, no doubt about that. Better team, better coach, that is something everyone can probably agree on.

What, did he not have enough help to beat those teams either?

That is the reason why it is closer between Bryant and James in this season. If they win those games, they would be at 20-1 so far in this season, doubt that anyone would even consider to not give the MVP award to James. Right now there are at least some arguments for Bryant ahead of James.

8-10 wins difference? The Cavs won 66 games last season and now have 3 starters from last year coming off the bench because they added so much depth. So really? The Lakers have to win 8-10 games more? Thats garbage and you know it.

Uh, they went to a 37 yr old Shaq instead of a 34 yr old Big Z, from Delonte West/Sasha Pavlovic to a 34 yr Anthony Parker (neither West nor Pavlovic should be a starter in this league) and from Varajeo/Wallace to a sophomore in JJ Hickson. I don't even know where to start to point out that the last seasons Cavs are heavily overachieved in the regular season with 66 wins.

[YLSKillaCam]

All this is missing the point. Who cares if Kobe has more help?

Fact is: Kobe is playing at top 2 level individually in the league
Fact is: they have the best record in the league
Fact is: Kobe is playing first team defense.

There's no need to even compare Kobe to anyone else. As long as those things stand true, he's the MVP.

In the history of the game, has there ever been a player denied MVP when meeting those three criteria above? If not, let's lock this thread until something changes.

[mysticbb]

In the history of the game, has there ever been a player denied MVP when meeting those three criteria above? If not, let's lock this thread until something changes.

Michael Jordan in 1997, best record, best player, All-Defense 1st team, no MVP.

[YLSKillaCam]

a damn shame too. Everyone know's he should've been MVP that year too.

[See5]

Right now it's definitely Kobe at #1. It might change if he or the Lakers go on a cold stretch but right now he's playing at a very high level, even for him.

Great play on the defensive side of the ball, efficient scoring, leadership, and his team has the best record. Can't ask for much more.

I have LeBron and Melo right after him as of now.

[Dat Pass]

That is the reason why it is closer between Bryant and James in this season. If they win those games, they would be at 20-1 so far in this season, doubt that anyone would even consider to not give the MVP award to James. Right now there are at least some arguments for Bryant ahead of James.

You want to use the excuse that he doesnt have as much help as Kobe.. So I want to know why he couldnt beat 5 crappy teams. LeBron and the Cavs have now lost 5 games to really bad teams. There is no excuse for that this early in the season. If they lose 1-2, fine, it happens. But 5 this early? Sorry, but the whole "Kobe has more help" argument goes out the window when you lose to the Grizzlies, Raptors, Bulls, Wizards and Bobcats.

Uh, they went to a 37 yr old Shaq instead of a 34 yr old Big Z, from Delonte West/Sasha Pavlovic to a 34 yr Anthony Parker (neither West nor Pavlovic should be a starter in this league) and from Varajeo/Wallace to a sophomore in JJ Hickson. I don't even know where to start to point out that the last seasons Cavs are heavily overachieved in the regular season with 66 wins.

Ok, so if LeBron walked away with the MVP last year after his team overacheieved, why should he get a free pass this year while his team is underacheieving. (Which is absolutely what they are doing right now)

[mysticbb]

Ok, so if LeBron walked away with the MVP last year after his team overacheieved, why should he get a free pass this year while his team is underacheieving. (Which is absolutely what they are doing right now)

He doesn't get a pass for this (and no, the team is not underachieving so far, right on track for 59 wins, they will probably end up with 60 wins, if the Lakers win column is at 68 to 70, Bryant will have a good argument for being the MVP), otherwise it would be no contest. Would you even try to argue against James as the MVP, if the Cavs would be at 20-1 right now? The Lakers had 15 of their 19 games at home so far, the Cavs 10 of their 21, keep that in mind!

[Dat Pass]

Ok, so if LeBron walked away with the MVP last year after his team overacheieved, why should he get a free pass this year while his team is underacheieving. (Which is absolutely what they are doing right now)

He doesn't get a pass for this (and no, the team is not underachieving so far, right on track for 59 wins, they will probably end up with 60 wins, if the Lakers win column is at 68 to 70, Bryant will have a good argument for being the MVP), otherwise it would be no contest. Would you even try to argue against James as the MVP, if the Cavs would be at 20-1 right now? The Lakers had 15 of their 19 games at home so far, the Cavs 10 of their 21, keep that in mind!

They have lost games to the Grizzlies, Raptors, Bulls, Wizards and Bobcats barely 20 games into the season. Really? Should Cavs fans be happy about that? They are on pace for just 58 wins, 8 less than last season. Their schedule is only going to get harder as well.

[Morehotsauce]

LMAO reading over these post you can see how transparent LeBron haters are...Anything Lebron does can be spinned negatively without remotely any evidence. As of right now Kobe should be on top but not by much since he is mainly in the lead because his team is winning more games. Lebron is in a very close second..

[Morehotsauce]

Ok, so if LeBron walked away with the MVP last year after his team overacheieved, why should he get a free pass this year while his team is underacheieving. (Which is absolutely what they are doing right now)

He doesn't get a pass for this (and no, the team is not underachieving so far, right on track for 59 wins, they will probably end up with 60 wins, if the Lakers win column is at 68 to 70, Bryant will have a good argument for being the MVP), otherwise it would be no contest. Would you even try to argue against James as the MVP, if the Cavs would be at 20-1 right now? The Lakers had 15 of their 19 games at home so far, the Cavs 10 of their 21, keep that in mind!

They have lost games to the Grizzlies, Raptors, Bulls, Wizards and Bobcats barely 20 games into the season. Really? Should Cavs fans be happy about that? They are on pace for just 58 wins, 8 less than last season. Their schedule is only going to get harder as well.

They got off to a rough start trying to adjust their team to Shaq. And it's been proven in the NBA any team can win on any given night.

[Deezy]

Dwight Howard's slowly creeping up into the discussion. If Orlando maintains the best record in the East, and he increases his numbers a bit, I could see him walking away with this award at season's end.