Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

[shakes0]

When people see the word altered in relation to pathogens, their mind delves into a DaVinci rabbit hole where this was all meticulously planned by a mastermind organization or government. I'm no virologist, but the subject is very complicated. Last page I said there were hundreds of strains of coronavirus found in a cave in China, but it's more like there's thousands of ingredients that can end up coalescing and mixing into something worse, such as COVID19. From my understanding, altering could just be mixing the strains with others to see how it functions and works, it doesn't mean it was nefarious and developed to be some sort of bioweapon.

I would say the most likely scenario is that the lab had substandard safety protocols and someone got the virus due to lab negligence. Then China spent significant time covering it up and burying evidence because they didn't want to look bad in terms of how they run these labs. Doesn't have to be intentional to be nefarious. How China acted after the virus got out is the nefarious part of the equation and what caused a world wide pandemic to be unleashed.

[bidde]

That HIV stuff is pure conspiracy theory.

Not according to multiple published papers that were silenced, despite being from reputable sources. It's not pure conspiracy theory, it's plausible but not proven. As I said, I'm 50/50 on that.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Which papers have been "silenced"? What do you mean by silenced? What was the actual information presented in those papers?

[molepharmer]

HIV-1 did not contribute to the 2019-nCoV genome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7033698/
"...This clearly shows that these insertion sequences are widely present in living organisms including viruses, but not HIV-1 specific...."

[dhsilv2]

Yet nobody has said that. Go dig up the last few threads. I've said all along it's far more likely it was originally a bat strain. The only thing I question is the HIV protein inserts reports. Was it modified to make human transmission way easier?

Even if this is not the case, and we agree it was 100% naturally evolved, it's still coming out of the lab. Therefore people who were burned down as conspiracy theorists for saying this may be the case deserve an apology. As I posted above, even CNN is starting to backpeddle after their disinformation campaign.

We may never know for sure. We do know it's plausible now. Scientists literally went into wet markets and interviewed locals and the locals said bats aren't eaten there. That's not conclusive proof, but when you factor that horseshoe bats live FAR away, it's not likely a legit food source.

If it came out of a lab it could just have easily happened naturally. And thus while it is an interesting story, there's not much more to it. The reason why the press shuts this stuff down is because it leads people to think it was manipulated and that's what caused it. That's the concern and that's what they want to avoid becoming a thing. Also news tend to want to wait for FACTS before they start letting things spread. As actual facts come, then we can reasonably discuss things that are outside the box and make sure to discuss them as reasonably as possible.

I'm crying with laughter at the news usually wanting to wait for facts. Yes, this explains the million retractions they've made over the years for jumping the gun.

They put out stories 24 hours a day 7 days a week and their budgets keep getting cut because good journalism isn't profitable. So sure the rush meaningless stories out and get facts wrong. That doesn't mean they don't try and do their jobs...

[Swish1906]

From my understanding, altering could just be mixing the strains with others to see how it functions and works, it doesn't mean it was nefarious and developed to be some sort of bioweapon.

Agreed, and great point.

Which is quite possible. Remember China isn't the only one doing it. Many countries are experimenting with it. Thing is these other countries have far more competent and secure labs. I don't think personally that China PURPOSELY did it. That would be one hell of a charge to decimate their own people. I think they were playing with dangerous **** without proper safety and patient zero walked out of that lab with it.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Now you are just pulling out crap trying to "prove" your point.

And btw im since long time at the point where i dont care what "US officials" telling. They also told that the Iraq has WMDs. So they blew their credibility long time ago.

I start to maybe believe this China lab stuff when the sources comes from Switzerland, Norway...whatever country that has no political agenda here.

To the mods: i would like that the thread doesnt get killed with such agenda posts and the proves are twitter accounts with "multiple sauces with US officials". The last 1-2 pages are a trainwreck

[Kabookalu]

When people see the word altered in relation to pathogens, their mind delves into a DaVinci rabbit hole where this was all meticulously planned by a mastermind organization or government. I'm no virologist, but the subject is very complicated. Last page I said there were hundreds of strains of coronavirus found in a cave in China, but it's more like there's thousands of ingredients that can end up coalescing and mixing into something worse, such as COVID19. From my understanding, altering could just be mixing the strains with others to see how it functions and works, it doesn't mean it was nefarious and developed to be some sort of bioweapon.

I would say the most likely scenario is that the lab had substandard safety protocols and someone got the virus due to lab negligence. Then China spent significant time covering it up and burying evidence because they didn't want to look bad in terms of how they run these labs. Doesn't have to be intentional to be nefarious. How China acted after the virus got out is the nefarious part of the equation and what caused a world wide pandemic to be unleashed.

It's already well established how poorly the CCP has handled this. No one's ever denied that they're covering something up. Though there's a difference between trying to hide how incompetent they are, and "purposely" making coronavirus easier to transmit to humans.

[Zenzibar]

2 months ago I presented the theory to some friends/colleagues that it was made in a lab in Wuhan and got dismissed and laughed at (simply because that's not what was being preached to them on MSM).

Watch on YouTube

But let's not dismiss that it could have been made here. In any event, it was made SOMEWHERE, and this practice alone sheds a light on how devious war in general is.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Agreed, and great point.

Which is quite possible. Remember China isn't the only one doing it. Many countries are experimenting with it. Thing is these other countries have far more competent and secure labs. I don't think personally that China PURPOSELY did it. That would be one hell of a charge to decimate their own people. I think they were playing with dangerous **** without proper safety and patient zero walked out of that lab with it.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Now you are just pulling out crap trying to "prove" your point.

And btw im since long time at the point where i dont care what "US officials" telling. They also told that the Iraq has WMDs. So they blew their credibility long time ago.

I start to maybe believe this China lab stuff when the sources comes from Switzerland, Norway...whatever country that has no political agenda here.

To the mods: i would like that the thread doesnt get killed with such agenda posts and the proves are twitter accounts with "multiple sauces with US officials". The last 1-2 pages are a trainwreck

Multiple countries are indeed experimenting with serious infectious disease, including multiple SARS strains. You can easily look it up with a quick search. This includes the USA.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

[HotRocks34]

Here's an article in Nature from 2017 about the Wuhan lab (or one of them, there may be two, I think). Some intriguing stuff in the piece, looking at the situation now.

https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487

Some scientists outside China worry about pathogens escaping (from the lab), and the addition of a biological dimension to geopolitical tensions between China and other nations

...

But worries surround the Chinese lab, too. The SARS virus has escaped from high-level containment facilities in Beijing multiple times, notes Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University in Piscataway, New Jersey. Tim Trevan, founder of CHROME Biosafety and Biosecurity Consulting in Damascus, Maryland, says that an open culture is important to keeping BSL-4 labs safe, and he questions how easy this will be in China, where society emphasizes hierarchy. “Diversity of viewpoint, flat structures where everyone feels free to speak up and openness of information are important,” he says.

[azcatz11]

Anyone know what time Trump is going to announce the new guidelines?

[Swish1906]

Which is quite possible. Remember China isn't the only one doing it. Many countries are experimenting with it. Thing is these other countries have far more competent and secure labs. I don't think personally that China PURPOSELY did it. That would be one hell of a charge to decimate their own people. I think they were playing with dangerous **** without proper safety and patient zero walked out of that lab with it.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Now you are just pulling out crap trying to "prove" your point.

And btw im since long time at the point where i dont care what "US officials" telling. They also told that the Iraq has WMDs. So they blew their credibility long time ago.

I start to maybe believe this China lab stuff when the sources comes from Switzerland, Norway...whatever country that has no political agenda here.

To the mods: i would like that the thread doesnt get killed with such agenda posts and the proves are twitter accounts with "multiple sauces with US officials". The last 1-2 pages are a trainwreck

Multiple countries are indeed experimenting with serious infectious disease, including multiple SARS strains. You can easily look it up with a quick search. This includes the USA.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Of course a lot of countries are running such labs, thats not a secret.

I was talking about your "fact" that china labs are less competent and secure. Thats pure (and biased) speculations

[OkcSinceSGA]

Now you are just pulling out crap trying to "prove" your point.

And btw im since long time at the point where i dont care what "US officials" telling. They also told that the Iraq has WMDs. So they blew their credibility long time ago.

I start to maybe believe this China lab stuff when the sources comes from Switzerland, Norway...whatever country that has no political agenda here.

To the mods: i would like that the thread doesnt get killed with such agenda posts and the proves are twitter accounts with "multiple sauces with US officials". The last 1-2 pages are a trainwreck

Multiple countries are indeed experimenting with serious infectious disease, including multiple SARS strains. You can easily look it up with a quick search. This includes the USA.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Of course a lot of countries are running such labs, thats not a secret.

I was talking about your "fact" that china labs are less competent and secure. Thats pure (and biased) speculations

I misunderstood what you were questioning. Again, there have been multiple warnings about this facility over the last five years , and it's the only one known of its kind in China. So I'm more referring to this one specifically , just speaking more generally.

[Whole Truth]

From the timing of the outbreak to it's discriminating nature, I believe this is an intelligent Virus.

Looking at current World issues -

Climate change - Virus has shut down factories & emissions, skies are noticeably clearer & the Earth has reportedly stopped vibrating.

Pensions, Medicare & pop control - Virus demographic is the old, preconditioned & weak.

Trade war - economic downturn due to shut down was the only hope Biden had or it was 4 more years.

To my last point of belief. WHO tells Trump it would be racist to close the border to China, while they & China hide the fact that this was person to person transmitted with Media jumping on Trumps response & handling of it, which gives the appearance of a coordinated setup.

Finally - Politicians line their pockets & interest with the stimulus

Kings & pawns.

[Kabookalu]

From the timing of the outbreak to it's discriminating nature, I believe this is an intelligent Virus.

Looking at current World issues -

Climate change - Virus has shut down factories & emissions, skies are noticeably clearer & the Earth has reportedly stopped vibrating.

Pensions, Medicare & pop control - Virus demographic is the old, preconditioned & weak.

Trade war - economic downturn due to shut down was the only hope Biden had or it was 4 more years.

To my last point of belief. WHO tells Trump it would be racist to close the border to China, while they & China hide the fact that this was person to person transmitted with Media jumping on Trumps response & handling of it, which gives the appearance of a coordinated setup.

Finally - Politicians line their pockets & interest with the stimulus

Kings & pawns.

I really hope you're joking. This is nuttier than anything Clipsfansince98 has said.

[MrGrim]

From the timing of the outbreak to it's discriminating nature, I believe this is an intelligent Virus.

Looking at current World issues -

Climate change - Virus has shut down factories & emissions, skies are noticeably clearer & the Earth has reportedly stopped vibrating.

Pensions, Medicare & pop control - Virus demographic is the old, preconditioned & weak.

Trade war - economic downturn due to shut down was the only hope Biden had or it was 4 more years.

To my last point of belief. WHO tells Trump it would be racist to close the border to China, while they & China hide the fact that this was person to person transmitted with Media jumping on Trumps response & handling of it, which gives the appearance of a coordinated setup.

Finally - Politicians line their pockets & interest with the stimulus

Kings & pawns.

So wait, the virus has a mind and wants Joe Biden to win and to stop global warming?

[HotRocks34]

More research on the general topic of "lab released virus fears." This is from 2014. Kind of makes you wonder why some of these labs exist. This is a technical article so just want to pull some highlights.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4128296/
"The Consequences of a Lab Escape of a Potential Pandemic Pathogen"

Now is the time to address the next critical question: what is the likelihood that one of these (potentially pandemic) viruses will escape from a lab and seed the very pandemic the researchers claim they are trying to prevent? As we shall estimate, that probability could be as high as 27%, a risk too dangerous to live with.

...

The risk of a man-made pandemic from a lab escape is not hypothetical. Lab escapes of high-consequence pathogens resulting in transmission beyond lab personnel have occurred. The historical record reveals lab-originated outbreaks and deaths due to the causative agents of the 1977 pandemic flu, smallpox escapes in Great Britain, Venezuelan equine encephalitis in 1995, SARS outbreaks after the SARS epidemic, and foot and mouth disease in the UK in 2007. Ironically, these labs were working with pathogens to prevent the very outbreaks that they ultimately caused.

...

Do benefits outweigh risks? Those who support PPP experiments either believe the probability of PPP escape is infinitesimal or the benefits in preventing a pandemic are great enough to justify the risk. In making decisions for what lines of research will lead to new knowledge, experts must rely on intuition honed by years of research in a particular field. In the case of this PPP research, in our opinion it would take extraordinary benefits and significant reduction of risk via extraordinary biosafety measures to correct such a massive overbalance of highly uncertain benefits to too-likely risks (Wain-Hobson, 2013).

Summary:
- Significant chance that a deadly virus can break out of these high-level bio labs
- Such instances have happened before, and caused havoc
- Researchers have been warning about this kind of thing for years


So this isn't just about Wuhan lab, it's all of this kind of lab that has risks. It just might be the Wuhan lab that was the possible 'leaker' this time around.

[Doug_12]

2 months ago I presented the theory to some friends/colleagues that it was made in a lab in Wuhan and got dismissed and laughed at (simply because that's not what was being preached to them on MSM).

Watch on YouTube

I stopped watching this after like the fourth minute...
What happened until that point: Dr Francis Boyle - professor of law - states that there is a BSL 4 lab in Wuhan. In BSL 4 labs biological warfare weapons can be made. So the coronavirus must have been made there.

That's basically an archetypical example of false argument. It also doesn't help that he doesn't have any relation to the field of virology, medicine or even to biology itself...

[Whole Truth]

From the timing of the outbreak to it's discriminating nature, I believe this is an intelligent Virus.

Looking at current World issues -

Climate change - Virus has shut down factories & emissions, skies are noticeably clearer & the Earth has reportedly stopped vibrating.

Pensions, Medicare & pop control - Virus demographic is the old, preconditioned & weak.

Trade war - economic downturn due to shut down was the only hope Biden had or it was 4 more years.

To my last point of belief. WHO tells Trump it would be racist to close the border to China, while they & China hide the fact that this was person to person transmitted with Media jumping on Trumps response & handling of it, which gives the appearance of a coordinated setup.

Finally - Politicians line their pockets & interest with the stimulus

Kings & pawns.

So wait, the virus has a mind and wants Joe Biden to win and to stop global warming?

The intelligence of the Virus is it's demographic, it doesn't kill everyone, mostly the old, preconditioned & weak. No where do I say the Virus wants Biden to win. Would love to know how you came to that conclusion.

What I do state is that China supports Biden & would like the trade war to come to an end as a potential reason for releasing it.

[NY 567]

While I don't deny the legitimacy of this virus, what's being done as a response to it is going to be an issue in regards to our freedoms and way of life, and I'm not sure that's acceptable in the long term. Not to mention how many people who are economically suffering over this. I don't think it's alright to give government this kind of power and control over the whole country for a long period of time. It's not a very good precedent to set either. What, are we going to shut down for a year every time something dangerous comes out from here on in? Not an appropriate response. Lives matter, but their needs to be a balance. And I kind of almost want to vomit at the disingenuous nature of these politicians that keep saying that every life is precious and **** like that. People die every day because they couldn't afford treatments, people don't have insurance, we have people on the streets, all kinds of stuff and they don't care about that. But now they care about people? Yeah, I don't trust that.

[Kabookalu]

From the timing of the outbreak to it's discriminating nature, I believe this is an intelligent Virus.

Looking at current World issues -

Climate change - Virus has shut down factories & emissions, skies are noticeably clearer & the Earth has reportedly stopped vibrating.

Pensions, Medicare & pop control - Virus demographic is the old, preconditioned & weak.

Trade war - economic downturn due to shut down was the only hope Biden had or it was 4 more years.

To my last point of belief. WHO tells Trump it would be racist to close the border to China, while they & China hide the fact that this was person to person transmitted with Media jumping on Trumps response & handling of it, which gives the appearance of a coordinated setup.

Finally - Politicians line their pockets & interest with the stimulus

Kings & pawns.

So wait, the virus has a mind and wants Joe Biden to win and to stop global warming?

The intelligence of the Virus is it's demographic, it doesn't kill everyone, mostly the old, preconditioned & weak. No where do I say the Virus wants Biden to win. Would love to know how you came to that conclusion.

What I do state is that China supports Biden & would like the trade war to come to an end as a potential reason for releasing it.

Lots of things kill the old, preconditioned, and weak, because you know, they're old, preconditioned, and weak. It'd be more of a headliner if perfectly health young adults were dying from this at a high rate.

Would love to hear your explanations of why China would want to ravage Italy.