Is this a travel?

[Roscoe Sheed]

^

Yes, that is a travel. Kinda subtle, but a travel (referring to the MJ move)

[thedarkstark]

How the **** is this thread still going? It's such an obvious travel.

[MrCheerios]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ_5IspZmx8&t=4m0s
Notice that in this drill the extra step doesn't matter as the pivot foot is not switched.

[bballmaniac27]

How the **** is this thread still going? It's such an obvious travel.

The reason why this thread is still going is because people are being (Please Use More Appropriate Word). It's already been proven time and time again that it isn't a travel.

[kaulkhara15]

29 pages because of this stupid ****?

[The_NeX]

Now i understand why so few travels are called in the nba.

[Black Feet]

Now i understand why so few travels are called in the nba.

So you never understood what a travel was? Because the gif in OP is not a travel and has been explained a million times.

[Black Feet]

How the **** is this thread still going? It's such an obvious travel.

SMH at the persistent ignorance

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

[AQuintus]

Art. 1. A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball steps once
or more than once in any direction with the same foot, while the other foot,
called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the playing court.

If one foot is in the air and the other foot is on the ground, the foot on the ground is the pivot foot.

Kobe clearly changed his pivot foot on that play - a travel.

[The_NeX]

Now i understand why so few travels are called in the nba.

So you never understood what a travel was? Because the gif in OP is not a travel and has been explained a million times.

How did you get that from my comment ? Oh my...

I was actually making fun of the fact that a 20+ pages thread was made to explain one basic play, which for me directly correlates to the fact that calling a travelling violation in the nba is a rare and weird occurrence.

[syntax]

If one foot is in the air and the other foot is on the ground, the foot on the ground is the pivot foot.

Kobe clearly changed his pivot foot on that play - a travel.

By your logic, taking two steps for a layup is changing your pivot foot eh?

[RaisingArizona]

^ You never establish a pivot foot on a layup unless you jump stop for it. This is a travel folks- move a along now.

[italianleather]

Really glad that rules covers all aspects after picking up the dribble.

Was always told by my friends that there are different rules for a straight layup and post pivot moves, which I am not convinced. Does not make sense at all.

[Black Feet]

^ You never establish a pivot foot on a layup unless you jump stop for it. This is a travel folks- move a along now.

It's not a travel, read the thread. only trolls and those who are illiterate seem to think its a travel.

[syntax]

^ You never establish a pivot foot on a layup unless you jump stop for it. This is a travel folks- move a along now.

Ever read a rulebook friend? The first foot you plant after picking up your dribble is your pivot foot.

A layup consists of taking your first step (pivot foot) THEN taking your second step.

Watch this and learn - http://vimeo.com/395653

This thread is an excellent example of why your (US) basketball fundamentals are so so bad. Learn the goddamn fundamentals of basketball you chumps.

[Dr Aki]

how is this thread still going???

kobe's left foot is established as the pivot foot because his right foot hits the ground, kobe takes many different jab steps with his right foot. kobe's left foot is the clear pivot foot.

reading through this thread, what is in dispute is how a pivot foot is established.

i assume we are all conditioned that 3 steps is a travel. that is because a left-right-left means you change your pivot foot from your left to your right.

a pivot foot is established when the other foot hits the ground... kobe's pivot foot never switches because his left foot never comes back down. kobe's foot-steps is left-right (jump to shoot)

hence: this is not only legal, but perfect technique

Code: Select all

Section XIV-Traveling
g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

kobe shoots the ball before his left foot comes back down.

kase klosed

[droponov]

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/12/31/have-ball-will-travel-deron-williams/

Has someone posted this link already?

Deron does the same move and it's not called.

Quite frankly, I think it should be called a travel. But because the rule doesn't say anything about taking off on the other foot after having lited the pivot foot, the refs can't call a travel.

David Stern must clarify, or die...

Er... Maybe you should read the link you posted.

1) He stated at the beginning that "Deron seemed to have travelled". He is not sure.

2) He mentioned that the rules did not explicitly says that thats a travel

3) He said that some guy from NBA.com disagree wholeheartedly with him.

It proves how clueless about rules are analysts, writers and fans in general. I mean, I had to read this twice:


Quite frankly, I think it should be called a travel. But because the rule doesn't say anything about taking off on the other foot after having lited the pivot foot, the refs can't call a travel.

David Stern must clarify, or die...

So, the guy is clever enough to understand that per de rules it's not a travel. But, somehow, he thinks he should be called a travel. Probably a proponent of the flat earth theory - maybe we should really clarify that thing about the shape of the earth too.

Stern should clarify what? These moves aren't travel violations, the rule is absolutely clear. It has been for decades. If this was to start being called travels, basketball would be a completely different sport - I think guys like this one are simply unable to comprehend how often plays like this - a player lifting his pivot and jumping off the other foot to shoot/pass the ball - happen. It can't be any more clarified than it already is. Those who can't understand the rule are simply illiterate.

[droponov]

^ You never establish a pivot foot on a layup unless you jump stop for it. This is a travel folks- move a along now.

Ever read a rulebook friend? The first foot you plant after picking up your dribble is your pivot foot.

A layup consists of taking your first step (pivot foot) THEN taking your second step.

Watch this and learn - http://vimeo.com/395653

This thread is an excellent example of why your (US) basketball fundamentals are so so bad. Learn the goddamn fundamentals of basketball you chumps.

I've been saying for days that people should be trying to visualize this as a running lay-up. And I've written before in this thread - the NBA usage of terms like "steps" (formerly "counts") confuses American fans, most of whom already have some troubles with this kind of stuff due to their public school system. They end up believing that "the pivot foot" only exists when the player is pivoting in the post. The NBA rules book should be all about the pivot. Like FIBA does.

I fully disagree with your last paragraph though: they need to learn the rules. But this move isn't fundamental basketball. Quite the opposite. Coaches dont' teach this kind of move and rightly so. The fundamental move is to reverse pivot and jump off both feet. This one requires a great deal of talent to keep balance and coordination, it's something you see Kobe, Pierce or Scola doing from time to time.

[droponov]

Once he lifts the pivot foot off the ground he has to shoot or pass. He cant take another step. The rule is on pg 9 of this thread. Its correct, it just doesnt talk about taking the extra step that he clearly does. Take a look at the clip I posted above with the knicks. Thats the proper way to do it. He jumps off of both feet.

He lifts the pivot foot while jumping off his other foot and shoots. Nowhere is he taking another step.

Watch the video again, He clearly takes off on his right foot. His pivot was his left. .Once that pivot came off the ground he had to shoot or pass for it to be legal. He took another step, taking off on his right foot. The change is pretty fast but it happens. im sure he practiced it that way. No way can the refs catch that. The change happens too fast.

Players can pick up their pivot, jump off their other foot, then release the ball. It's 100% legal. It's how most running shots are executed.

[droponov]

the rules have changed over the years to allow players to travel better..

For the 2009-10 season, the NBA modified its rule regarding traveling to update antiquated language.[1]

NBA Official Rules (2009-2010)[2]

Rule 10, Section XIII—Traveling


b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.

-A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball. The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.

-A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.

-A player who lands with one foot first may only pivot using that foot. A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.

c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

d. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

e. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.

h. Upon ending his dribble or gaining control of the ball, a player may not touch the floor consecutively with the same foot (hop).

in example B in the first bullet, im pretty sure back in the dayit would definately be a travel if you took 2 freeby steps and then stopped.

Also here, it says if you raise your pivot foot, you must shoot. It doesnt state that you must shoot off your pivot footYou used to have to shoot off your pivot foot, aka, jump off your pivot foot to take a shot, that might have changed 2 seasons ago now, but yeah that was travel back in the day im pretty sure. If you're at a stop and your pivot foot was established, you used to have to jump off THAT foot, not the other, it was harder.

Wrong. This rule has been like this for decades. The "changes" made 2 years ago they talk about was basically replacing the word "counts" for "steps".