2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Riko]

Dallas is 13-11 right now and Sacramento 13-12, just saying. And the question is not whether Sacramento is as good or better than Dallas, the question is whether they'd be better than themselves right now and going forward if they had drafted Doncic instead of Bagley.

They really believe in fox, they probably still think that drafting Luka wuold have hurt fox development.
I still think that was a mistake but let's see how it pan out for them.

Let's be realistic here for a second. Luka is transforming his game to be more of a scorer than a PG. He doesn't even play like a PG. Last game Brunson started with him when DSJ was out just to fill that role.
I do 100% think now, that SAC actually made the right move not drafting him. Because if they had drafted him, it means that they would also had to make some trades. There would have been too many ball dominant players. Love him or hate him, Vlade made the right move with Bagley.

That's my point (my conclusion is different tho), they already had a couple of ball-handler and they believe in them despite last year they were pretty bad.
Bagley is good but doncic is better so imho at the moment is a mistake but if both bagley and fox continue to improve it was the right move, if they don't it was a mistake.

[Duke4life831]

They really believe in fox, they probably still think that drafting Luka wuold have hurt fox development.
I still think that was a mistake but let's see how it pan out for them.

Let's be realistic here for a second. Luka is transforming his game to be more of a scorer than a PG. He doesn't even play like a PG. Last game Brunson started with him when DSJ was out just to fill that role.
I do 100% think now, that SAC actually made the right move not drafting him. Because if they had drafted him, it means that they would also had to make some trades. There would have been too many ball dominant players. Love him or hate him, Vlade made the right move with Bagley.

That's my point (my conclusion is different tho), they already had a couple of ball-handler and they believe in them despite last year they were pretty bad.
Bagley is good but doncic is better so imho at the moment is a mistake but if both bagley and fox continue to improve it was the right move, if they don't it was a mistake.

Obviously not on the same scale, but it could easily become a similar situation as the 1984 draft. Again I want to make it clear I'm not saying these guys are on the same level. But MJ arguably the GOAT went 3rd and Hakeem went 1st. MJ the better player for sure but in the end I'm sure Houston wasn't kicking themselves for choosing Hakeem, he was a great "consolation prize".

Say Doncic ends up being the best player in the draft and is a perennial all NBA player. Then Bagley becomes a perennial all Star player and racks up a good amount of all NBA teams himself and is a perfect fit with Fox. Doncic the better player and if done again ya Sac probably takes Doncic. But not a situation where Sac is constantly kicking themselves over the decision.

But again we are 20 games into their careers, we have no clue how these guys ends up. I'm just saying their could easily be a situation where Doncic ends up the better player but Sac still are very happy with their pick.

[saritasbora]

this thread is dead after luka's performance last night tbh. the real question is who is the next best?
JJJ deserves the crown imho

[mg]

this narrative that teams messed up at drafting... its ridiculous

nothing is given. all are generals after the battle. luka is playing like even most hardcore fans from slovenia havent envisioned.
ayton was the only logical choice for phx. sac right now is better than dallas. lets stop shi***ng on divac. and atlanta had something else in mind. they may have messed up but its not the final verdict.

also, playing hallelula before the game... cringey... especially for other players

Here are per36 numbers for the rookies. Lots of good players in this class.

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per36&PlayerExperience=Rookie

Thanks for posting that. They do need to weed out the rooks that have only played a handful of games as that really skews the rankings though.

Obviously Doncic is hands down the favorite and likely already has this award sewn up. He's only 19 but you can clearly tell he has several years of professional experience. The kid is a stud. I've seen little bits of Bird, Curry, and now Harden incorporated into his game. Not comparing him to any of these past MVP's but you can see how he's modeled his game after the greats that proceeded him.

With that said I am very impressed with the other 19 year olds from this draft: Bagley, JJJ, and Sexton are 3 of the youngest but have looked very nice. I wouldn't get too caught up in RPM stats at this early stage. Fox struggled in RPM rankings last season too.

[INKtastic]

this narrative that teams messed up at drafting... its ridiculous

nothing is given. all are generals after the battle. luka is playing like even most hardcore fans from slovenia havent envisioned.
ayton was the only logical choice for phx. sac right now is better than dallas. lets stop shi***ng on divac. and atlanta had something else in mind. they may have messed up but its not the final verdict.

also, playing hallelula before the game... cringey... especially for other players

Here are per36 numbers for the rookies. Lots of good players in this class.

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per36&PlayerExperience=Rookie

Thanks for posting that. They do need to weed out the rooks that have only played a handful of games as that really skews the rankings though.

Obviously Doncic is hands down the favorite and likely already has this award sewn up. He's only 19 but you can clearly tell he has several years of professional experience. The kid is a stud. I've seen little bits of Bird, Curry, and now Harden incorporated into his game. Not comparing him to any of these past MVP's but you can see how he's modeled his game after the greats that proceeded him.

With that said I am very impressed with the other 19 year olds from this draft: Bagley, JJJ, and Sexton are 3 of the youngest but have looked very nice. I wouldn't get too caught up in RPM stats at this early stage. Fox struggled in RPM rankings last season too.

This link filters out players with less than 15 games played

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per36&PlayerExperience=Rookie&CF=GP*GE*15

[Duke4life831]

Here are per36 numbers for the rookies. Lots of good players in this class.

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per36&PlayerExperience=Rookie

Thanks for posting that. They do need to weed out the rooks that have only played a handful of games as that really skews the rankings though.

Obviously Doncic is hands down the favorite and likely already has this award sewn up. He's only 19 but you can clearly tell he has several years of professional experience. The kid is a stud. I've seen little bits of Bird, Curry, and now Harden incorporated into his game. Not comparing him to any of these past MVP's but you can see how he's modeled his game after the greats that proceeded him.

With that said I am very impressed with the other 19 year olds from this draft: Bagley, JJJ, and Sexton are 3 of the youngest but have looked very nice. I wouldn't get too caught up in RPM stats at this early stage. Fox struggled in RPM rankings last season too.

This link filters out players with less than 15 games played

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per36&PlayerExperience=Rookie&CF=GP*GE*15

Bagley
2nd in points
3rd in fg%
2nd in OREB
4th in REB
6th in BLKs

Yes I know it's raw stats and it's per 36. I'm not claiming he's the best rookie. But I think the #2 pick has been slept on. He's making dumb rookie mistakes (his last game couldn't stop fouling). But the potential is clear as day.

[BlueSan]

People are overreacting. Luka wasnt far away from a really bad game, but sure he showed a part of what makes him special and I do hope people dont just forget it at the next bad game he will have.


However ROY is far from over. Currently we have an extra hot Colin Sexton, Ayton and Suns situation I believe will only get better, I also expect Bagley to be given more minutes as season goes on. JJJ is right there at the top, people are ridiculing Trae Young and of course you can say that they are justified to.

However I still think Trae is a really good player which atm has hit a problem that he needs to overcome (his decision making, style of play, you cant go out playing like that every game) he will adapt and get better at it.

I have it like this right now

LuKa
JJJ
Ayton
Sexton

Then the rest of the pack and of course there are some good players in that pack but The above three next to Luka are definitely still quite close in that race, Sexton earned it durring his last 10 games or so.

So while I am a Dallas fan. Luka fan I will be the first one to say that this one is far from over and that we have a bunch of really good rookies making splash, adding to the strength of their teams and thus making NBA more fun to watch as they level the playing field a bit with their presence and contributions to their teams.

[INKtastic]

I knew Sextion has been playing better lately, but this surprised me

Rookie leaders in scoring, last 15 games (points, assists, rebounds)

1. Sexton 19.1/3.1/3.7 .472/.472/.857 splits
2. Doncic 17.4/3.9/6.5 .415/.377/.841 splits

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=RegularSeason&PlayerExperience=Rookie&CF=GP*GE*5&LastNGames=15

[Pachinko_]

Question: Do i post this here or in the MVP thread?

Read on Twitter

I always held the position that there is no such thing as clutch.
If someone is usually good at making shots at the end of games it means he can be good at making shots throughout the game - he probably needs to fix his body so he is actually able to do it or his team needs to figure out ways to give him the ball more. Both of which are probably true for Doncic as well.

[INKtastic]

Question: Do i post this here or in the MVP thread?

Read on Twitter

I always held the position that there is no such thing as clutch.
If someone is usually good at making shots at the end of games it means he can be good at making shots throughout the game - he probably needs to fix his body so he is actually able to do it or his team needs to figure out ways to give him the ball more. Both of which are probably true for Doncic as well.

Small sample size can skew clutch numbers in the short term, but players who are clutch in the long term are players are hyper focused on every detail perfect execution when the game is on the line to an extent not possible to sustain over all 48 minutes of a game.

[Fat]

Watch on YouTube

Confidence rising

[gh123]

I knew Sextion has been playing better lately, but this surprised me

Rookie leaders in scoring, last 15 games (points, assists, rebounds)

1. Sexton 19.1/3.1/3.7 .472/.472/.857 splits
2. Doncic 17.4/3.9/6.5 .415/.377/.841 splits

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=RegularSeason&PlayerExperience=Rookie&CF=GP*GE*5&LastNGames=15

Sexton has been beasting, even though he was put into worse situation than Ayton. RotM is absolute joke, Sexton is head and shoulders above Young.

[Dan Z]

I knew Sextion has been playing better lately, but this surprised me

Rookie leaders in scoring, last 15 games (points, assists, rebounds)

1. Sexton 19.1/3.1/3.7 .472/.472/.857 splits
2. Doncic 17.4/3.9/6.5 .415/.377/.841 splits

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=RegularSeason&PlayerExperience=Rookie&CF=GP*GE*5&LastNGames=15

I was surprised that Sexton stepped up, but glad to see it. I just wonder about his assists and overall PG play. My guess is that he's better than some people predicted. Future looks bright for him.

[drosereturn]

People are overreacting. Luka wasnt far away from a really bad game, but sure he showed a part of what makes him special and I do hope people dont just forget it at the next bad game he will have.


However ROY is far from over. Currently we have an extra hot Colin Sexton, Ayton and Suns situation I believe will only get better, I also expect Bagley to be given more minutes as season goes on. JJJ is right there at the top, people are ridiculing Trae Young and of course you can say that they are justified to.

However I still think Trae is a really good player which atm has hit a problem that he needs to overcome (his decision making, style of play, you cant go out playing like that every game) he will adapt and get better at it.

I have it like this right now

LuKa
JJJ
Ayton
Sexton

Then the rest of the pack and of course there are some good players in that pack but The above three next to Luka are definitely still quite close in that race, Sexton earned it durring his last 10 games or so.

So while I am a Dallas fan. Luka fan I will be the first one to say that this one is far from over and that we have a bunch of really good rookies making splash, adding to the strength of their teams and thus making NBA more fun to watch as they level the playing field a bit with their presence and contributions to their teams.

The ROY race is already over and this is coming from someone who was closer to anti-Luka mostly due to the unfamiliarity of Euro prospects. Last year, Simmons had a relatively close race in Mitchell but he redshirted so he easily won ROY.
This year, I only see JJJ challenging Luka due to some injury bug or a massive shooting slump which is very unlikely.
Ayton, Bagley are major disappointments especially for Americans who claimed the NCAA produced superior products to that of the Euroleague. Not to mention, it puts shame on ATL who basically gifted away a generational talent for basically nothing.
If Luka continues to improve like he has always been, I can see him being an all-time great and possibly the best Euro player to ever play the game.

[KingDavid]

Watch on YouTube

Confidence rising

Whoa! I wish he didn't get injured. Knicks fans seen to love him. I need to watch more games

[Dave DaButcher]

Watch on YouTube

Confidence rising

Whoa! I wish he didn't get injured. Knicks fans seen to love him. I need to watch more games

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[DaGawd]

Knox will take a season or 2 before yall see "summer league knox" more consistently.. but the skillset is there. He's gaining confidence each and every game. Obviously needs to get a lot stronger (to be expected with a 19 year old foward) so he can absorb contract and finish when he drives and the game is def moving a bit fast for him atm.. but experience will fix that. He's gonna be good

[VCfor3]

Knox will take a season or 2 before yall see "summer league knox" more consistently.. but the skillset is there. He's gaining confidence each and every game. Obviously needs to get a lot stronger (to be expected with a 19 year old foward) so he can absorb contract and finish when he drives and the game is def moving a bit fast for him atm.. but experience will fix that. He's gonna be good

What do you think of his motor? I don't remember who, but I saw someone say the kid was extremely talented but that he didn't think he'd maximize his potential due to an inconsistent motor.

[DaGawd]

Knox will take a season or 2 before yall see "summer league knox" more consistently.. but the skillset is there. He's gaining confidence each and every game. Obviously needs to get a lot stronger (to be expected with a 19 year old foward) so he can absorb contract and finish when he drives and the game is def moving a bit fast for him atm.. but experience will fix that. He's gonna be good

What do you think of his motor? I don't remember who, but I saw someone say the kid was extremely talented but that he didn't think he'd maximize his potential due to an inconsistent motor.

His motor in all honesty isn't an issue imo. He has a laid back demeanor and his facial expression never really changes most of the game but I see a kid who wants and seeks to be great. Heck just last night he missed something like 3 straight fts and you could see the pure disgusted he had in himself and he had to be calmed a bit by fellow rookie Mitchell Robinson before he sobered up and hit 4th attempt. Little things like that show me the kid has a desire in him to be better.

[VCfor3]

Knox will take a season or 2 before yall see "summer league knox" more consistently.. but the skillset is there. He's gaining confidence each and every game. Obviously needs to get a lot stronger (to be expected with a 19 year old foward) so he can absorb contract and finish when he drives and the game is def moving a bit fast for him atm.. but experience will fix that. He's gonna be good

What do you think of his motor? I don't remember who, but I saw someone say the kid was extremely talented but that he didn't think he'd maximize his potential due to an inconsistent motor.

His motor in all honesty isn't an issue imo. He has a laid back demeanor and his facial expression never really changes most of the game but I see a kid who wants and seeks to be great. Heck just last night he missed something like 3 straight fts and you could see the pure disgusted he had in himself and he had to be calmed a bit by fellow rookie Mitchell Robinson before he sobered up and hit 4th attempt. Little things like that show me the kid has a desire in him to be better.

Appreciate the info and glad he has the drive. Looking forward to seeing how he develops.